Is it such an achievement for Wales to have qualified from the group stages?

[G rangetown Blue]

We were the outsiders of the 4 in the group….and the bookies are not often wrong…except in this case…although Switzerland and Italy were much better than us.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

We were the outsiders of the 4 in the group

On what basis?

[surge]

At this tournament we got a positive result against the two sides outside FIFA's top 10 and lost fairly comfortably to the two sides in FIFA's top 10. I'll repeat that worth holding onto Switzerland result seeing as they're meant to be as many as 4 places better than us - it really is our only result in which we defied the rankings - and a side like Switzerland or Denmark are going to be our competition to get to the World Cup.

I do think it's funny how perception of groups changes so dramatically after a tournament is over though. Many people had Turkey down as dark horses to get to later stages of 2020 based presumably on mixture of exciting youth and experienced players who had just won Ligue 1 and good results against France in build up(?) but they're now seen as one of the weakest sides.

I also think those looking too closely at the rankings are missing a good chunk of context. Not only what I said earlier about us specifically but also that so far only Sweden, France and Belgium have overcome the organisational advantage some teams have. Teams like Italy and Netherlands have found it more difficult as soon as they play away.

In hindsight it turned out that Turkey were as good a match-up as Russia in 2016 for us and our primary tactic attacked their primary weakness. We could have got a draw against Italy but they weren't going for it and Denmark exposed that we couldn't make sufficient in-game adjustments when things starting to go against us and we struggle to break teams down once we're losing - the two main reasons we beat Belgium were missing this time.

In some ways there is so much more to be said about this tournament and so much more can be learnt from it compared to 2016. I just don't think anyone is as interested

[surge]

On what basis?

UEFA seedings when drawing the groups.

[splott parker]

The longer this Swiss/French game goes on our result against the Swiss, no matter how it was gained, is looking more and more respectable.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

UEFA seedings when drawing the groups.

That's interesting. I hadn't been aware of this so though thought it was worth looking up.

The seedings were based on how well teams did in qualifying. Wales were 19th best qualifiers. Wales and Sweden were the only countries seeded out of the top 16 but were ranked in UEFA's top 16 at the start of the tournament. This suggests we had a pretty good run since qualification for Euro 2020, culminating in being promoted to Nations League A.

Turkey, on the other hand, had been relegated to Nations League C since qualification and were ranked outside the top 16, despite being seeded 14th.

Another point to all of this, Turkey, Russia and Poland were all sides seeded in the top 16 but were ranked lower in the UEFA rankings than they were seeded. All failed to qualify. Germany and Ukraine were also seeded higher than their rankings at the start of the tournament and both struggled to get through. Wales, Sweden and Denmark (despite the understandable Finland defeat) were seeded lower than their rankings but got through.

I think my point is that seedings are probably less of a guide than the FIFA rankings of each team at the start of the tournament.

[surge]

That's interesting. I hadn't been aware of this so though thought it was worth looking up.

.....

I think my point is that seedings are probably less of a guide than the FIFA rankings of each team at the start of the tournament.

I'd agree with that. Looking at it now and it's clear that Turkey weren't the same side that had beaten France 2-0 and drawn 1-1 away from home in the qualification for Euros 2020 so their FIFA ranking more telling of their current position, especially as they only won one game in the whole of 2020.

I'd agree with Splott Parker's point that tonight's game will show our result against Switzerland in a different light. Like Russia coming out of 2016 and then out of 2018, our perception of opposition teams after tournaments does tend to change quite a bit.

If I'm allowed to add two more things: i) in time we'll come to see playing Italy third as our one advantage in this competition and ii) we've picked up 4 points from opening games of 2016 and 2020. That's a fantastic habit and really says a lot of positive things about the sides we produced.

[splott parker]

I'd agree with that. Looking at it now and it's clear that Turkey weren't the same side that had beaten France 2-0 and drawn 1-1 away from home in the qualification for Euros 2020 so their FIFA ranking more telling of their current position, especially as they only won one game in the whole of 2020.

I'd agree with Splott Parker's point that tonight's game will show our result against Switzerland in a different light. Like Russia coming out of 2016 and then out of 2018, our perception of opposition teams after tournaments does tend to change quite a bit.

If I'm allowed to add two more things: i) in time we'll come to see playing Italy third as our one advantage in this competition and ii) we've picked up 4 points from opening games of 2016 and 2020. That's a fantastic habit and really says a lot of positive things about the sides we produced.

We picked up 3 points from the opening two games in 2016.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I'd agree with that. Looking at it now and it's clear that Turkey weren't the same side that had beaten France 2-0 and drawn 1-1 away from home in the qualification for Euros 2020 so their FIFA ranking more telling of their current position, especially as they only won one game in the whole of 2020.

I'd agree with Splott Parker's point that tonight's game will show our result against Switzerland in a different light. Like Russia coming out of 2016 and then out of 2018, our perception of opposition teams after tournaments does tend to change quite a bit.

If I'm allowed to add two more things: i) in time we'll come to see playing Italy third as our one advantage in this competition and ii) we've picked up 4 points from opening games of 2016 and 2020. That's a fantastic habit and really says a lot of positive things about the sides we produced.

Yes, there are nothing but positives from our Euro performances. It's been amazing!!

[surge]

Yes, there are nothing but positives from our Euro performances. It's been amazing!!

Sarcasm? What have I said to deserve that?

I was disappointed with Denmark game - lack of plan B, showing too much frustration - but much more positive than negative overall when judged on context of it.

For Splott Parker, we won against Slovakia and drew again Switzerland giving us fast start in both tournaments when vitally important.

[splott parker]

Sarcasm? What have I said to deserve that?

I was disappointed with Denmark game - lack of plan B, showing too much frustration - but much more positive than negative overall when judged on context of it.

For Splott Parker, we won against Slovakia and drew again Switzerland giving us fast start in both tournaments when vitally important.

Ah, I read it as we picked up 4 points from the first two games of both tournaments

[Madassa]

Well we got as far as the reigning Euro & World Champs which sounds pretty good to me.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Sarcasm? What have I said to deserve that?

I was disappointed with Denmark game - lack of plan B, showing too much frustration - but much more positive than negative overall when judged on context of it.

For Splott Parker, we won against Slovakia and drew again Switzerland giving us fast start in both tournaments when vitally important.

No sarcasm, honestly. I'm proud of our efforts. We fell short against Denmark. Got a good draw against Switzerland. We can take positives from the tournament, even in defeat.

[LeningradCowboy]

No sarcasm, honestly. I'm proud of our efforts. We fell short against Denmark. Got a good draw against Switzerland. We can take positives from the tournament, even in defeat.

We were very fortunate to draw with Switzerland though. They should have scored three or four against us.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

After tonight, anyone who says no needs their head checking.

[lardy]

Yes, there are nothing but positives from our Euro performances. It's been amazing!!

No sarcasm, honestly. I'm proud of our efforts. We fell short against Denmark. Got a good draw against Switzerland. We can take positives from the tournament, even in defeat.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

They say the same thing.

[cardiff55]

The longer this Swiss/French game goes on our result against the Swiss, no matter how it was gained, is looking more and more respectable.

Yes that draw against the Swiss looks much better now.

[NYCBlue]

I want to know what Croatia do with only 4 million. I guess if there is a focus on a particular sport then anything is possible.

Imagine what Yougoslavia could do. Scary.

[splott parker]

Imagine what Yougoslavia could do. Scary.

And Megoslavia