Reply With QuoteCan you name a forward thinking manager that would be likely to come to us if offered the chance?Originally Posted by blue lewj
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I have never understood the thinking that it takes longer to build a team to move away from the Warnock style than it did for him to basically rip it up and start again overnight.
Warnock put his stamp on that team from day one and it was evident from his first game. That is what managers with a clear vision do.
The key issue here is wanting to go in a new direction. If the club keep picking like minded managers and not spending much then yes it will take a while.
Pick a forward thinking manager and give him the cash to change it up and he would starrt to do so in the space of a transfer window, as Warnock did.
Long story short, it takes a lot longer to move from long ball, route one football if we keep picking long ball, route one managers to replace the last one.
The first step to changing this will be when the board realise this and put somebody there to at least try going in this new direction. This shouldn't take as long as many feel with the right man in charge.
Can you name a forward thinking manager that would be likely to come to us if offered the chance?
We havent got any cash to give a new manager because of Warnock ffs.
Exactly. As bad a signing as Cornelius was, Warnock consistently wasted money. The club is in survival mode, with loads of others. Wind down expensive contracts, invest in youth, it will take time.
Basically put, we have put two managers in charge since Warnock and still play a very boring style of football.
People seem to excuse the managers since in that they've have had a huge job on to change things up.
I am not sure they've wanted to change things up too much at all which is why it isn't changing too much.
In many ways I think a line should be drawn in the sand here and if the club do genuinely want to go in a new direction then do that 100%. Rip off the plaster as opposed to change it gradually and hoping we suddenly start playing more football and entertaining a bit more as each signing comes in.
Look to play that way and if our midfield or anybody else cannot do that then move them on as soon as possible. There is no point keeping them if they're cleary not up to it.
That is obviously if the club want to move in a new direction. Mehmet has said that they do but what they say and what they do for many are two different things.
Take your pick.
The Jacks just picked a bloke who I think would have come in here and tried to get us trying to play more football straight away.
It isn't a great start for him but the vision your manager has usually dictates the style of football you play.
Let's be honest here. I am not sure that the board and owner know what a style of football is.
So, in your view can we not play with a better style with the current squad? Do players always have to look long than try to play a bit more?
Are you of the school of thought that none of our players can play a more attractive style and can play only Warnockball/route one style? I don't buy into that if I'm honest. I think a lot of the reason our players play a route one style is because that is what they are told to do and have been told to do by three managers in succession.
It is also a question of how we are to work out who can't play a more entertainning style going forward if we don't attempt to do so.
I agree that it should not be as difficult as is made out, particularly as the homegrown players are used to playing a passing style and surely as most other clubs are, then the players we sign should be!
Do people in the ground still groan when someone passes the ball sideways or backwards at 0-0, or 0-1?
I think we have some good footballers in the team, players like Ng for example. Midfield is full of cloggers and ball winners and the only player is 2 stone too fat, and more injury prone than Frank Spencer.
A more attractive style doesn't mean 61% possession by the way. Getting the ball wide, getting players to run at the opposition, getting people out of their seats as one of our wingers tears down the line and crosses from the by-line. The fact is that, if we kick off tonight, Sutton will have a throw-in or goal-kick within 30 seconds. There must be some sort of contract for managers at City because our kick-offs haven't changed at all since the Durban days.
Until the owner, board and in turn the manager they pick know what direction to go in then not much changes.
We get this in place and genuinely want to go in a new direction, as they have told us, then with a new manager with a passing style I think it can change a lot quicker than many believe.
Let's not fool ourselves here. Whether we have money or not we are going to change our style of play a lot quicker with a board that has a clear vision of what that new style is and a manager who proactively looks to deliver that from day one.
Wanting entertaining football and employing route one managers will only see more of the same I'm afraid, regardless of what they tell us we're watching.
As the club is currently set up the style the first team play is actively hampering a change in style rather than helping it along.
Most can see that but the board can't.
A more attractive style also definitely doesn't mean what we have seen under Warnock, Harris and McCarthy either.
If they genuinely think that progression through those three managers is a conscious effort to move in a new direction then the lunatics are most certainly running the asylum.
I don’t think money comes into it - Swansea are hardly rolling in it and plenty of other clubs with limited means (compared to us) seem to be moving away from hoofball.
Exactly this. The money situation is the money situation and won't change.
If you want to try to play more football as a club then they would. If they genuinely do and have picked the last two managers to move from that style and are convinced they would then it is worrying.
You don't employ a plumber to make you a coffee table then scratch your head when he hasn't got a clue how to achieve it. Sad part is Mehmet would call another plumber to resolve the issue.
The other positive of employing a manager with a clear vision that aligned with that of the board would be that we would not waste half as much money because we would get players in who play that style and would compliment the system.
A lot of the money wasted in recent seasons has been due to us buying players to fit into this route one, try to play a bit of football if you can but revert back to long ball tripe hybrid style that we are stuck with.
Then in turn should the manager move on they would have a clear thought of who could come in to continue that style and vision.
If you take what the club say out of the equation and judge it on what they have actually done then you could only argue that they want long ball football. That is if the board understand what each of the last three managers they have picked bring to the table.
I keep on referring to Neil Harris admitting that City reverted to more of a Warnockball approach in November last year and won five out of six straight away, then proceeded to lose the next half a dozen. The apparent move to more of a passing approach was hard to identify and you would be forgiven for thinking that nothing had changed if there wasn't someone telling you that it had. Nevertheless, Neil Harris said he changed things back again and, for me, that means he had given up on trying to play more football because, for whatever reason, the team weren't managing to do what he wanted.
