Tory MP hounded off campus for describing women as adult human females.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Hatred and harm in a country that is recognised as a tolerant and inclusive one .


When does this moaning end ?

There's a far bit of hatred just on this board with" kill the tories" and other vile comments.

It seems to me folk have a lot of hatred spouted from keyboards.

We await your reaction if your daughter walked into your living room with an unnaturally-born Uk boyfriend with some interest!

[life on mars]

It seems one of the alleged trans protest Zahawi faced was the son Yvette Cooper and Ed Balls they chanted transphobe' and 'Tory scum'

He was heckled for his views on trans , he then sits down to cheers from Labour activists , the question was it trans protest , Tory scum protest , an attack on free free speech , one may never know or want to know .

Labour has a real issue with this subject matter and I do think they need tom tread careful as a lot of women do consider themselves as adult human females.

[cyril evans awaydays]

It seems one of the alleged trans protest Zahawi faced was the son Yvette Cooper and Ed Balls they chanted transphobe' and 'Tory scum'

He was heckled for his views on trans , he then sits down to cheers from Labour activists , the question was it trans protest , Tory scum protest , an attack on free free speech , one may never know or want to know .

Labour has a real issue with this subject matter and I do think they need tom tread careful as a lot of women do consider themselves as adult human females.

I would think an overwhelming majority of adult human females don't think that prostitutes get the easiest money ever as you did today either. Respect though!

[HiVis]

So you think I’d believe someone on here who said “kill the socialists”?

So we can brush off hate speech if we think it's not really against a group that have traditionally been targeted.

What do you think the families of Jo Cox and David Amess would make of such comments?

[HiVis]

It seems one of the alleged trans protest Zahawi faced was the son Yvette Cooper and Ed Balls they chanted transphobe' and 'Tory scum'

He was heckled for his views on trans , he then sits down to cheers from Labour activists , the question was it trans protest , Tory scum protest , an attack on free free speech , one may never know or want to know .

Labour has a real issue with this subject matter and I do think they need tom tread careful as a lot of women do consider themselves as adult human females.

I've read this several times and I'm none the wiser on the point you're trying to make.

[cyril evans awaydays]

I've read this several times and I'm none the wiser on the point you're trying to make.

In fairness I was the same with Joyce's Ulysses and some think it's a literary masterpiece so I wouldn't immediately think this is drunken rambling nonsense out of hand!

[HiVis]

In fairness I was the same with Joyce's Ulysses and some think it's a literary masterpiece so I wouldn't immediately think this is drunken rambling nonsense out of hand!

Thats a deep burn, straight to the crematorium

[the other bob wilson]

So we can brush off hate speech if we think it's not really against a group that have traditionally been targeted.

What do you think the families of Jo Cox and David Amess would make of such comments?

I wouldn’t class the term the “kill the Tories” as used in the context it was in the instance I was referring to as hate speech, it was ironic and came from someone who comes across a Tory to me.

[cyril evans awaydays]

I wouldn’t class the term the “kill the Tories” as used in the context it was in the instance I was referring to as hate speech, it was ironic and came from someone who comes across a Tory to me.

tbf fBob. You're on the wrong side of this one. I know it was a quip after a troll's post but in the spirit of the day, it's time to move on!

[delmbox]

My point is that people who do judge on whether someone votes Labour, Tory, Leave, Remain etc are wrong to do so

And my question is what does this etc refer to being that you respect everybody's opinions? where's the cutoff?

[the other bob wilson]

tbf fBob. You're on the wrong side of this one. I know it was a quip after a troll's post but in the spirit of the day, it's time to move on!

Yeah, I'll move on even though I still don't really get what the dry cleaning man is trying to say - he's too obtuse for me.

[HiVis]

Yeah, I'll move on even though I still don't really get what the dry cleaning man is trying to say - he's too obtuse for me.

What I'm getting at is that hate speech is hate speech, irrespective of who the target of that hate is. Suggesting that it is ok to post "Kill All Tories" just because you personally dislike the Tories is ironic, given your stance on just about every other type of hate.

Irrespective of my families life choices, they are still my family and I wouldn't disown them if they chose to follow a certain path. Jon1959's approach is sickening, and his hatred of the right is pretty obvious. This hatred shown by the far left is no different to the loose cannons on the right and the bile they spout.

Cyril Evans Awaydays, as always, is the voice of reason so as he suggests, there's no point dwelling further. We clearly define hate differently and nothing each of us adds is likely to convince the other to think differently.

[jon1959]

What I'm getting at is that hate speech is hate speech, irrespective of who the target of that hate is. Suggesting that it is ok to post "Kill All Tories" just because you personally dislike the Tories is ironic, given your stance on just about every other type of hate.

Irrespective of my families life choices, they are still my family and I wouldn't disown them if they chose to follow a certain path. Jon1959's approach is sickening, and his hatred of the right is pretty obvious. This hatred shown by the far left is no different to the loose cannons on the right and the bile they spout.

Cyril Evans Awaydays, as always, is the voice of reason so as he suggests, there's no point dwelling further. We clearly define hate differently and nothing each of us adds is likely to convince the other to think differently.

