Reply With QuoteBut this won't happen, they've had 12 years in charge and I've not once as an adult lived through a positive economy.Originally Posted by DryCleaning
But yeah hypothetically if they did they consistently let them stay in charge. But they won't.
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What would you prefer:
the UK improving sufficiently in the next two years whereby the economy improves, inflation reduces, wages rise in real terms, living standards rise in real terms, with the worse off in society being better than they are today, and the Tories winning the next election; or
Things getting worse, especially for those who are at the bottom, but the Tories being removed from power by the people at the next election.
What I am asking is that do you really want to see an improvement to the UK and for the people overall, or are you simply against the Tories and just want them out of office?
It is only a thought experiment, so try and stay within the parameters.
But this won't happen, they've had 12 years in charge and I've not once as an adult lived through a positive economy.
But yeah hypothetically if they did they consistently let them stay in charge. But they won't.
You can't wish poverty and suffering on others just because you want to see a political party beaten, so it has to be the first option for me.
However, the Major Government had largely turned around the economy after Black Wednesday when they were routed in 1997. I'm wary of appearing complacent, but, apparently, all of the historical polling data indicates that Governments don't recover from financial events like the recent mini budget. According to the people who know about these sort of things, the Tories are going to lose whenever the election is held whether they provide the conditions Feedback writes about in his first option or not.
Both are fair answers, thanks for that.
I'd add in to the mix that in the past 12 years we've had the recovery after the financial crash (economies take years to fix themselves so I don't see any kind of Wirtschaftswunder for the UK), Brexit, Covid19 and the war in Ukraine. These are 4 once in a lifetime events we've all experienced so whatever happens, it would be helpful just to get back to mundane and boring.
I think you are right.
My general opinion is that successful countries are those that generally interchange between centre-right govts for 2-3 terms and centre-left govts for the same period. In that sense, the country is ready for a change in government and I think that will happen, although whether that actually changes much I am not sure because as I've mentioned numerous times I think the big issues are not created or easily solved within the country itself.
In the same sense, I think Wales desperately needs a change of govt, even though in that case it would be a movement in the opposite direction to above.
It was the Tories and current PM who caused the mess.
Obviously I want to country to do as well as possible. It affects me and my friends and family if it doesn’t.
Same way I want Brexit to be the spectacular saviour to all our problems despite not voting Leave.
Considering we’re 12 years in, I’m not expecting it to happen mind
Occam's razer would suggest that Sunak is back to finish off the job that he stated.
I'm not sure if i'm allowed to ask this question because I don't 'dislike the Tories' but over the last 12 years have got progressively more angry with the way this particular flock of Tories have governed.
I would prefer the first option without any question. Although "with the worse off in society being better than they are today" is a bit ropey, they couldn't exactly get much worse.
Unfortunately, that won't happen. The reasons it won't happen are precisely the reasons why I don't like this government. And if we're going to do the same things time and time again and expect a different result, then we all know what that is.
Have you noticed it's always the same people who are continuously shuffled around the top jobs? It almost as though they are plotting something behind our backs, and they need to keep the group small in order to control the process.
The Tories being in power and the country having a better economy is not mutually exclusive
Look at the mess it's in at the moment ......Tories in charge......fecking things up
Well you are not getting a change in the welsh government and very likely to get a change from your wonderful Tories 😉
So piss off
It's this bit that makes this a load of bollocks and a pointless loaded question.
Thought experiment? Leave it out.
From a utilitarian perspective, clearly you’d choose a Tory administration and economic health.
But the scenario is a bit wonky. What the ERG Tories are planning is another round of misguided austerity and a bonfire of human and workers’ rights. That means the recession is going to be worse than necessary over the next few years.
It's not even just that, the fair version of the question would be:
Would you take 18 months/2 years of pain to ensure we have a change of government?
My answer to that is unequivocally yes because I think the next 10 will be significantly better without the current conservative party in power. It will also serve to improve the conservative party, hopefully they will cull the extremists and return with a focus on policy rather than bluster. They have dragged politics so far into the gutter over the last 12 years (more so post-brexit) that this needs to happen.
But then he layers on top this bullshit that basically says if you choose that you just hate the Tories and aren't objective.
The reality is we aren't faced with that choice. We are faced with different shades of shit for the next few years.
In short, this thread is nonsense.
there is a famous thought experiment that is used by physicists and psychologists respectively, albeit for different reasons.
If you were too shoot a monkey swinging from a branch with a rifle, should the monkey let go of the branch when the rifle is fired. Physicists use this to explain the concept of gravity and more specifically Newtonian mechanics. Psychologists use this to explain that a monkey wouldn't be able to comprehend what a thought experiment is, and therefore could not provide an answer to a question they could not understand.
its a bit like whitesnake, deep purple and rainbow.
I doubt the ERG have the influence you think they have. The right of the party have had their wings clipped. Suella Braverman has been included to ensure all factions are included in the cabinet, but they won't hold that much influence.
Some things never change.
They are the majority if they want to be.
Exactly. We may as well have a thread asking us if we'd prefer to go for a straight amputation of a limb or wait and see if the antibiotics work first?
IMO there is absolutely no way we will ever get an improvement in the UK and for the people overall that we and the world needs by following any Tory ideology, which further adds to the pointlessness of the question.
At risk of deviating off topic, is there a country or set of countries that you think do offer a better route forward? Or is an entire rewiring of the global economy and geopolitics etc necessary?
That's not having a go at the OP BTW. I'm just no longer playing political party games during a mass extinction event. That's what I really mean by pointless.
Funnily enough I just answered my own post with an answer to your question....which is very meta! I'm no longer sure who I'm talking too!
Edit: i.e. an entire rewiring of the global economy and geopolitics. It's not looking good though.
The Tories are now too radicalised to bring the improvements we all wish for. It’s a case of hoping normal people get through this tough time without life changing consequences. Many will not sadly.
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