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City far too close to the drop zone going into the World Cup.
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Two or three players in January in Key positions is required. I don’t think we are too far away.Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
The songs we sing at home are pathetic, can’t help the players. Sheffield United fans were great in comparison.
Think you’ve hit the nail on the head. It’s our fault
100% I take full responsibility for a professional footballer being unable to pass the football or hit a barn door with a banjo. Must do better.
Who said anywhere it was the fans fault , just saying the atmosphere etc can’t help can it , neither can average referees.
What’s your view ?
I was being facetious mate, apologies.
The atmosphere is awful, I get that but that’s because of the dire football we’re being served up. The atmosphere was brilliant at the beginning of the season, full of hope but the players have let us down with their attitude and application.
I agree that the Sheff Utd fans were great, easier to travel in numbers and be vocal when a win takes you top though.
I’m baffled by how poor we’ve become at home. Given the rapid turnover of players these days we’re talking about three different teams and four different managers responsible for us being garbage at home. You can talk about the atmosphere not being as good as it was, but sides build formidable home records with less atmosphere and smaller crowds than us.
Because we are Toothless. The home form being shit probably kicked in after Warnock left (At Championship level) And whatever anyone can say about Warnock and the damage he may have caused etc, hewas never dull enough not to have match winners in his squad. Players like Hoilett, Bamba, Morrison, Zohore, Pilkington, Gunnarson, NML were are capable of getting into a position or forcing the opposition into making a mistake. Warnock was good at getting players to do that kind of thing.
What we have now are an anemic group of players, coaches and successive managers who can't seem to build a system of play at home that also incorporates a winning edge, whether that's through being aggressive off the ball, assertive and quick on it. We are as soft as shit in every respect, we don't have players who are winners, or players like the ones i mentioned above who can drag others up and almost force them to perform. There's no pressure out there.
When things aren't going right then it's the basics that matter. This might sound old fashioned and maybe it is, but where's the character, the players who want responsibility, who is prepared to fail, take risks, get a grip on games, intimidate and bully the opposition? None of them.
Yes, we are attempting to change style of play, and not before timer in my opinion. But we need some character in the team and players who believe in themselves a bit, and better managers and coaches, because we have employed utter dross. The only player out there who looks like he has the intelligence and belief to go out and play, not be intimidated etc, is o'dowda. The rest are weak, lack concentration, don't seem to possess much belief, don't have any attitude, and fold when things are going wrong. That's why we're shit. Big problems ahead for us. We don't look like winning, we haven't got the metal.
I should add Robinson to the list as well as o'Dowda, he looks like he has something.
We should have been out of sight by half time yesterday. I’m certainly more frustrated when we don’t make chances but yesterday once more we had so many excellent chances and I don’t think we even hit the bloody target with any one of them.
What really gets to me now is any ball pumped up to Mark Harris, every time he stops watching the ball and just watches the defender. He hasn’t got a hope in hell of actually winning the ball.
I wouldn’t argue too much with your analysis of the current crop of players (although I’m encouraged by Philogene’s recent performances), but, as I mentioned, it’s been over three years now. This goes back to a team that reached the Play offs, then a side which included Keiffer Moore scoring twenty goals and Harry Wilson in it, a team which was also a considerable threat at attacking set pieces and yet we only won eight matches at home that season.
It's the management and coaches we employ as well as some of the players. I'm convinced that they may have a handle on coaching, passed all the tests, can say the right things etc, but they seem to lack intelligence in a footballing and management sense, they're boring, anemic, clones. They have nothing about them. Most footballers are dullards, they need someone who can get the best out of them, motivate etc, be seen as someone who the players can respect and believe in. Looking in from the outside, would you be motivated by the likes of Harris, Morison, Hudson and their crew? I don't think i would, i'd probably think that they were clowns, and in Hudson i'd feel a bit sorry for him.
The best managers and coaches have something about them, at all levels, Warnock had something about him, even though he was almost always detrimental after he had left a club. This younger group are more obsessed with the coaching as opposed to the actual motivation and personal management. They look at Pep and Klopp and think that it's just about style, tactics and being brave, it isn't. Those two can go old school when needed, because it's in them not to take a step back, and they would be successful at any level, because they demand better. This lot are shit.