My approach 'is sickening'? Really. Wow.

I haven't described an approach. I have never said I would 'disown' family or friends who cuddled up with right wing Tories. I even said I respected some Tories! I did say I dislike the values that underpin Toryism and their policies - and in many instances I think they are selfish and destructive. But this was in response to a story that 30% of Labour voters (approx 4 million UK citizens) would be upset if a close family member embraced the Tories (can't remember now if that was marrying a Tory or becoming one). 'Upset' is a personal emotion that I said I understood and that I shared that view. It is about how someone feels - not how they act. After decades pounding the streets canvassing or campaigning, I would be very pissed off (aka upset) if a close friend or relative that I thought shared my views jumped ship to the other side.

Yes I hate right wing politics (imperialism, racism, sexism, small state individualism, privatisation, 'no such thing as society', ethnic cleansing in Palestine, brutal land grabs in Ukraine... and the rest) and I am intolerant of it. You and James make a virtue out of tolerance. From what I can make out James draws the line at what is illegal but is happy to tolerate everything short of that. Not sure where your line is?

James also quickly moved from denouncing intolerance to redefining it as bigotry with a definition that rests on someone being 'obstinately or unreasonably' antagonistic to people who are members of a particular group. As usual James is the arbiter of what is reasonable.

Tolerance of views and actions that may be legal but morally wrong (and we all have our own morality I know) is what sickens me. Most of us would not tolerate fascist and white supremacist views (although a few outliers on this board would) but my tolerance does not extend to much of the Tory and some of the Blairite Labour agenda and the people and values that enabled that - from the Gulf War to the Windrush scandal to honours for donors.

Tolerance should have its limits.

[the other bob wilson]

What I'm getting at is that hate speech is hate speech, irrespective of who the target of that hate is. Suggesting that it is ok to post "Kill All Tories" just because you personally dislike the Tories is ironic, given your stance on just about every other type of hate.

Irrespective of my families life choices, they are still my family and I wouldn't disown them if they chose to follow a certain path. Jon1959's approach is sickening, and his hatred of the right is pretty obvious. This hatred shown by the far left is no different to the loose cannons on the right and the bile they spout.

Cyril Evans Awaydays, as always, is the voice of reason so as he suggests, there's no point dwelling further. We clearly define hate differently and nothing each of us adds is likely to convince the other to think differently.

Thanks, now I understand where you're coming from and, to an extent, I agree. However, with the specific example I'm talking about, the only person saying "kill all tories" I'm aware of is, based on what he's posted in the past, a tory himself, so, if I'm right about his politics, I don't get how it can be taken to be hate speech in the manner you're referring to.

[HiVis]

My approach 'is sickening'? Really. Wow.
I haven't described an approach. I have never said I would 'disown' family or friends who cuddled up with right wing Tories.

you posted this earlier in the thread. Whilst you state you would most likely maintain a relationship, the inference is that there is a possibility you may not. Now perhaps this is not what you mean, in which case you need to take better care of your phrasing.

I would probably maintain my relationship and argue with them constantly. But for you and others to be offended by someone in that situation being upset (an emotion) is very disturbing. Even more so when you label the rejection of reactionary or oppressive views as fascistic! Don’t you have any boundaries?

I even said I respected some Tories! I did say I dislike the values that underpin Toryism and their policies - and in many instances I think they are selfish and destructive. But this was in response to a story that 30% of Labour voters (approx 4 million UK citizens) would be upset if a close family member embraced the Tories (can't remember now if that was marrying a Tory or becoming one). 'Upset' is a personal emotion that I said I understood and that I shared that view. It is about how someone feels - not how they act. After decades pounding the streets canvassing or campaigning, I would be very pissed off (aka upset) if a close friend or relative that I thought shared my views jumped ship to the other side.

This is not something I can understand. People base their opinions on their own life experiences, and over time, your own experiences may differ from your friends/family, which means they adopt a different world view to your own. That doesn't make either you or them bad people just because your own views are no longer perfectly aligned.

Yes I hate right wing politics (imperialism, racism, sexism, small state individualism, privatisation, 'no such thing as society', ethnic cleansing in Palestine, brutal land grabs in Ukraine... and the rest) and I am intolerant of it. You and James make a virtue out of tolerance. From what I can make out James draws the line at what is illegal but is happy to tolerate everything short of that. Not sure where your line is?

most of what you refer to is not unique to the right. And as for tolerance, I've already said I dislike the word and I have no time for people who display tolerance, as that is a grudging acceptance, and not inclusion in its truest sense.

James also quickly moved from denouncing intolerance to redefining it as bigotry with a definition that rests on someone being 'obstinately or unreasonably' antagonistic to people who are members of a particular group. As usual James is the arbiter of what is reasonable.

The irony here really is lost on you.

Tolerance of views and actions that may be legal but morally wrong (and we all have our own morality I know) is what sickens me. Most of us would not tolerate fascist and white supremacist views (although a few outliers on this board would) but my tolerance does not extend to much of the Tory and some of the Blairite Labour agenda and the people and values that enabled that - from the Gulf War to the Windrush scandal to honours for donors.

