BLM - Will you boo ?

[Tuerto]

I actually think it’s doing a good job still as it makes people who would never give societal racism a second thought and helps raise awareness of being anti racist among those same people, especially among kids and will help normalise it.

I don’t think it has anywhere near the same emptiness as the NHS did.

People have given up on the NHS one quite quickly-Drakeford has messed with peoples booze!

[Tuerto]

You can even see it on here with everyone’s attitude towards it, everyone understands it and you can see everyone wants more anti racism.

You’re never going to change the opinion of the racists but if you can just make those of us of never think about it recognise it you’ll go a long way towards removing it as much as possible.

Some people ****ing hate it, they just can't say that, it's pissing them right off. That's enough for me to want it to continue.

[surge]

But would my refusal to kneel automatically brand me a racist?

As someone who is not a supporter of socialist's policy, Does not agree with the practicalities around defunding the police, and believes identity politics is extremely dangerous and does nothing but to further segregate and divide people than bring us together.

I also found it concerning, that while the world was under the strictest lockdown measures, the media and commentators tried to promote a narrative, that the protests of tens of thousands of people shouting in close proximity would not/did not contribute to the consequential covid spikes in the following 1-2 weeks.
In a fantastic paradox of the only thing worse than putting others peoples lives at risk via covid, is racism and therefore protests are justified.

Not sure if I can answer this within a football forum but very quickly:

i) refusal to kneel doesn't make you racist (see photo of Colin Kazim Richards, Derby player, opposing racism in his own way at that very match or Miami Dolphins not wanting to be part of a one minute exercise without any change happening afterwards) just as taking the knee doesn't make you anti-racist (there will be some racists choosing to take the knee but demonstrating racist views when cameras have been switched off so threat to their reputations has lessened) - what else are you doing around this?

ii) Defund the Police is recognising that police funding in America is often a huge part of a state's budget but is akin to the mindset that reaction is better than seeking proactive solutions: if drug addiction causes crime a police officer (budget protected) coming to arrest an addict time after time, as they become a repeat offender, is a waste of money if a drug supporting group (budget cut) can stop that person from acting as an addict would. At the same time, systemic racism within USA police means threat of police being called can be weaponised against minorities as seen earlier this year in clip of white woman being asked to put dog on the leash. Of course the party of law and order will want to make it sound as if defunding the police (spreading the funding around rather than constantly giving huge money to a broken system) is such a scary proposition. Abolishing the police seems to be a radical position, defunding it is just a performance review.

iii) not sure anyone said BLM protests was covid-neutral, though there some marches managed to do fantastic work with social distancing/mask wearing/self-isolation afterwards. Just that it couldn't be stopped due to strong emotions involved, was more important than going to the beach and less dangerous than baseless conspiracy theories protesting/attending political rallies as we have also seen. We're in a similar position now where Christmas is being protected even though that's not covid-neutral either.

The quoted post from earlier in this thread is telling you BLM is scary and radical and I'm not because of our natural political positions. At the moment, it hasn't been fully defined because it's such a loosely formed movement of people where only the basic anti-racist message is fully known. Almost definitely, football players aren't thinking about anything more than anti-racist message and the strong emotions they felt earlier this year and Millwall fans aren't thinking about the coalition of people they're joining.

[chris lee]

I think defund the police gets more negative press than it deserves too. Firstly it doesn’t really apply in the U.K. but the way the police is funded isn’t like the US.

And even BLM don’t want to completely get rid of the police more divert a lot of the funds to areas that will help prevent crime rather than just sending the police to deal with every issue.

I agree with you, while I used it as a critic in my 'alternative view' post. the De-funding the police has a lot of credibility to it, the idea of moving resources away from treating the symptoms of underfunded social welfare, and into actually funding support mechanisms is a good idea, and one I personally support.

