Are Wales crap, under-performing or a mixture of both?

[the other bob wilson]

My opinion for what it's worth is that we have been in the top twenty of the FIFA rankings continuously for seven years, so, in a tournament which has thirty two sides in it, we should be there on merit based on what's happened since 2015. It's not some fluke that we've had seven years at a level which we could not have dreamed of a decade ago. Yes, I accept that were now at a stage where that ranking is very likely to drop, but I still say that it's not just Bale and Ramsey who are under performing, the whole squad is.

In my blog piece for the Iran game, I said Ampadu had a poor game and I stick by that and, yet, if you asked me to pick a Welsh player of the tournament up to now, I'd probably go for him - that really shows how low the level of performance has been from the squad. I have no expectations of qualification or even a win tomorrow, but would like to think that we would at least be able to show the world that we're better than what we've produced so far.

So, I suppose my answer to the question I set in the title is that it's a mixture of both, but with far more of the under performing aspect than the us being crap one.

[WJ99mobile]

Bob when was the last time you saw us play a team off the park?

We’ve been crap for years but digging out vital results.

[the other bob wilson]

Bob when was the last time you saw us play a team off the park?

We’ve been crap for years but digging out vital results.

We deserved to beat Austria, but I'd say the last team we stuffed was Belarus. Professional football and, especially, top level football is not about playing sides off the park every week though, no one does that - how can we be crap if, to use your words, we've consistently been able to dig out vital results in recent years?

[The Bloop]

I think Ampadu has matured a great deal recently.
A few years ago he seemed guaranteed to have a rash challenge or 2 per game, but now seems more level headed. It doesn't help when one minute he's part of a back 3, and the next he's playing in front of the defenders, in Joe Allen's position or next too him.

[Hilts]

Ampadu was just behind Connor Roberts in absolute shockers v Iran. He played well defensively 2nd half v USA.

Moore has to be our player of the tournament and id rate him about 6/10.

I think the World Rankings can be taken with a pinch of salt there is no way us and Iran are top 20. And I dont think we ever were deserving of our highest ranking

Weve to a great extent been carried by Bale and Ramsey. Bale in particular for a few years was in a group behind Ronaldo and Messi as the best in the World.

With a 26 man squad for the pool of players we have some young players can rightly be pissed off when they see this squad perform so poorly.

Whether they themselves are good enough is another matter but I cant see how they can do worse.

I think we are just a very average side and that average side and those average players needed to be at the top of their game but theyve played badly.

They need a huge performance tomorrow night. Im not expecting a win or draw but lets het some pride back.

[Hilts]

I think Ampadu has matured a great deal recently.
A few years ago he seemed guaranteed to have a rash challenge or 2 per game, but now seems more level headed. It doesn't help when one minute he's part of a back 3, and the next he's playing in front of the defenders, in Joe Allen's position or next too him.

I think thats a fair comment on Ampadu.

Id prefer him at the back is touch and passing to me is very dodgy but we dont have many options in midfield. Hed probably be better as well if he had better players around him.

[North Cardiff Blue]

My opinion for what it's worth is that we have been in the top twenty of the FIFA rankings continuously for seven years, so, in a tournament which has thirty two sides in it, we should be there on merit based on what's happened since 2015. It's not some fluke that we've had seven years at a level which we could not have dreamed of a decade ago. Yes, I accept that were now at a stage where that ranking is very likely to drop, but I still say that it's not just Bale and Ramsey who are under performing, the whole squad is.

In my blog piece for the Iran game, I said Ampadu had a poor game and I stick by that and, yet, if you asked me to pick a Welsh player of the tournament up to now, I'd probably go for him - that really shows how low the level of performance has been from the squad. I have no expectations of qualification or even a win tomorrow, but would like to think that we would at least be able to show the world that we're better than what we've produced so far.

So, I suppose my answer to the question I set in the title is that it's a mixture of both, but with far more of the under performing aspect than the us being crap one.

We've been getting better results due to two World class players, Bale mostly and sometimes Ramsey, other than that we are a below-average international team maybe top 70 in the World. Enjoy it while we can because Colwill and Harris are the standard of replacements for Bale and Rambo.

There are loads of players fading at the same time and not enough quality coming through, it was fun while it lasted.

[+ the native hipster]

My opinion for what it's worth is that we have been in the top twenty of the FIFA rankings continuously for seven years, so, in a tournament which has thirty two sides in it, we should be there on merit based on what's happened since 2015. It's not some fluke that we've had seven years at a level which we could not have dreamed of a decade ago. Yes, I accept that were now at a stage where that ranking is very likely to drop, but I still say that it's not just Bale and Ramsey who are under performing, the whole squad is.