Are you aware that for the majority, those of the far left are also outliers?

Tolerance should have its limits.

Agreed. but who gets to decide where that limit is? you, or someone else? and what if you disagree with where the limit is set?

[HiVis]

Thanks, now I understand where you're coming from and, to an extent, I agree. However, with the specific example I'm talking about, the only person saying "kill all tories" I'm aware of is, based on what he's posted in the past, a tory himself, so, if I'm right about his politics, I don't get how it can be taken to be hate speech in the manner you're referring to.

[JamesWales]

Eric
Do you think it's normal behaviour to ostracise family member based on who they support / the music they listen to / the party they vote for?

James
What would it take for you to accept Eric's view is as valid as your own ?

Good question. By default, yes Erics view is as valid as my own, of course. I don't agree with his argument as I believe it to be a false equivalence, but his view is as valid.

As to whether someone who would be 'upset' if their daughter married someone because they had voted Tory, again, I have to concede that their view is equally valid. I profoundly disagree with them, feel sorry for them, think they are probably being unfair to their daughter and future son in law and all the rest of it, but I do believe that all opinions are equally valid within the confines of the law.

[HiVis]

Good question. By default, yes Erics view is as valid as my own, of course. I don't agree with his argument as I believe it to be a false equivalence, but his view is as valid.

As to whether someone who would be 'upset' if their daughter married someone because they had voted Tory, again, I have to concede that their view is equally valid. I profoundly disagree with them, feel sorry for them, think they are probably being unfair to their daughter and future son in law and all the rest of it, but I do believe that all opinions are equally valid within the confines of the law.

So if you accept Eric's opinion is valid, why spend half your life trying to change it? This is just not going to happen. Few people ever change their minds in internet threads, yet people from all sides spend their time ramming their point home in the vain hope that someone will acknowledge their own thought process was flawed all along.

[jon1959]

So if you accept Eric's opinion is valid, why spend half your life trying to change it? This is just not going to happen. Few people ever change their minds in internet threads, yet people from all sides spend their time ramming their point home in the vain hope that someone will acknowledge their own thought process was flawed all along.

The irony here really is lost on you.

[JamesWales]

My approach 'is sickening'? Really. Wow.

I haven't described an approach. I have never said I would 'disown' family or friends who cuddled up with right wing Tories. I even said I respected some Tories! I did say I dislike the values that underpin Toryism and their policies - and in many instances I think they are selfish and destructive. But this was in response to a story that 30% of Labour voters (approx 4 million UK citizens) would be upset if a close family member embraced the Tories (can't remember now if that was marrying a Tory or becoming one). 'Upset' is a personal emotion that I said I understood and that I shared that view. It is about how someone feels - not how they act. After decades pounding the streets canvassing or campaigning, I would be very pissed off (aka upset) if a close friend or relative that I thought shared my views jumped ship to the other side.

Yes I hate right wing politics (imperialism, racism, sexism, small state individualism, privatisation, 'no such thing as society', ethnic cleansing in Palestine, brutal land grabs in Ukraine... and the rest) and I am intolerant of it. You and James make a virtue out of tolerance. From what I can make out James draws the line at what is illegal but is happy to tolerate everything short of that. Not sure where your line is?

James also quickly moved from denouncing intolerance to redefining it as bigotry with a definition that rests on someone being 'obstinately or unreasonably' antagonistic to people who are members of a particular group. As usual James is the arbiter of what is reasonable.

Tolerance of views and actions that may be legal but morally wrong (and we all have our own morality I know) is what sickens me. Most of us would not tolerate fascist and white supremacist views (although a few outliers on this board would) but my tolerance does not extend to much of the Tory and some of the Blairite Labour agenda and the people and values that enabled that - from the Gulf War to the Windrush scandal to honours for donors.

Tolerance should have its limits.

Your definition of what counts as right wing politics is questionable in the extreme - all of those things have been committed in the name of the left too. But I suppose understanding the diversity that exists in different opinions and thus why we should tar all people with the same brush because of one characteristic is the root issue here and it seems entirely lost on you.

That aside, you just sound like a bit of an arse here tbh. I'm sure you aren't but you sound it. I feel really sorry for any kid who has a parent kicking off cos they are marrying someone who votes differently to their parents. It's a preposterous and cruel state of affairs. I'm sure that's not you really and in practice you are nicer in person.

[HiVis]

The irony here really is lost on you.

oh don't worry, I'm far too long in the tooth to understand few if any ever change their opinions via internet discourse. And I'm not here to change anyone's mind, nor am I going to try as I'd have better luck trying to push water uphill.

[jon1959]

oh don't worry, I'm far too long in the tooth to understand few if any ever change their opinions via internet discourse. And I'm not here to change anyone's mind, nor am I going to try as I'd have better luck trying to push water uphill.

[jon1959]

As an aside, if Feedback is in the room can he make himself known?

This thread feels like a blast from the past.

[Eric Cartman]

As an aside, if Feedback is in the room can he make himself known?

This thread feels like a blast from the past.

Don't it just.