[chris lee]

Not sure if I can answer this within a football forum but very quickly:

i) refusal to kneel doesn't make you racist (see photo of Colin Kazim Richards, Derby player, opposing racism in his own way at that very match or Miami Dolphins not wanting to be part of a one minute exercise without any change happening afterwards) just as taking the knee doesn't make you anti-racist (there will be some racists choosing to take the knee but demonstrating racist views when cameras have been switched off so threat to their reputations has lessened) - what else are you doing around this?

ii) Defund the Police is recognising that police funding in America is often a huge part of a state's budget but is akin to the mindset that reaction is better than seeking proactive solutions: if drug addiction causes crime a police officer (budget protected) coming to arrest an addict time after time, as they become a repeat offender, is a waste of money if a drug supporting group (budget cut) can stop that person from acting as an addict would. At the same time, systemic racism within USA police means threat of police being called can be weaponised against minorities as seen earlier this year in clip of white woman being asked to put dog on the leash. Of course the party of law and order will want to make it sound as if defunding the police (spreading the funding around rather than constantly giving huge money to a broken system) is such a scary proposition. Abolishing the police seems to be a radical position, defunding it is just a performance review.

iii) not sure anyone said BLM protests was covid-neutral, though there some marches managed to do fantastic work with social distancing/mask wearing/self-isolation afterwards. Just that it couldn't be stopped due to strong emotions involved, was more important than going to the beach and less dangerous than baseless conspiracy theories protesting/attending political rallies as we have also seen. We're in a similar position now where Christmas is being protected even though that's not covid-neutral either.

The quoted post from earlier in this thread is telling you BLM is scary and radical and I'm not because of our natural political positions. At the moment, it hasn't been fully defined because it's such a loosely formed movement of people where only the basic anti-racist message is fully known. Almost definitely, football players aren't thinking about anything more than anti-racist message and the strong emotions they felt earlier this year and Millwall fans aren't thinking about the coalition of people they're joining.

good reply, agree with all that

I also think that British policing could benefit from a change in mindset in regards to Drug use, de-criminalize it all, and put the huge savings from policing / incarceration and income from tax receipts into re-habilitation and research.

[Dorcus]

Trying to associate the kneeling to politics is a dog whistle.

Racism isn't political, so by trying to make it political certain people can hide behind BS excuses like "free speech" and scream "how dare you attack my political opinion, you Marxist!". They want a way to not be held accountable for their racism. It's why they rail against so called "cancel culture" when it used to be called being held accountable for your actions.

The last few years of Trump, Brexit et al has shown people how to be a c*nt in public and get away with it.

Great post in my opinion and absolutely spot on. The right wing do this all the time. They can't show themselves to be closet racists so they try to conflate the issue with something else and mentioning Marxism is like a red rag to a bull for some people, so it works.

To be honest if some of these people who claim not to be racists say they will not support it because of its supposed links to a Marxist movement that's totally a red herring. The focus of the gesture is to spread the message that discrimination is evil and its main purpose is the education of the young.

If the message can be got across to forthcoming generations that black people are of equal status to whites and treating them differently is wrong then discrimination may become as socially unacceptable as drink driving.

[ToTaL ITK]

https://time.com/5903453/marcus-rash...-food-poverty/

are you going to boo him ?

[I'll give you the Malky!!]

Some really interesting comments thanks - given some on the other forum have (unsurprisingly) said they will boo when they return and actually support the Millwall fans (Millwall !!!), might have to give it a miss when we return.

I remember when I first started supporting City I couldn't see a time where I would take my kids down, but that was 79/80 and a different world. My lad wants to go down this season but it must be said I wouldnt want to put him through that from his own support.

Cheers all ��

[NYCBlue]

Does it need to be pointed out again that the players taking a knee has NOTHING to do with BLM?

[celticknight]

Does it need to be pointed out again that the players taking a knee has NOTHING to do with BLM?

This morning you had Tory cabinet minister George Eustice saying as BLM "are a political movement" the Millwall fans were entitled to boo. The Right will make BLM entirely a political thing if it's the last thing they'll do.

Can't wait until the Tories say that Homophobia and Misogyny are also "political opinions" and therefore you have to respect people who have those views.

[Croesy Blue]

This morning you had Tory cabinet minister George Eustice saying as BLM "are a political movement" the Millwall fans were entitled to boo. The Right will make BLM entirely a political thing if it's the last thing they'll do.

