When is this spineless answer to Putin going to stop?

[AfricanBluebird]

So Nuclear weapons, whilst being touted as a deterrent, also allow crackpot Dictators to cold bloodily murder thousands of innocent people, and blow buildings to bits, and basically just get away with it, whilst the rest of the world looks on.
What a monster we’ve created!

Exactly and a narrative that often gets left out of these conversations.

Deterrent they are not!

Various disarmament treaties have never gone far enough - INF Treaty (1987) and START I (1991) and START 2 (2003 I think).

Remember that the US withdrew from the INF Treaty in 2019 under president Donald Trump!!

Why have they not resulted in the eradication of nuclear weapons.... in the US the arms industry have lobbied, bribed, lied and cajoled to force the US to keep weapons while Russia.. well, under Putin have always been bad actors.

[goats]

He will stop when he has enough of Ukraine he wants , and slowly but surely we will start to drop away sanctions , and Germany will cozy back up to them for the gas it so desperately needs.

He wins.

I don’t think so, it’s a wake up call for Western Europe, putin is a an arsehole who can’t be reasoned with. A massive mistake by the Germans to be be so reliant on them for Gas etc, I’m not sure where we get ours from but only 5% from Russia. I can see them being frozen out of everything now for years until Putin has gone.

[goats]

And I voted for “regime change” in 2005 in the UK because of what happened in Iraq, I also supported stop the war movements financially and by other methods. I had the chance to those things. Does your typical Russian watching state controlled media and banned from using websites which portray a differing view have the chance to do the same? So I resent some sanctimonious Russian preaching to me about not supporting the actions taken by his country in the interests of “denazifying” Ukraine - what a sick word that is coming from the mouth of the modern day Hitler.

Even more worse as Zelensky has family who were killed by the nazi regime apparently….putin accusing him of being part of a regime that killed his own family ffs. How low can he go? We always here about these tough Russians that can take anything, where are they now? They know what’s really going on by now….time to rise up

[the other bob wilson]

Even more worse as Zelensky has family who were killed by the nazi regime apparently….putin accusing him of being part of a regime that killed his own family ffs. How low can he go? We always here about these tough Russians that can take anything, where are they now? They know what’s really going on by now….time to rise up

They’re shelling nuclear energy plants now

[Grangenders]

Unfortunately this thing is going to run and run. Until Putin is somehow removed from power then we need to prepare for years of this turmoil. The Article 5 of NATO is all well and good but if the Americans get cold feet and don’t want to get involved in another European war then Putin has the whole continent in his pocket.

[goats]

Unfortunately this thing is going to run and run. Until Putin is somehow removed from power then we need to prepare for years of this turmoil. The Article 5 of NATO is all well and good but if the Americans get cold feet and don’t want to get involved in another European war then Putin has the whole continent in his pocket.

If Putin steps into another country we will have a huge war, no question about it. I think behind the scenes, moves to take him out will be underway from now on….

[Monster munch]

If Putin steps into another country we will have a huge war, no question about it. I think behind the scenes, moves to take him out will be underway from now on….

Absolutely. Putin knows this though and i very much doubt his plan is to go for Latvia, Lithuania or Estonia because they are in Nato (As much as he'd like to). Its as if he's been given free reign of Ukraine.
Although Moldova and Georgia are getting very sweaty as they aren't part of it so wouldn't surprise me if he goes for them next depending how this turns out.

[Monster munch]

Unfortunately this thing is going to run and run. Until Putin is somehow removed from power then we need to prepare for years of this turmoil. The Article 5 of NATO is all well and good but if the Americans get cold feet and don’t want to get involved in another European war then Putin has the whole continent in his pocket.

Uncle Sam would never get cold feet when it comes to the Russkies. It'll take just one russian renegade or soldier to enter, assault, fire a gun or fart in a Nato country and the yanks will be all bets in, pummelling Russian territory with cruise missiles. I wonder how many attack submarines are currently in the Baltic sea at the moment doing laps with itchy trigger fingers.
That's what i'm scared of the most.