Yes, I think the managers are a more likely cause than the players. For me, Harris played mostly dull football, McCarthy just lost the plot and the football was again dull. I thought Morison had something about him and believe there could be a decent manager there, but he was too prickly, handled certain players poorly and never seemed to know what he wanted tactically - for me he was always overly concerned about the opposition. I don’t know what Hudson stands for - we’re a bit more direct, but, as with Morison, you feel the game is as good as over if this lot fall behind.
I’d agree about a lack of motivation as well, I think Harris was the best of the four as far as getting the players up for a game was concerned. We never really looked motivated once McCarthy signed his contract, based on his public persona, Morison would not have motivated me and heads seem to drop quickly under Hudson.
We aren't good enough at the fundamentals. We can't play, we don't attack with any intent so at home, when sides will sit back and soak stuff up, we are completely incapable of breaking teams down. We have major holes all over the side, with major deficiencies. I don't think we can get 11 Championship level players on the pitch, Nkounkou is a complete liability. We must sign a left back, a centre mid and a striker in the window. If we play a front 4 of Philogene, O'Dowda, Robinson and a decent forward, we might get out of this mess. We need to get someone who can pass the ball forward.
For me, the only team that's good enough is Allsop; Romeo, Ng, Kipre, Bagan; Wintle, Ralls; O'Dowda, Colwill, Philogene; Robison. I think Davies, Colwill and Bagan could be good enough at this level with time. Harris is OK, and makes up for his lack of ability with a mountain of effort. Rino isn't my type of footballer, he's got a touch like a trampoline and can't pass but he can get about the pitch. We are going to be stuck with Sawyers, Ojo, Simpson and Etete for at least another year. Let's hope Adams can play a bit, we are so short on ability. Gavin Whyte getting game time says it all about what a complete and utter disaster that window was. It's OK to not hit on every transfer. It is unacceptable that so many are so far off the level required.
Ojo
We ****ed up when we didn't shift Warnock on after relegation, there's even an argument in my opinion for getting rid after promotion under him. That was our second chance after Ole and the subsequent punishment that was slade. Money was spent under Warnock and it shouldn't have been him taking us down a new road in terms of development, that was the biggest mistake that Tan and the two ronnies made. That was a massive opportunity missed. We know what happened and in true fashion the board reacted poorly, no due diligence, no thought, no plan. What an opportunity wasted, especially as it was never really on the cards.
Ever since the belated sacking of Warnock, the club have lazily reacted, and it's been catastrophic in terms of player development, style, identity, almost everything. This is a club on the slide, no doubt about that. We are all looking for solutions and attempting to see the good in players, hoping that they will come good, putting our houses on a kid who hasn't played for half a year (Colwill) and we have no idea what type of player he is now. It's bad, there isn't anything to get excited about, there aren't any players who you really look forward to watching. The atmosphere is dead, and it's them at the top of the tree who have blindly walked into this mess.
Problem is that i can't really see a way out of this without us eventually getting relegated. It's shit, and i do think that supporters are being too pragmatic.
What I always remember about the summer of 2019 was that people on here and other City fans I talked to were voicing concerns about the signings we were making and they were soon proved correct. If a bunch of supporters could see the problems ahead, you have to ask why the big wigs at the club couldn’t. The answer to that seems clear - they don’t know enough about football and Warnock was able to put together a squad of giants and workhorses that were soon found out just like us lot on here said they would be.
I agree about Warnock leaving after promotion because that really would have given us an opportunity to rebuild with the sort of budget needed for that task. It was never going to happen though and I believe that the truth is that if Warnock had gone, we’d have been disappointed by the quality of applicant for the job - I reckon there’s still plenty of good quality managers who wouldn’t countenance working under Vincent Tan. That’s the problem we’ve got when we all hope for someone to be appointed as a manager from outside the club, I’d be willing to bet that we wouldn’t be impressed by who got the job because so many of the names we think would be realistic options would not come here.