Can't wait until the Tories say that Homophobia and Misogyny are also "political opinions" and therefore you have to respect people who have those views.

They would too, bunch of disingenuous bastards.

He was UKIP and now Tory, says everything.

[J R Hartley]

Who would have thought Nigel Farage and Julia Hartley Brewer (no relation) would have such a keen interest in Millwall FC and it’s supporters

[jeepster]

Who would have thought Nigel Farage and Julia Hartley Brewer (no relation) would have such a keen interest in Millwall FC and it’s supporters

It does not surpise at all

[Eric Cartman]

Does it need to be pointed out again that the players taking a knee has NOTHING to do with BLM?

'anymore', it certainly did at the start, they had it written on their shirts.. Dion Dublin conflated the two things just yesterday when talking about the Millwall yobbos too.

[Eric Cartman]

This morning you had Tory cabinet minister George Eustice saying as BLM "are a political movement" the Millwall fans were entitled to boo. The Right will make BLM entirely a political thing if it's the last thing they'll do.

Can't wait until the Tories say that Homophobia and Misogyny are also "political opinions" and therefore you have to respect people who have those views.

Well how else can they defend Boris 'tank top bum boys' and 'watermelon smiles' Johnson?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Is the current practice of 'taking the knee' in place until the end of the season?

[the other bob wilson]

Four out of about fifty five voting voting yes I see, that equates to something like 170 in a crowd of 2,000 - the trouble is it would only need a small proportion of that minority to start booing for Cardiff City to be the subject of the same sort of headlines Millwall have been getting.

[Hilts]

Four out of about fifty five voting voting yes I see, that equates to something like 170 in a crowd of 2,000 - the trouble is it would only need a small proportion of that minority to start booing for Cardiff City to be the subject of the same sort of headlines Millwall have been getting.

Ive never thought of giving up watching the club. I really dont think I would want to be part of a club that reacted like that on Saturday. I think that would be it for me.

[Rjk]

Four out of about fifty five voting voting yes I see, that equates to something like 170 in a crowd of 2,000 - the trouble is it would only need a small proportion of that minority to start booing for Cardiff City to be the subject of the same sort of headlines Millwall have been getting.

I think after the negative press that Millwall have received there would be a few reluctant to actually voice their opinions in the ground even if they're happy to do so on an anonymous poll on here (and I notice than none of the 4 on here have owned up to it), and that there would probably be quite a few in the ground prepared to tell the booers to shut up.

I also am aware that if the same poll was posted on another message board the result might be quite different.

[BLUEAWAY]

[QUOTE=I'll give you the Malky!!;5142636]BLM - Will you boo kneeling when we're back ?

Yes
No
LFW

No I wouldn’t boo and I support the BLM ethos but I do question how long this is is going to go on for. There are many good causes to support and far too many atrocities to denounce. It must come to an end at some point and somebody has to be brave enough to make that happen.

[BLUEAWAY]

Why do you think it will get stale, and what are you basing your opinion on? it's not a marketing ploy, maybe what you're saying is that it will start annoying a certain demographic a bit more, the longer it goes on-Racism doesn't stop, can't see why taking the knee has to.

Arguably BLM should evelove to be more inclusive such as Racism Must Stop or go even further to Bigotry must stop.

[goats]

Interesting what Simon Jordan is saying about millwall fans now on TS.

[goats]

He reckons they see it as kick back, using football as a tool for other people’s agendas and not using football for a political message? Says he grew up in that area so know the fans and area well.....

[Croesy Blue]

He reckons they see it as kick back, using football as a tool for other people’s agendas and not using football for a political message? Says he grew up in that area so know the fans and area well.....

What is the agenda though? Don't be racist?

What has the word come to when don't be racist is a political message?

People who conflate the taking a knee and the phrase black lives matter with the political motivations of a minority were always looking for an excuse to be against it.

[goats]

Sure it’s a very complex thing, not saying I agree with him in any way. Reckons they were booing the method of delivery, the messaging etc...they’ve voted for a black player of the year 5 times in last 10 he says. Have a listen