Revised HS2 Is the government right or wrong?

[ninian opinian]

Yeah they are also spending my money and I think dropping HS2 in favour of various other projects is more beneficial to more people to be honest.

Aye and billions wasted on failed projects on their watch, absolutely scandalous. I wonder which one of their Tory donors, friends and family will benefit from the land purchased compulsory.

Oh but look over there at those migrants and the unemployed.

[Eric Cartman]

Yeah they are also spending my money and I think dropping HS2 in favour of various other projects is more beneficial to more people to be honest.

Beneficial in what way though? I am firmly of the view that government should spend big for a return and that if an infrastructure project is going to lead to economic growth, opportunities and investment then it is a good idea.

HS2 wasn't just about upgrading something for the sake of it, the case for it was made based upon the benefits we would reap as a country and the expansion of opportunity we would see as a result of having a modern high speed railway.

I am sure each community will be happy to see their transport network improved and that is nice but I am yet to see any kind of cost/benefit analysis of any of these 'projects'.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Yeah they are also spending my money and I think dropping HS2 in favour of various other projects is more beneficial to more people to be honest.

Of course you do

The Tories have lied to the people yet again yet even here you can't admit what a disingenuous bunch of tossers they are

Ff sake if you are genuine about sometimes voting other than tory please do so , its incredibly tiresome you coming on here are defending the idiots

[JamesWales]

Aye and billions wasted on failed projects on their watch, absolutely scandalous. I wonder which one of their Tory donors, friends and family will benefit from the land purchased compulsory.

Oh but look over there at those migrants and the unemployed.

Completely unhinged. So now you are annoyed that they didn't scrap it earlier?

[JamesWales]

Beneficial in what way though? I am firmly of the view that government should spend big for a return and that if an infrastructure project is going to lead to economic growth, opportunities and investment then it is a good idea.

HS2 wasn't just about upgrading something for the sake of it, the case for it was made based upon the benefits we would reap as a country and the expansion of opportunity we would see as a result of having a modern high speed railway.

I am sure each community will be happy to see their transport network improved and that is nice but I am yet to see any kind of cost/benefit analysis of any of these 'projects'.

I really don't think there are enormous practical benefits in getting between the two main cittiesi n question that much quicker than there currently is. Whereas connecting people to their own cities for work and leisure is more beneficial economically and esp in terms of quality of life.

[JamesWales]

Of course you do

The Tories have lied to the people yet again yet even here you can't admit what a disingenuous bunch of tossers they are

Ff sake if you are genuine about sometimes voting other than tory please do so , its incredibly tiresome you coming on here are defending the idiots

Well I did say it in this thread months ago and I have never supported HS2.

You'll just moan whatever they did. If only we could plug the trains into your whingebagging we really would have high speed transport. It truly is the infinite renewable source we all need.

[ninian opinian]

Completely unhinged. So now you are annoyed that they didn't scrap it earlier?

I’d rather be unhinged than support a bunch of vile racists who have destroyed the UK.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I’d rather be unhinged than support a bunch of vile racists who have destroyed the UK.

Aye

JW is clearly not a right wing loony or a racist

But he's propping them up

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Well I did say it in this thread months ago and I have never supported HS2.

You'll just moan whatever they did. If only we could plug the trains into your whingebagging we really would have high speed transport. It truly is the infinite renewable source we all need.

Never mind that cobblers

You will be voting tory

As you always have

I don't know of anyone on here who believes you are anything except a blue nose

[JamesWales]

I’d rather be unhinged than support a bunch of vile racists who have destroyed the UK.

Destroyed! Vile! Racist! You are shouting words like that to plug the gaping holes in reality.

In what way is Britain destroyed? In what way is the govt with the most diverse cabinet in history and with high immigration racist? In what way are they vile?

Just ridiculous rants.

[JamesWales]

Never mind that cobblers

You will be voting tory

As you always have

I don't know of anyone on here who believes you are anything except a blue nose

Used to be a member of Respect and a Morning Star reader. I also used to like Postman Pat.

I did vote Labour and Tory in the last local elections though, and have voted Labour far more than Tory, but obviously you know more about that than me!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Destroyed! Vile! Racist! You are shouting words like that to plug the gaping holes in reality.

In what way is Britain destroyed? In what way is the govt with the most diverse cabinet in history and with high immigration racist? In what way are they vile?

Just ridiculous rants.

You are shouting all this diverse cabinet nonsense like a fully paid up tory pr manager

Sunak , Braverman and the other people from minority backgrounds are posh and privileged

They will be dispensed with by the party once they have served their purpose

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Used to be a member of Respect and a Morning Star reader. I also used to like Postman Pat.

I did vote Labour and Tory in the last local elections though, and have voted Labour far more than Tory, but obviously you know more about that than me!

What I do know is that's absoloute cobblers and you must think I have come down in the last shower of rain

Pull the other one

[JamesWales]

You are shouting all this diverse cabinet nonsense like a fully paid up tory pr manager

Sunak , Braverman and the other people from minority backgrounds are posh and privileged

They will be dispensed with by the party once they have served their purpose

Yeah, it's just not true though is it. There's no evidence to back up what you say. You want it to be true, but it's not.