If I had to identify why this was, I'd go for us having too many players in the positions on which a passing approach is founded not being up to the task of "building from the back". If we accept Morrison, Flint and Nelson are our first choice back three, which one would you nominate as the one who plays out from defence in the manner Ryan Bennett was supposed to be doing for the jacks on Saturday? To me, although all three of them can pass the ball well at times, none of them convince me that they could be relied upon to do so to the standard required for such a role. McGuiness may be able to, but it's too early to tell yet and, anyway, I'd want two players in my back three who are more comfortable on the ball than our first choice trio are.
In midfield. Pack can give and take a pass, but has not totally convinced since he's been here, Vaulks is a strange one in that he can deliver "worldy" long balls every now and then, but is an unreliable shorter passer who presents the ball to the opposition too often. Much the same applies to Bacuna who, like Vaulks, has decent technique, but seems unable to apply it consistently when it comes to giving and receiving passes. Ralls is an all rounder for me, who does everything pretty well, but nothing outstandingly and I'm not convinced he's fully over the injury problems he's had for close to two years now. Again, no combination of players within those four convinces me that they could cope well enough with a complete change of approach.
It'd be very risky and it falls into the category of being easy to suggest and harder to achieve, but if the decision was to be made to change to being a passing team overnight, the two central midfielders who fill me with most confidence that they could cope are Bowen and Sang, but, realistically, I don't think any manager would make such a drastic change to both style and personnel now we're into competitive fixtures - the time to do it would be pre season and Sang barely featured in that this year.
In 19/20, there weren't many better number ten type players in the Championship than Tomlin and last season there weren't many better than Wilson, yet I'd watch the two of them in the first half of games they'd started in and they'd barely get a kick. It was in the second halves when oppositions started to tire and concentration began to slip that Tomlin and Wilson really came into their own. I bet Wilson doesn't have the same problem at Fulham this season, because they have defenders and midfielders comfortable enough on the ball to get him involved in dangerous areas in first halves - in my view, we haven't done in the past two years and I can't see us being able to provide the likes of Tomlin, Murphy, Colwill and Giles with enough good possession in first halves with the current first choices in central defence and central midfield..
Swansea have a tiny wage bill now. Ours is enormous. Swansea's was similar last season but now Guehi, Woodman and Ayew have gone.
Warnock inherited a squad that was hard to beat and workmanlike under Slade. Trollope tried to change it but he couldn't, as for a start he isn't a very good manager. Telling Morrison, Ralls, Gunnar, Connolly etc to play Warnock football suited them down to the ground.
Before that, Mackay had made us incredibly hard to beat and disciplined, which is why OGS fell flat on his face. It is much, much harder to train a side to play football than be solid. It is a long process, especially when we've spent 6/7/8 seasons hoofing it up the line.
Also, our squad isn't good enough to do those things. Our midfielders can't play quick, passing moving football. We don't have any wingers either. Our strikers are big, powerful blokes and there is a lack of pace. We will struggle to play passing football with Moore and Collins together. If signings like Wintle come off, then we might be able to. Our best players, bar Moore, are the centre halves and as much as they like to, they can't play. There is a big summer ahead of us in 2022 and it will be very interesting what happens and we have lots of flexibility to do what MM (or whoever is in charge wants), as there are so many players out of contract.
Crucially fanbase also has zero patience, and most will tolerate bad football with results over anything else. If the football is bad and you don't get results, you've got zero positives but most of the managers we've had, have been effective.
Also, and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, we wouldn't be having this discussion if Warnock didn't piss £100m up the wall. Flint, Pack and Vaulks have turned it around, as have a few others but most of them have been abject failures.
The only thing I have zero patience with is this boring, defensive style of football. It is beyond depressing.
So we need to change but nobody wants to change.
We'll get much the same stuff we've had in recent times if it continues.
People talk of Warnock as though he was thrust upon us. Tan and the board picked him, saw evidence of his crap recruitment and gave him more money. They're not exactly blameless in all this.
They're also a self proclaimed transfer committee until we sign a dud and then all fingers point at the manager. You can't have it both ways.
It seems to me that posters are wanting to pass our way to League 1. We haven't the players to play passing football and, as one poster pointed out, as soon as the side start passing the ball the crowd groans and want the ball played into the box. No manager has a chance at this club. People moan about Warnock but he got us from near the bottom of the League to promotion within a very short period. Yes he wasted money but so have other managers with far less success.
In answer to the question posed by the original poster it will take more than time for the club to change its playing style as we simply to not have the players or the crowd to play any other way than we do at present.
To save time I'm going to guess dml's reply.
Surprise surprise he's slagging the club and board off again....blah blah blah...some reference to him being a proper fan and something at the end about me being a Jack.
How fans like him genuinely enjoy this style of football is a complete mystery. It really is.
Well the crowd isn't changing any time soon so that isn't going to happen.
Do you honestly think a crowd that watches a 40 yard lofted long ball in the general direction of our front men will groan if we keep it on the floor and pass short to a blue shirt? Sorry but that is nonsense.
We do not have the players to play a more passing and entertaining style you say. Why are we persisting with them then? Unless of course the club and manager are more than happy with our style.
A year.
Ryan Bennett😂😂
Who from though? I'd be interested in any names you may put forward. I don't watch European football (no Sky and I never have, nor ever will subscribe to it), so haven't a clue to any up and coming young manager out there. Other clubs seem to do well in attracting decent foreign managers/coaches.
I take a great interest in the Championship, Leagues 1 and 2 and the Conference, but haven't come across a decent young current manager further down the leagues who I think would get us playing attractive football AND possibly get us promoted.
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