Interesting that at not any point have you made any consideration for those trying to get here.Originally Posted by JamesWales
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Interesting that at not any point have you made any consideration for those trying to get here.
I perfectly well understand that many people in many parts of the world have undergone a lot of suffering and have every empathy for them. That doesn't mean that anyone who wants to come to the UK is entitled to do that, less still that they do it via payments to criminal gangs that only the wealthiest of them can afford.
Do you think everyone with cancer in the world should be treated on the NHS? I doubt you do, but that doesn't mean you don't have empathy for their situation.
Illegal immigrants are obviously different to asylum seekers that require completely different solutions, yet you bundle them both together. There were 50k asylum seekers last year. That's about a third of the number of people who have come in from the Ukraine and Hong Kong without a whisper. When you started on this quest it was all about ridding the world of traffickers. Still true colours!
I have mentioned criminal gangs, have I not?
Oh good that one is a biggy, so what are the scores on the doors? Just fill in the blanks for me please:
Total Cost now : ___________
Estimated Cost of new policy: ____________
Don't worry, I will be able to work out the saving, A in maths at GCSE me.
How can we possibly know, because as things stand people support an infinite number of people arriving. Cost estimates we have heard are around £5m a day on hotels alone; let alone other issues.
Do you think the country is a bottomless pit?
Conveniently ignoring my ingenious Iceland suggestion. Tsk tsk
Ice tand corrected!
That's a deporting offence on it's own!
One solution. Lengthy jail terms for anyone employing illegal immigrants for cheap labour and take assets.
As for proper immigration why not get them to do the jobs we need. Transport is in chaos due to understaffing. Same with the NHS etc.
We have ridden roughshod all over the world , raping and pillaging
Look at the spread of the commonwealth and the colonies of Spain, France, Belgium etc
No wonder people from Africa and other places fleeing violence or looking for a better life are attracted to the UK and Europe
It's all very well using the cheap labour for the west indies and Asia and Eastern Europe when we need them but if they want to come when times are less prosperous we have to something better than stick em on a plane over to Rwanda
There are plenty of unscrupulous bosses who will happily take on illegal immigrants to save on wages, NI etc. There are opportunities, albeit not nice ones as a rule, for any illegal immigrants who can get into the country. Find a way to stop this illegal underground activity and you'll reduce the numbers coming in illegally.
What we seem to prefer is blaming the immigrants for wanting to come here, it's their fault. It's a bit like being burgled constantly because you've got no doors and piles of cash on display but you blame the burglar
I am not trying to trap you or claim the moral high ground, just a genuine question to clarify what you think as to me, that scenario is inhumane.
Of course I don't think it's good that people are forced to take illegal routes, it's dangerous for them to do so. Illegal migration is a fact of life all over the world, if there was a simple answer, someone else would have done it by now.
You have claimed since the start that this policy is a deterrent, without evidence.
You have claimed since the start that your motivation to support the policy stems from fairness and consideration for the lives of those making the journey, well that doesn't seem to be the case anymore
You have claimed it's good value, without knowing the projected cost.
You still seem to think this is offshore processing, hence the comparison with Australia. Unfortunately no, it's worse. This is a uniquely extreme policy when viewed in the context of international law as it enshrines the idea that the migrants method of entry trump's their strength of claim for asylum.
Finally. You do realise that this often repeated claim that migrants should 'seek asylum in the first safe country they reach' forms no part of international or UK law and is essentially right wing propaganda?
Stop lying James, you have been given a few solutions that would stop people utilising illegal routes. You don't like them because it will likely increase successful asylum claims. The mask has slipped, this isn't about the dangers of illegal crossings or criminal gangs or fairness. It's about numbers.
I think we are just going around in circles here aren't we.
I don't view it as inhumane. You do.
I do have a problem with the current situation. You perhaps do, but less so.
I do think the situation is unfair and completely unsustainable. You perhaps do, but can't come up with an alternative.
I do understand that a country needs to have faith in it's asylum and immigration policies an without it, the system falls apart. You seemingly don't.
No one likes the situation, but there has been around a 10 fold increase in those crossing the channel in 3 years. All of whom have come from a safe country, all of whom have paid thousands to criminals. How do we know that in the next 3 years we don't see a similar rise? What safeguards do you propose? Can the country take everyone that wants to come here?
Again, we are just going around in circles, and I really think you need to rally around an alternative solution (or admit than anyone who wants to come here should be able to) so we can move on cos everyone is bored of it now.
If so your 51 posts in this thread have certainly contributed to that.
51 goes at repeating the same Priti Patel cheerleading song, whilst ignoring or misrepresenting most counter points.
At least you have been part of moving the focus away from Lither and his jack boot analysis. A small mercy!
It was obviously a ploy to show the goons the government were .....serious .....about the issue of migration
It's clearly very dodgy at best
How can you test something that is new?
It's good to see all the candidates in the leadership race support sticking with policy until it works.
Well, this looks good doesn’t it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62566194
1,300 arrived yesterday.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-62644946
Border Force confirm most of them are Albanian. Not a country at war, coming from France, one of the wealthiest on earth. Complete and utter abuse of the system that is costing us millions , not helping those most in need and enriching criminals.
https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1562107747453353990
Gammon porn while energy companies bleed people dry.
If they have no claim to asylum then surely it's easy peasy, just send them back to Albania, or fly them to Rwanda as was your method du jour a few weeks back. Out of interest, how is the deterrent going?
The deterrent isn't going well, because left-wing lawyers have supported them in arguing against their removal.
Interesting to see you support the abuse of our system. Are you making money from it all?
Not that it has anything to do with the abuse of the asylum system but the price of energy is up because Europe is boycotting Russian gas, you plonker.
Why are they "left wing" lawyers James?
Aren't they just lawyers ensuring that the law of the land is adhered to by all, including our government?
Perhaps you prefer our government behaving as it wishes without checks and balances - as long as you agree with the policy obviously.
Not quite "Mr. Nuance" are you!!
Because they are left-wing lawyers Claude.
The Rwanda flights were stopped by a law firm called Duncan Lewis Solicitors. This is them at a Labour event.
https://twitter.com/DuncanLewis/stat...87374042521600
I'm all for checks and balances, less so for the law being exploited by criminals and the country having to support anyone who wants to come, especially through a system designed to help the most needy, not those with the ability to afford to pay
Do you really think that 40% of the most needy in the world are Albanian people coming from France via criminal gangs? Or is there perhaps a better way? Naivity can only cover you so far here.
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