[JamesWales]

What I do know is that's absoloute cobblers and you must think I have come down in the last shower of rain

Pull the other one

Why do you bother following politics if you are just going to have the same opinions for ever? You may as well just switch off, turn up and vote every few years and redirect your anger towards something more positive. Painting or gardening perhaps?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Yeah, it's just not true though is it. There's no evidence to back up what you say. You want it to be true, but it's not.

You just wait

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Why do you bother following politics if you are just going to have the same opinions for ever? You may as well just switch off, turn up and vote every few years and redirect your anger towards something more positive. Painting or gardening perhaps?

I don't waste time with any of this poncing about political debate cobblers

You like that because it gives you the chance to try and show everyone how clever and educated you are

Political debate my arse

[JamesWales]

I don't waste time with any of this poncing about political debate cobblers

You like that because it gives you the chance to try and show everyone how clever and educated you are

Political debate my arse

I assumed I was having a political debate with your arse!

[Swiss Peter]

One of the positives for HS2 was that it would relieve the congestion on the other lines, thus aiding the whole service. Seems like they're going to smarten up the other lines without doing anything about the capacity issues.

Yes, and with that released capacity comes the opportunity to improve suburban and regional services, undertake much needed maintenance on old and decrepit existing infrastructure with less overall disruption, and create more rail freight options. This is often overlooked by those with a strong focus on the time savings on HS2 itself.

It seems to me that there has never been real clarity on the purpose of the project - or if there has, it has not been well communicated. Personally, I get the capacity arguments, but have never been totally convinced by the connectivity/time saving ones.

As for the £36bn to be invested instead, few of these transport projects will be new ideas. Many have been passed from wishlist to wishlist for decades now. I heard Sunak mention, for example, mass transit for Leeds. I worked on securing funding and powers for Leeds Supertram in the early 90s - and the project has been on and off ever since then!. Whether this will now provide the catalyst remains to be seen.

[JamesWales]

Yes, and with that released capacity comes the opportunity to improve suburban and regional services, undertake much needed maintenance on old and decrepit existing infrastructure with less overall disruption, and create more rail freight options. This is often overlooked by those with a strong focus on the time savings on HS2 itself.

It seems to me that there has never been real clarity on the purpose of the project - or if there has, it has not been well communicated. Personally, I get the capacity arguments, but have never been totally convinced by the connectivity/time saving ones.

As for the £36bn to be invested instead, few of these transport projects will be new ideas. Many have been passed from wishlist to wishlist for decades now. I heard Sunak mention, for example, mass transit for Leeds. I worked on securing funding and powers for Leeds Supertram in the early 90s - and the project has been on and off ever since then!. Whether this will now provide the catalyst remains to be seen.

Agree entirely.

It's also worth noting that as overbudget and mismanaged as HS2 has been, we will at least get the London to Birmingham leg done. This will make train travel between the north and south quicker if that is your ambition.

As stated before, I'm really not sure I see the huge benefits in that anyway, and certainly not when the money could be used elsewhere

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Agree entirely.

It's also worth noting that as overbudget and mismanaged as HS2 has been, we will at least get the London to Birmingham leg done. This will make train travel between the north and south quicker if that is your ambition.

As stated before, I'm really not sure I see the huge benefits in that anyway, and certainly not when the money could be used elsewhere

There we go again , old I don't tory letting the tories off the hook .....again

Yeah but no but yeah

It's ironic that you talk about political dogma with regard to those on the left

[JamesWales]

There we go again , old I don't tory letting the tories off the hook .....again

Yeah but no but yeah

It's ironic that you talk about political dogma with regard to those on the left

No Sludge, I just think the money would be better spent on a larger number of smaller transport infrastructure projects rather than going into one big one.

That's all. Nothing to do with party politics.

[Eric Cartman]

I really don't think there are enormous practical benefits in getting between the two main cittiesi n question that much quicker than there currently is. Whereas connecting people to their own cities for work and leisure is more beneficial economically and esp in terms of quality of life.

But this is precisely what I am saying, no analysis. Just you sticking your finger in the air and coming up with a convenient conclusion. There was analysis produced to show the forecast economic and social impact of hs2, you might not think there are benefits in faster connections between cities but smarter people with better methodologies did . Rishi has seemingly announced a load of projects and told everybody how much taxpayer cash will be assigned to each without the necessary checks/balances or consulting local people.

It is the same old story that was clear in your defense of Rwanda and the barge contract, you have no regarded for effective spending of taxpayer money or due process. I have a feeling that in 18 months if we have a different party in government, this might change...

[Eric Cartman]

Why do you bother following politics if you are just going to have the same opinions for ever?

****in hell, the irony.

You are the equivalent of a battered spouse of the Tory party. They have proven themselves to be bullshitters time and time again when announcing grand infrastructure projects and yet you keep on believing.

[Eric Cartman]

No Sludge, I just think the money would be better spent on a larger number of smaller transport infrastructure projects rather than going into one big one.

That's all. Nothing to do with party politics.

Lets allocate 10s of billions of taxpayer cash on 'think' shall we?