Can the way a club is being run effect results on the pitch and, if they can, could they do so to the extent it could lead to three years of very poor home results? I can’t say for sure that it could, but City are stagnating and have been for a couple of years now - if money remains tight, I can’t see how Vincent Tan can fulfil his promise about leaving us in a stronger position than we were when he came here.
Yeah, so it's really about blind hope. It's not like we can see something developing. Fans aren't stupid and most know enough about the game not to be fooled by bullshit. I think that we are quite a patient bunch and easily pleased compared to a lot of other football supporters. If we could see a plan, some progress, a bit of thought, then i'm sure that as fans we would be supportive and allow the time for things to develop. As it stands there's nothing to get enthusiastic about.
Warnocks 2019 window was bad.
This summer was the chance of a rebuild.
Sadly this window was an even bigger disaster. I suppose those we are stuck with now for the next couple of seasons are not on big wages.
I dont even think weve got the players to bounce back.
If you’re asking why are Cardiff so crap, there’s lots of deeper answers. If you’re asking specifically why we are so crap at home, I’d say it’s more of a fluke when we occasionally play marginally better away.
With regards the fans, the atmosphere will return as soon as some sort of football or positivity does
I'm not convinced that Warnock deserves this criticism.
He signed two expensive players with an eye to the future, Murphy and Reid. Murphy seriously flopped, yet his twin is still part of the Newcastle set-up and Reid is an ever-present in a decent Fulham team. Hindsight doesn't mean theose buying decisions were wrong.
City only missed out on staying up by a couple of points - and you have to factor in the Sala affair which seemed to knock the stuffing out of Warnock. He was never the same after that. If Sala had played, he may well have helped the team secure the few points needed for survival. Who knows what would have happened in a second Premiership season.
My view is that Warnock and City suffered from the effects of desperate and unusual circumstances.
In fact, he had every reason to prove his critics (who said he couldn't keep teams up) wrong.
I think that Warnock would've finished Reid off as a player if he hadn't moved on. As for the Sala affair, you could well be right on that.
We have sent a good lad from the shop floor on an advanced first aid course and then called him a doctor.
Harris was supposed to be our transition manager from the Warnock direct era, he was neither Warnock or Pep
Mick was an admission of that failure by getting a dinosaur to emulate Warnock although Warnock systems were light years ahead of Micks
Morison sold the hierarchy that he could change a culture without much cash, he couldn't we were going down. Why would you let someone, not from the footballing culture you want to become be in charge of your transition ? If we were to be a Gegenpress outfit, go into Bunderliga 2 or and get someone who has immersed themselves in every variant of that game. If its Pep ball go into La liga 2 or lower and find someone. We went for a Bruiser from Millwall
Championship football is simple. Defenders defend, our left back hasn't a clue and we are under sized in the centre halfs
Midfeilders try to win the ball back and pass it to our skilled players, we are OK to good at this.
Forwards should be your most skilled flair players and are traditionally a bit shy in the workload depart, ours are all workers devoid of any flair or raw pace. (Penny did drop with Philogene recently)
We have no set play game as we don't have the guile or the beef to impose ourselves on them.
This is not a plastic Jonny come Lately crowd, they know a dud when they see one, so are subdued and hence the atmosphere.
We need a 9, CR is not the main man he is a wide forward/ second striker or 10. He is by far our best forward.
Excellent post mate, better than i could have said. Post more
Re: why City have such a poor recent record at home, I suggest two reasons.
In both promotion seasons, City were set up to have a sound defence. The logic is obvious - don't concede gives you a fighting chance of winning. Compare those defences to the current mob - actually don't do that - it's enough to make a fan weep.
Secondly, winning a home game usually means a team is set up to press and attack. This has an important side effect of getting the fans onside. Again, City have been woefully lacking in this respect.
An ideal scenario might be to have a strong defence, a dominating defensive midfielder, two mobile and constructive midfielders, at least one effective winger and one/two strikers who can find the back of the net.
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