Reply With Quotethere were poor (relatively) players in 2016 as well.Originally Posted by Bald Barry Bastad
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In the cold light of day we were poor against Switzerland, lost to Italy and Denmark and only beat a poor Turkey.
When you look at the midfield duo of Morrell and Allen it was by far the weakest midfield in the competition. All of Scotland's midfield would make our side.
If we have no one coming through in that area who is of genuine international standard the golden era is well and truly over.
there were poor (relatively) players in 2016 as well.
Morrell played pretty well for us in the qualifiers and the Nations League, but he looked out of his depth at the Euros.
Two of the teams at the Euros went home pointless* and several countries had just one or two points. Maybe some of those teams could have possibly had worse midfield units - not that it matters greatly as a national manager of small countries have a very small pool of players to choose from.
*Turkey, with a population of 82 million were one of the teams that ended up with zero points.
I actually thought Morrell played well against Denmark, one of the few Welsh players who did. Then again, his performances up until that point were dire. I think Vaulks is unlucky not be in there. For me Ramsey and Vaulks should be the centre midfielders. Ramsey is better in midfield than number 10 anyway. He can still arrive late into the box from a midfield role and be a goalscoring danger. His build up play from 10 has always blown hot and cold , whereas when he is deeper he gets on the ball a lot and keeps us ticking over.
The spine of the team was stronger in 2016 though. Chester and Williams were better in 2016 than Mepham and Rodon in 2021. Allen and Ledley were better in 2016 than Allen and Morrell in 2021.
Not a great deal of depth there but I do quite like that they are trying to bring through a lot of the younger players. Most won't make the grade but if any of them do then they will have had good exposure to international football well above that of their peers.
Striker is an area we have also struggled with, Kieffer has done well but other than that we have no one. Personally I'd probably have taken Vaulks, not the best technically but different to the other cms we have and plays at a decent level. Also Hal should have gone for me, played in the PL last season and is a better option than trying to force Ramsey to play like Messi.
Ultimately good experience for the lad but what was the point of taking Colwill, surely for a nation like ours with a limited pool of talent everyone on the plane has to be competing for a spot.
Anyone remember the days when we never qualified for tournaments? Just me?
Yes most of us probably do but what does that matter or do we want to go back to those days?
Ah sorry, didn't realise this thread was going to help our midfield.
I don't think anyone forgets those times, but discussion is healthy and discussion does not mean a taking for granted of qualification or any culture of expectancy.
Ok but I'm not really sure what there is to discuss. The players are either there or they're not. As far as midfield options go, there's Vaulks who could have made it and that's about it.
Something that can be controlled is the next management team. I don't point a finger at Page as he was put into the job pretty much out of the blue, but an experienced manager and tactician would surely have done a better job in the Danish game.
What gets me is that Giggs has clearly identified the issue and has tried to give as much chance as possible to next generation of midfielders but still gets criticised for that.
Morrell and Allen did well in qualifies and Nations League. They're clearly decent players who fit the system and can cope well at international level, including at tournaments, but will be targeted by better opposition and it is a weakness of our team - the first chink in armour to be exposed.
In cold light of day we got a positive result from the teams we faced outside of FIFA's top 10 in the world and struggled against those inside FIFA's top 10.
we could have had Brian Clough in charge and Denmark would have done us
Good side
Actually, scratch that. Each team will have it's strength and less strong points as individuals and will come up with a strategy to win anyway. Wrong to single out individuals when what was exposed was lack of Plan B in the Denmark game and they all did well/well enough in the other games - it's a team sport at this level.
I think you're stating the bleedin' obvious there BBB. Since I first started watching the Welsh side in the 60's, there has always been at least one part of the team that is below the standard required to make a difference at international level.
In the 60's you had Ron and Wyn Davies up top, Mike England in defence but little of note elsewhere. When we had a decent midfield of Yorath, Mahoney and Flynn, there were deficiencies in other parts of the team. For memory, when we had a good attack in Rush and Hughes, coupled with a good defence with Ratcliffe, Southall etc, the midfield wasn't up to much. I may have got my wires crossed with some of the players names, but you get my drift.