In my blog piece for the Iran game, I said Ampadu had a poor game and I stick by that and, yet, if you asked me to pick a Welsh player of the tournament up to now, I'd probably go for him - that really shows how low the level of performance has been from the squad. I have no expectations of qualification or even a win tomorrow, but would like to think that we would at least be able to show the world that we're better than what we've produced so far.

So, I suppose my answer to the question I set in the title is that it's a mixture of both, but with far more of the under performing aspect than the us being crap one.

bale and ramsey have to retire from internationals , and we go back being wales, the weirdie beardy ap ffucwits wont like it but we are wot we is

[superfeathers]

Underperforming.
Rambo and bale are not doing well and obviously coming towards the end.
But we have other good younger players who haven’t stepped up this tournament.

You can’t expect to see us play a team off the park anymore though. With the way the national league works it’s more competitive

[BLUETIT]

I think you are all being a bit harsh on Ethan.

Against Iran, he was virtually in midfield on his own, doing the work of 3 players.
He’s 22 years of age and has about 40 starts under his belt.

When Gareth/Rambo/Allen retire, he will have to be the “olde head” of our midfield, bringing the new kids on the block, through and I for one, think he’ll thrive on the responsibility

[Cleve van Leef]

Underperforming and also it seems the tactics for this tournament don’t suit the players. Maybe the occasion has also put pressure on them not to let anyone down has been an influence.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

I think you are all being a bit harsh on Ethan.

Against Iran, he was virtually in midfield on his own, doing the work of 3 players.
He’s 22 years of age and has about 40 starts under his belt.

When Gareth/Rambo/Allen retire, he will have to be the “olde head” of our midfield, bringing the new kids on the block, through and I for one, think he’ll thrive on the responsibility

Ampadu was fine, as you say he was playing centre midfield virtually on his own. I don't know about there being many 'new kids on the block', though. It's a very thin squad with barely half a dozen decent players.

[Pearcey3]

We have been in the top 20 on merit. You don’t fluke results for 7 years.
There also needs to be some context here.
Scotland are currently ranked 40 and moving upwards. In their entire history they haven’t reached the knocked out stages of a single major tournament. We did that in successive Euro tournaments.

Context also applies in where and when we played Iran. The game was played on the hottest day of the tournament in the middle of the afternoon in a stadium of mainly Iranian supporters. How would that game have panned out on a cold, wet and windy afternoon in Ireland in front of mainly Welsh supporters? I think it would have been very different. Football is played throughout the year.

We have massively overachieved. How many countries with smaller populations have achieved what we have? The emphasis is on the word “smaller” here and not similar or slightly greater.

We are now likely to drop down the rankings as our best players retire. There is no shame in that. This has been a golden period for Welsh football with so many highs. There are now likely to be plenty of lows but we are used to that. However we will still have some highs and need to enjoy them when they occur.

[the other bob wilson]

Going back to that Together, Stronger programme, they made a lot of fuss about that 1-0 win in Azerbaijan in 2010 I think it was. Maybe they did that because, apart from a freakish Bellamy inspired 5-2 victory in Slovakia, Wales only tended to beat the absolute minnows away from home in competitive games. That’s why we’ve climbed the ranking tables and started qualifying for tournaments - we’ve discovered how to win away against middle ranked teams and often avoid defeat against sides a bit better than that. Of course, having Bale and Ramsey has helped a lot, but I’d say we also have better strength in depth and youth development than we did - the Welsh approach towards coaching and player development has been copied by others and the non Welsh high profile players who opt to go for their coaching badges in Wales is testimony to us getting things right in important aspects of the game. It’s lazy just to write us off as being crap, but I don’t think we should be getting so comprehensively outplayed by a team like Iran as we were on Friday.

[sneggyblubird]

In my view it has been bad managerial decisions from day one. Not helped either by the 2016 tribute acts falling well short. Unfortunately you can't substitute a lack of match fitness.

[City123]

We're underperforming as for some reason we've decided to completely abandon the midfield not once, but twice. That's on the manager.

We've got a decent squad, like Pearcey said you don't fluke results for 7 years, even without Bale and Ramsey we can put out an XI almost entirely made up of top flight players with plenty of these being 25 or under, we've also got talented youngsters to come through. Sure we won't get another Bale, but in terms of depth this is certainly a step up on what we had even in 2016 (we were bringing on Simon Church)

[City123]

Ampadu was fine, as you say he was playing centre midfield virtually on his own. I don't know about there being many 'new kids on the block', though. It's a very thin squad with barely half a dozen decent players.

