Jeremy Hunt

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

The Tories are cnuts

They didn't provide furlough because they wanted to , it was because there would have been a revolution if they hadn't

Same for the increase in UC , which they dropped as soon as they could

They increased UC because they had to , not because they are philanthropic and like to be kind to those in need

They have a catalogue of being exactly the opposite to vulnerable people over years and years

It's only the work of .....lefty .....pressure groups ....that shames them or the courts step in

They are uncaring bastards and I hope they get absolutely stuffed the next time there is an election .

[HiVis]

I don't wish us to carry on abusing each other in this thread so I just want to question some of your assumptions in a friendly way.

The Tories are about an awful lot more than personal responsibility and much of what they stand against I would steadfastly say is wrong by any definition of ethics.

There's no space nor time here to do any justice to the subject but I'll just pick up on personal responsibility briefly because you raised it.

Surely personal responsibility is fine if you have the luxury of possessing the wherewithal and means to maintain yourself independently. It's a very laudable ideology for the rich to keep to themselves. However the poor, through no fault of their own, need the support and generosity of all because they are denied the means to look after themselves sufficiently. Personally I believe that to promote the small state agenda denies social responsibility and that is evil. The philosophy of I'm allright Jack, bu**er you is selfish, greedy and evil. You may disagree of course.

Your point about parties being subject to change his true to a point but of course if they lose their core, defining beliefs they become different parties. I'm not aware of the Tories ever having altered their core beliefs of aspiration, small state, personal responsibility, wealth hegemony and allegiance to the crown. For all those very reasons I could never vote for them.

I don't think either of us have abused the other Bob...

My take on it all is that personal responsibility is more than just saying I have all this wealth and I'm ok. That is far too simplistic and you're looking at this from a purely monetary viewpoint. There are plenty of people in this world who would be defined as poor, but they don't feel poor as they don't covet material wealth.

As an example, personal responsibility, for me, is knowing that you have to get up in the morning and work. Collective responsibility is knowing that some of the fruits of your labour will be taken in the form of tax and used for the betterment of society as a whole. The two concepts don't have to be strangers, and to suggest otherwise, in my view, is incorrect.

I certainly don't feel that the Tories are about keeping everything for yourself, in the same way Labour aren't about giving the purported feckless free handouts. Both sides look at solving the same problem from different angles. Neither side has the panacea for all ills, with the left sometimes choosing the correct answer, and other times its the rights turn.

[Dorcus]

I don't think either of us have abused the other Bob...

My take on it all is that personal responsibility is more than just saying I have all this wealth and I'm ok. That is far too simplistic and you're looking at this from a purely monetary viewpoint. There are plenty of people in this world who would be defined as poor, but they don't feel poor as they don't covet material wealth.

As an example, personal responsibility, for me, is knowing that you have to get up in the morning and work. Collective responsibility is knowing that some of the fruits of your labour will be taken in the form of tax and used for the betterment of society as a whole. The two concepts don't have to be strangers, and to suggest otherwise, in my view, is incorrect.

I certainly don't feel that the Tories are about keeping everything for yourself, in the same way Labour aren't about giving the purported feckless free handouts. Both sides look at solving the same problem from different angles. Neither side has the panacea for all ills, with the left sometimes choosing the correct answer, and other times its the rights turn.

I'm not Bob, Feedy, lol 👍

[the other bob wilson]

I dont have an issue with anyone who has a set of principles and retains courage in their convictions. The issue I have is with those, such as yourself, who cannot understand how anyone can hold a differing viewpoint to your own.

Everyone you have ever known in your life has a slightly different version of Bob in their mind. Each version is created from their individual experiences of you in life.

People define their principles based on their own life experiences, and your own experiences are no more or less valid than anyone else's. This is how principles are formed.

The way I see it is the left are more for collective responsibility and the right for personal responsibility. Neither are right or wrong and both have their merits and drawbacks. Yet some on either side just cannot see that.

As for never voting for a party. That's a little shortsighted. Do you think the democratic party that enacted Jim Crow is the same party today, or do you think the Republican party of Lincoln is the same today? What about the Liberals who left the Irish to die in the potato famine, preferring Laissez Faire politics?

My point is parties change, and to steadfastly say you'll never support a party when that party may change over time i
Lacks an understanding on how party politics works.

I may have said I don’t know how anyone could vote Conservative at certain times over the past few years (last night being one of them) , but I’ve never thought that in more “normal” times. I could understand how people voted for Thatcher in 1979 and Cameron in 2010 for example.