All international teams of a middling standard would benefit from strengthening in some areas of the pitch and we are no different. We can be as critical as can be of the midfield, defence or attack but the bottom line is if we don't have better players to bolster the team we go with the current crop and make do. But for me, the last 5 years is as good as it gets and I'm not complaining. In fact it's been a wonderful, uplifting experience.
Wales are probably as strong as they ever have been in the last five years. What has helped matters,as it did with Ireland for a long while,is the availability of Welshmen who weren't born in Wales have two usually English parents but suddenly find a Welsh grandad or grandma hiding away in the attic. Thus finding a big group of Welshmen who don't actually know they are Welsh till they are pulling the shirt on.
No complaints about it just pointing out it is very handy.
Yeah exactly, I think we have to accept that we will have weaknesses. If not, then risk not making the most of what might be the best we'll ever have.
Don't think Morrell played at all well against the Danes.
Run around a lot like a dog chasing a balloon then gave the ball straight back when he eventually got it.
There's a reason why he doesn't get in the Luton team and we saw it on Saturday
Morrell didn’t have a good game at the euros and Allen looked unfit and maybe past it
Ampadu was trying to cover everything due to morrells inability. I actually blame morrell for getting ampadu into trouble. Simply wasn’t doing his job
Ampadu only has himself to blame. Ampadu was just as bad as Morrell in passing to blue shirts.
Morrell clearly isnt good enough but you cant blame him for Ampadu.
On reflection the squad that was picked lacked options and the inclusion of some or all the following may of had an impact:-
Will Vaulks - Coming off one of his best seasons and looks comfortable playing central midfield in the Championship. Seemingly Joe Morrell, Dylan Levitt and Matt Smith all fancied ahead of him. Levitt had a 5 min cameo and Smith did not get any minutes.
Rabbi Matondo - Hot and cold player and I assume Jonny Williams was favoured ahead of him but didn't see any action. Limited Wales to just one player with pace in attack and James was run ragged this tournament.
Brennan Johnson - Coming off a good season in League One and would of provided another option on the wing, Colwill appeared to be there for experience alone.
Tom Lawrence - Minutes were limited for Derby this season but had a good end to the season with 3 goals and 2 assists in his final 8 appearances. Was surprised to see him overlooked considering his experience.
Hal Robson-Kanu - In the event Moore was suspended or injured it left Wales with no centre forward or striker option other than Bale. Tyler Roberts deserved his inclusion but he's not a striker.
Having Allen, Morrell, Smith and Levitt seems like having four players all cut from the same cloth, small stature defensive midfielders - just seemed unnecessary. So losing one or two of them in favour of Vaulks and Robson-Kanu would have helped to offer something different. Plus someone the likes of Matondo instead of Jonny Williams would have insured Wales had the threat to introduce pace onto the pitch off the bench.
Lessons need to be learned going into the world cup qualifying campaign where you hope Wales will galvanize themselves and give a good showing. I doubt they can make top but to beat Czech Republic for 2nd would be a good boost for the team.
That's the way top sport is now and it is not only limited to small nations. The big countries are doing it too if it means they get the best players. Looking at that Swiss side last night, they have quite a few players of Albanian or ex Yugoslavian heritage who's parents/grandparents maybe fled there during the Balkan war.
Laporte has just switched allegiance from France to Spain, Jorginho of Italy....
Got to get an edge where you can. Plus gone are the days of identity being linked to your place of birth. With people moving around for work or better living standards, you may have stronger feeling for the place of your parent's/grandparent's birth rather than the country you happen to live in. With the amount of Welsh people who end up living and working over the border, it makes sense to have an eye on the players born to them and widen the pool.
In relation to Joe Morrell, I must have watched different games to most people as I thought he was great for us in the group stages. Yes he may not be the best midfielder in Europe but he put an absolute shift in and for me, did not look out of place. There were quite a few players who had tough games against Denmark, especially our back four.
I remember the days of Carl Fletcher in our midfield...this crop are next level compared to then!
Something like 80% of the Wales team had come through the age grade squads. Moore aside, we weren't reliant on players finding a Welsh grandparent later on in their life.
It's not about individuals: it's about partnership's, our tactics and how well their tactics expose the less strong parts of our game.
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