[AfricanBluebird]

He also mentions uncomfortable reminders about all those freedom and democracy loving bombs that rained down on Libya, Serbia, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan by NATO and its member countries.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/GAH7af5xe3Qp/

Thing is... most on here, as thoughtful and intelligent adults can hold a number of conflicting opinions at the same time....

NATO has been pretty useless for 20 years, overreached and provide protectionism to larger member states to continue to control oil and infrastructure - BUT still offers some protection to members so sovereign states have every right to join, or not.

We can be critical (I have and continue to be) of our own governments who 'rained down bombs on Libya, Serbia, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan' by NATO and its member countries' and STILL be critical of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

We can also be critical and cynical of our own governments and NATO's lack of response in Yemen and other countries and still see Russia as a bad actor under Putin.

We can also all acknowledge that we have failed for years to counter Russia's misbehaviour - funding of terrorists, appeasing bad actors, funding misinformation, buying political favours, laundering money and poisoning people on British soil.

All of the above positions can be true and coexist in our minds. We don't have to appease Russia's behaviour because our governments have also acted badly.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Absolutely. Putin knows this though and i very much doubt his plan is to go for Latvia, Lithuania or Estonia because they are in Nato (As much as he'd like to). Its as if he's been given free reign of Ukraine.
Although Moldova and Georgia are getting very sweaty as they aren't part of it so wouldn't surprise me if he goes for them next depending how this turns out.

Both Moldova and Georgia have areas of their countries under Russian control/influence and which are off-limits to the two governments within whose boundaries they fall.

[Gofer Blue]

Is it possible that the reason the infamous column of tanks/artillery north of Kiev is not moving is not that there is a problem with it per se but rather that why should Putin risk losing thousands more Russian troops when he can first destroy the city as he has done in the south of Ukraine, and probably the morale of the people, using long range weapons like rockets and missiles? The fact that this is mass murder of civilians presumably doesn't concern him.

[Gofer Blue]

African Bluebird - I have sent you a PM.

[Raymond Holt]

We can also be critical and cynical of our own governments and NATO's lack of response in Yemen and other countries and still see Russia as a bad actor under Putin.

We can also all acknowledge that we have failed for years to counter Russia's misbehaviour - funding of terrorists, appeasing bad actors, funding misinformation, buying political favours, laundering money and poisoning people on British soil.

All of the above positions can be true and coexist in our minds. We don't have to appease Russia's behaviour because our governments have also acted badly.

Agree with the jist of your post and much of what you've said. But if NATO responded to the conflict in Yemen they'd be fighting themselves. The UK trains Saudi pilots and BAE has thousands of staff there maintaining the Saudi aircraft's weaponry.

https://questions-statements.parliam...21-06-04/10169

It seems we are also funding our own "information" campaigns in states surrounding Russia:

https://declassifieduk.org/uk-spends...around-russia/

[JamesWales]

Crazily the world's two largest air forces are the US Air Force and the US Navy. Obviously if you're lumping them into one country Russia is second though

Someone is being paid by Hollywood to promote the forthcoming Top Gun film.

[blue matt]

Exactly and a narrative that often gets left out of these conversations.

Deterrent they are not!

Various disarmament treaties have never gone far enough - INF Treaty (1987) and START I (1991) and START 2 (2003 I think).

Remember that the US withdrew from the INF Treaty in 2019 under president Donald Trump!!

Why have they not resulted in the eradication of nuclear weapons.... in the US the arms industry have lobbied, bribed, lied and cajoled to force the US to keep weapons while Russia.. well, under Putin have always been bad actors.

The Trouble with disarmament treaties is that ALL parties need to abide by it, and with Russia thats never going to happen, so why run the risk of us, france and the USA disarming and leaving ourselves open to Russia ? ? ? he wouldn't be stopping at the Ukrainian border if he was the only one holding the button for Nukes, it'll be, free pass or I'm pressing it

so in that aspect it is a deterrent

[jon1959]

Thing is... most on here, as thoughtful and intelligent adults can hold a number of conflicting opinions at the same time....

NATO has been pretty useless for 20 years, overreached and provide protectionism to larger member states to continue to control oil and infrastructure - BUT still offers some protection to members so sovereign states have every right to join, or not.

