Open letter to Mark Drakeford

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

There is absolutely no evidence that covid spreads at outdoor sports events, if properly controlled with attendance limits, no away fans, masks and social distancing. Add no alcohol sales and no gatherings in hospitality areas and its a no brainer. People are panicking unnesscessarily. A 2000 crowd in a stadium that holds 33000 is a no risk operation in my opinion. If you are at the game and people start gathering nearby - just move away. I am on the shielding list and wouldn't hesitate to go, if I had the opportunity. At the end of the day, it is my responsibility to keep myself safe and I believe I am quite capable of doing it. If people don't want to take the ‘risk’ thats fine but why should everyone else suffer.

You seem fairly bright but I am afraid the human species on the whole is thick as feck , its ok saying you are taking things responsibly but what if 100 idiots out of 2000 fans are gormless clowns ?

[dandywarhol]

Dear Mr Drakeford ???????????

Dear Mister Drakeford play us a tune
Something to make us all happy
Do anything take us out of this gloom
Sing a song, play guitar
Make it snappy

[xsnaggle]

You should be critical of the UK government because that is why Wales' numbers are where they are.

Oh I see. When it's bad it's the fault of the UK government and when it'd good in Wales it is because of the actions of the Welsh government. But when it's bad in Wales it is not the fault of the Welsh Government

All I said was that everything they have done hasn't done much good as we have the worst figures in the UK. I didn't suggest they should do less or more or different, just that despite everything we are still in the shit.

This is supposed to be a time to put aside party politics but you wouldn't know it on here.

[The Lone Gunman]

People don't have to socialise at home. People surely know by now how the virus spreads, right? They surely aren't so selfish, right? TLG incoming to tell us that walking outside is depressing so is only left with option of not socialising at all and all the negatives that brings about.

TLG incoming to tell you to go and **** yourself, you smug ****.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

In health matters there is no uk government. Health is fully devolved, so this one lies firmly at Drakefords door. If he had followed the England lockdown and tier plan Wales would now have falling cases and fans back at sporting events. He followed his own route to make a name for himself and it is failing miserably. A two week lockdown was totally useless and he claims to follow medical/scientific advice but every expert I have heard was telling him that a minimum four weeks lockdown is needed to suppress cases enough.

Health might be devolved, but it is still starved of money due to Welsh government funding.

I think you'll find it was more that England followed our lockdown. When Wales announced the firebreak lockdown, England weren't interested and, further more, refused to pay for furlough in Wales when it was their responsibility.

The two week lockdown was useless. I suspect in a couple of weeks the 4 week lockdown in England will be seen in a similar way. Short term gain, nothing achieved longer term.

All the evidence suggests that cases start rising around a fortnight after a lockdown. In Wales, it wasn't a strong enough lockdown. In England, it wasn't a total lockdown like throughout the spring. All these brief partial lockdowns are achieving is a small reduction in order to prevent cases spiralling out of control. There is no interest any more (I don't believe anyway) of Westminster, Senedd, Stormont or Holyrood wanting significant decreases in Covid rates. It's more of a nip and tuck effort to prevent the rate going out of control and overwhelming the NHS.

I read recently that hospitals are, overall, slightly less occupied than a year ago. I take that as a positive that Covid patients don't need as much care, but it also shows that the seasonal flu outbreak is significantly reduced due to social distancing and other measures to prevent Covid.

Overall I've tried not to blame any parties or countries too much. I've generally been in favour of any efforts to stop the virus spreading. These are unprecedented times and politicians are trying what they think is right. I was critical of Westminster for not closing the country down earlier back in March. I was critical of them for not having an earlier lockdown this autumn. I was critical of the Welsh government for not locking down for longer and I believe they should stop schools immediately and not return until next year. The rest, things like going to pubs, going to sporting events, are much less important to me. All health matters.

[Croesy Blue]

Oh I see. When it's bad it's the fault of the UK government and when it'd good in Wales it is because of the actions of the Welsh government. But when it's bad in Wales it is not the fault of the Welsh Government

All I said was that everything they have done hasn't done much good as we have the worst figures in the UK. I didn't suggest they should do less or more or different, just that despite everything we are still in the shit.

This is supposed to be a time to put aside party politics but you wouldn't know it on here.

Well wales wanted to do a longer lock down but couldn’t because the U.K. government wouldn’t extend furlough and said there wasn’t need for another lockdown so wales had to go with the firebreak.

The welsh government are far from perfect but surely you can see that furlough not being extended completely ****ed them?

[Vindec]

Well wales wanted to do a longer lock down but couldn’t because the U.K. government wouldn’t extend furlough and said there wasn’t need for another lockdown so wales had to go with the firebreak.

The welsh government are far from perfect but surely you can see that furlough not being extended completely ****ed them?

What completely f----d them was the fact that Wales decided to follow any course but that followed in England. Drakeford started and ended the firebreak knowing there would be no furlough extension so the Welsh Government should accept the consequences of their actions.

XSnaggle's post is entirely correct. Very few could deny things have gone very wrong in Wales with the worst figures in the UK and responsibility for that rests with the Welsh government.

[Vindec]

You seem fairly bright but I am afraid the human species on the whole is thick as feck , its ok saying you are taking things responsibly but what if 100 idiots out of 2000 fans are gormless clowns ?

I'm with Sludge here. Attending football matches goes way beyond sitting in the stands watching a match. The very fact a match takes place involves people travelling on public transport, eating out and other associated activities with attending outdoor events. While most people act responsibly, many don't and that is one of the main reasons for the virus to spread.

[Croesy Blue]

What completely f----d them was the fact that Wales decided to follow any course but that followed in England. Drakeford started and ended the firebreak knowing there would be no furlough extension so the Welsh Government should accept the consequences of their actions.

XSnaggle's post is entirely correct. Very few could deny things have gone very wrong in Wales with the worst figures in the UK and responsibility for that rests with the Welsh government.

Yeah but if Furlough had been in place they'd have locked down for longer, the two week fire break wasn't long enough.

I think it's been handled appallingly in the whole of the UK and the biggest issue is no joined up thinking.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

What completely f----d them was the fact that Wales decided to follow any course but that followed in England. Drakeford started and ended the firebreak knowing there would be no furlough extension so the Welsh Government should accept the consequences of their actions.

XSnaggle's post is entirely correct. Very few could deny things have gone very wrong in Wales with the worst figures in the UK and responsibility for that rests with the Welsh government.

I wonder what the picture will look like in England in 4 weeks? I'm going to predict much the same as here.

It's not rocket science. The only method that has been most successful in reducing Covid cases has been an entire shutdown. Little, short lockdowns have limited effect and things are back to square one within a couple of weeks after restrictions are lifted. That's why, for me, it's not the time for petty political point scoring. I'm as anti-Tory as anyone but haven't seen the point in trying to score cheap points looking at things in hindsight simply because this is such an unprecedented situation.

[Croesy Blue]

I wonder what the picture will look like in England in 4 weeks? I'm going to predict much the same as here.

It's not rocket science. The only method that has been most successful in reducing Covid cases has been an entire shutdown. Little, short lockdowns have limited effect and things are back to square one within a couple of weeks after restrictions are lifted. That's why, for me, it's not the time for petty political point scoring. I'm as anti-Tory as anyone but haven't seen the point in trying to score cheap points looking at things in hindsight simply because this is such an unprecedented situation.

I agree the whole it's an unprecedented situation that's difficult to handle and there's no need for point scoring. But Wales wouldn't be the worst in the UK if they'd been able to do the 4 week lockdown they wanted to do.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Yeah but if Furlough had been in place they'd have locked down for longer, the two week fire break wasn't long enough.

I think it's been handled appallingly in the whole of the UK and the biggest issue is no joined up thinking.

I agree. It has demonstrated, for me at least, that there isn't a one size fits all solution for the different countries in the UK.

[The Lone Gunman]

I agree the whole it's an unprecedented situation that's difficult to handle and there's no need for point scoring. But Wales wouldn't be the worst in the UK if they'd been able to do the 4 week lockdown they wanted to do.

Where does the notion that Wales wanted a four week lockdown come from?

[The Lone Gunman]

I agree. It has demonstrated, for me at least, that there isn't a one size fits all solution for the different countries in the UK.

But there apparently is a one size fits all solution for the whole of Wales....

[xsnaggle]

I think in reality that the Chancellor didn't say "I won't extend the furlough" he said "I can't extend the furlough" indicating that the legislation or order that set it up made no allowance for the civil servants running it to change the parameters just for a small part of the UK population.
Then when they decided to extend it for all of UK it covered all 4 nations. Drakeford knew that and he also knew the difference between 'can't' and 'won't' but chose in his public statements to infer the latter when in fact what had been said was the former. I recall thinking at the time that that was a purely political action.

[Croesy Blue]

Where does the notion that Wales wanted a four week lockdown come from?

It was discussed at the time, I'm sure you can find something about it if you google

[xsnaggle]

Then you haven't been paying attention to what is happening, the characters of the two, the parties they lead etc. Each nation within the UK has clearly got different things wrong and right so not going to be dragged into that but Drakeford is recognised as being intelligent, he knows the detail, but unexciting and perhaps overly-cautious. That might describe someone the polar opposite of Boris in personality but "knows the detail" means he's not just thinking about doing the opposite when making a decision.