We can be critical (I have and continue to be) of our own governments who 'rained down bombs on Libya, Serbia, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan' by NATO and its member countries' and STILL be critical of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

We can also be critical and cynical of our own governments and NATO's lack of response in Yemen and other countries and still see Russia as a bad actor under Putin.

We can also all acknowledge that we have failed for years to counter Russia's misbehaviour - funding of terrorists, appeasing bad actors, funding misinformation, buying political favours, laundering money and poisoning people on British soil.

All of the above positions can be true and coexist in our minds. We don't have to appease Russia's behaviour because our governments have also acted badly.

Good post.

[Wales-Bales]

US Senator call for assassination

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/...74209567199235

[chrisp_1927]

Looks like the majority of the anti tank weapons promised to Ukraine by Germany won't be turning up. They're all knackered, and the wooden boxes they are stored in are so rotten that protective suits are needed to enter the warehouse they are stored in.

[Swiss Peter]

Looks like the majority of the anti tank weapons promised to Ukraine by Germany won't be turning up. They're all knackered, and the wooden boxes they are stored in are so rotten that protective suits are needed to enter the warehouse they are stored in.

Hi Chris. Do you have a link for this please?

[Dorcus]

If Putin steps into another country we will have a huge war, no question about it. I think behind the scenes, moves to take him out will be underway from now on….

I think this is nearest to the truth. NATO would love to get engaged against the Russians but knows it would be suicide to do so. The most realistic, though hugely challenging, option would be to assassinate Putin.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if round the clock meetings are being held throughout the West trying to formulate a strategy to do so. The problem the West have got is that if it's executed by any one of them it becomes a declaration of war. It would have to be organized in such a way that it would be executed by a Russian citizen without the West being a smoking gun.

[stan butler]

Looks like the majority of the anti tank weapons promised to Ukraine by Germany won't be turning up. They're all knackered, and the wooden boxes they are stored in are so rotten that protective suits are needed to enter the warehouse they are stored in.

Or maybe just a cover story

[Dorcus]

Or maybe just a cover story

Good point Stan

[Organ Morgan.]

And I voted for “regime change” in 2005 in the UK because of what happened in Iraq, I also supported stop the war movements financially and by other methods. I had the chance to those things. Does your typical Russian watching state controlled media and banned from using websites which portray a differing view have the chance to do the same? So I resent some sanctimonious Russian preaching to me about not supporting the actions taken by his country in the interests of “denazifying” Ukraine - what a sick word that is coming from the mouth of the modern day Hitler.

I also found his delivery annoying.

The Nazi element in Ukraine he spoke of is real enough. Their Azov Battalion, who parade with flags based on the swastika symbol have also been pictured with German WW2 ones, is a bona fide element of Ukraine's military as anyone can confirm themselves with simple internet searches.

The premise of Ivan's monologue was challenging the 'crocodile tears' of the media. Which I believe has merit because I don't recall the leaders of those countries whose armed services they ordered to pulverise the states he mentioned being portrayed as some kind of demented, bloodthirsty monsters as Putin seems to be non-stop (and then slavishly repeated as some comments in this thread indicate).

What I recall was a media eager to excuse the wholesale slaughter of civilians on the back of them being perfectly acceptable pre-emptive strikes, collateral damage and the like.

[Rjk]

This is a six-minute video of an English-speaking Russian who has an entirely different perspective on what's happening in Ukraine today and why. He also mentions uncomfortable reminders about all those freedom and democracy loving bombs that rained down on Libya, Serbia, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan by NATO and its member countries.

A Little insight into the "Russian invasion". Warning: This isn't mainstream. https://www.bitchute.com/video/GAH7af5xe3Qp/

That's clearly the Russian line on things, but I wouldn't give it much creedence.

The guy's overall tone is very annoying and it was hard work to get to the end without turning it off.

This Wikipedia article gives a bit more background into the conflict,which has been brewing for years now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War

It is clearly all about keeping Ukraine within the Russian sphere of influence whether they want to be or not.

[delmbox]

Someone is being paid by Hollywood to promote the forthcoming Top Gun film.

I don't need to be paid, I absolutely LOVE Top Gun