Drakeford's got a character?
When will he show it to the people?

[ccfcwelshlad]

https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/news...ement-08122020

Further statement. I must admit every time I see "Club Statement" pop up on NewsNow I wonder what the hell has happened now.

[Vindec]

I wonder what the picture will look like in England in 4 weeks? I'm going to predict much the same as here.

It's not rocket science. The only method that has been most successful in reducing Covid cases has been an entire shutdown. Little, short lockdowns have limited effect and things are back to square one within a couple of weeks after restrictions are lifted. That's why, for me, it's not the time for petty political point scoring. I'm as anti-Tory as anyone but haven't seen the point in trying to score cheap points looking at things in hindsight simply because this is such an unprecedented situation.

This is not a political point; it's far too important for that. I was merely responding to the point made by Croeso that the appalling situation in Wales was the fault of the UK government for not extending furlough payments to cater for the Welsh government's actions and agreeing with the points made in xsnaggle's post.

[Croesy Blue]

I think in reality that the Chancellor didn't say "I won't extend the furlough" he said "I can't extend the furlough" indicating that the legislation or order that set it up made no allowance for the civil servants running it to change the parameters just for a small part of the UK population.

With mental gymnastics like this you could get an olympic gold

[Croesy Blue]

This is not a political point; it's far too important for that. I was merely responding to the point made by Croeso that the appalling situation in Wales was the fault of the UK government for not extending furlough payments to cater for the Welsh government's actions and agreeing with the points made in xsnaggle's post.

The appalling situation in Wales isn't completely the fault of the uk Government but the fact Wales only had a 2 week lock down is partly because of them.

All 4 devolved governments have done a shite job by always reacting too late, but the one thing Wales got right was not long enough because the furlough scheme wasn't available.

[The Lone Gunman]

It was discussed at the time, I'm sure you can find something about it if you google

No, I've tried and found nothing. I think you're indulging in wishful thinking.

When the firebreak lockdown was announced, Drakeford said: "The Technical Advisory Group's paper has recommended a two to three week hard firebreak to bring the R rate below 1 in order to both lessen the impact and slow the growth of the epidemic in Wales."

The paper itself said: "Over a fortnight's break, two weeks of growth could be exchanged for two weeks of decay in transmission, assuming good adherence to the measures and no additional increase in contacts before or after the break. This could put the epidemic back by approximately 28 days or more."

Drakeford and Co were determined that the firebreak would last no longer than a fortnight come what may, and repeatedly stated as much, including when the Westminster government announced it was implementing a four-week lockdown.

[The Lone Gunman]

The appalling situation in Wales isn't completely the fault of the uk Government but the fact Wales only had a 2 week lock down is partly because of them.

You're going to have to provide some evidence of that if you're going to continue to make that claim.

[Croesy Blue]

No, I've tried and found nothing. I think you're indulging in wishful thinking.

When the firebreak lockdown was announced, Drakeford said: "The Technical Advisory Group's paper has recommended a two to three week hard firebreak to bring the R rate below 1 in order to both lessen the impact and slow the growth of the epidemic in Wales."

The paper itself said: "Over a fortnight's break, two weeks of growth could be exchanged for two weeks of decay in transmission, assuming good adherence to the measures and no additional increase in contacts before or after the break. This could put the epidemic back by approximately 28 days or more."

Drakeford and Co were determined that the firebreak would last no longer than a fortnight come what may, and repeatedly stated as much, including when the Westminster government announced it was implementing a four-week lockdown.

I could be wrong I just remember at the time it being a talking point and why the short firebreak was being considered.

Let's be honest the whole thing has been handled terribly but I do have some sympathy with all of the governments handling such an unprecedented situation.

I do think the lack of joined up thinking hasn't helped, I do sometimes think the Welsh and Scottish governments just want to do something different for the sake of it and the pubs open but not serving alcohol is the most senseless of all.

[The Lone Gunman]

I could be wrong I just remember at the time it being a talking point and why the short firebreak was being considered.

I think it became more of a talking point in retrospect when the furlough was extended because of the English lockdown. Apparently, the WAG wrote to Rishi Sunak asking for Welsh businesses to be given early access to the job support scheme but was told this was not possible (Source: Guardian report, 19/10/20).

I don't think they ever intended to make the Welsh 'firebreak' lockdown longer than a fortnight. Indeed, I believe it was a source of pride for Drakeford and his colleagues that they were doing something different based on the advice they'd been given. I think the furlough payments only became an issue after the event, but I don't think access to them would have resulted in a longer lockdown in Wales. I base that opinion on the advice paper the 'firebreak' resulted from (which was relatively straightforward and easy to understand) and everything the First Minister said on the subject.