That's an over exaggeration and you know it. If that were true we'd have finished 4th in our qualifying group rather than 2nd and beating two very good sides in the playoffs

[Harry Bosch]

We have been in the top 20 on merit. You don’t fluke results for 7 years.
There also needs to be some context here.
Scotland are currently ranked 40 and moving upwards. In their entire history they haven’t reached the knocked out stages of a single major tournament. We did that in successive Euro tournaments.

Context also applies in where and when we played Iran. The game was played on the hottest day of the tournament in the middle of the afternoon in a stadium of mainly Iranian supporters. How would that game have panned out on a cold, wet and windy afternoon in Ireland in front of mainly Welsh supporters? I think it would have been very different. Football is played throughout the year.

We have massively overachieved. How many countries with smaller populations have achieved what we have? The emphasis is on the word “smaller” here and not similar or slightly greater.

We are now likely to drop down the rankings as our best players retire. There is no shame in that. This has been a golden period for Welsh football with so many highs. There are now likely to be plenty of lows but we are used to that. However we will still have some highs and need to enjoy them when they occur.

I think this is an excellent post. I really do feel that the conditions are being overlooked, or not being taken fully into consideration. Anything less than peak physical condition will and has been magnified. I think we are far from crap, I think we have just suffered, as always, from a lack of numbers to pick from from and real quality amongst those numbers. In my mind Rob Page has come in for some harsh criticism and has made decisions based on the whole picture and all of the information. He has done what he thought was best I'm sure. It's all too easy for us fans to sit at home and pick our teams based on players operating at peak performance. We forget that it is highly unlikely a manager will be able to field 11 players who are "at it". We have achieved qualification for 3 tournaments from 4 because we deserved to on merit. Now we are entering a transition phase and results will continue to tail off in the short term I suspect. My hope is that blooding more youngsters now will pay dividends down the line. Yes some players have under-performed but we are not crap. England failed to beat a good USA side and essentially matched our result. Are they crap too? Of course not. We need to get behind the boys and hope they give us a send off that they will be proud of when they hang up the international boots for good.

[MacAdder]

We have been in the top 20 on merit. You don’t fluke results for 7 years.
There also needs to be some context here.
Scotland are currently ranked 40 and moving upwards. In their entire history they haven’t reached the knocked out stages of a single major tournament. We did that in successive Euro tournaments.

Context also applies in where and when we played Iran. The game was played on the hottest day of the tournament in the middle of the afternoon in a stadium of mainly Iranian supporters. How would that game have panned out on a cold, wet and windy afternoon in Ireland in front of mainly Welsh supporters? I think it would have been very different. Football is played throughout the year.

We have massively overachieved. How many countries with smaller populations have achieved what we have? The emphasis is on the word “smaller” here and not similar or slightly greater.

We are now likely to drop down the rankings as our best players retire. There is no shame in that. This has been a golden period for Welsh football with so many highs. There are now likely to be plenty of lows but we are used to that. However we will still have some highs and need to enjoy them when they occur.

Good post.

Also, I think it is harsh to single out players for their performance just as it is to blame the manager for his choice of player.

Many think Page got it wrong against Iran preferring to play our unfit top boys.
Should he have let the kids go toe to toe with their fitter players?
Perhaps.
Should Page have played a different system?
Almost certainly yes.
Would we have beaten Iran if we had played different players and a different system?
Personally I doubt it.

There are very few mugs at this world cup.

[MacAdder]

I think this is an excellent post. I really do feel that the conditions are being overlooked, or not being taken fully into consideration. Anything less than peak physical condition will and has been magnified. I think we are far from crap, I think we have just suffered, as always, from a lack of numbers to pick from from and real quality amongst those numbers. In my mind Rob Page has come in for some harsh criticism and has made decisions based on the whole picture and all of the information. He has done what he thought was best I'm sure. It's all too easy for us fans to sit at home and pick our teams based on players operating at peak performance. We forget that it is highly unlikely a manager will be able to field 11 players who are "at it". We have achieved qualification for 3 tournaments from 4 because we deserved to on merit. Now we are entering a transition phase and results will continue to tail off in the short term I suspect. My hope is that blooding more youngsters now will pay dividends down the line. Yes some players have under-performed but we are not crap. England failed to beat a good USA side and essentially matched our result. Are they crap too? Of course not. We need to get behind the boys and hope they give us a send off that they will be proud of when they hang up the international boots for good.

[2b2bdoo]

It’s certainly not the strongest squad we have had, particularly in midfield we have next to no one. I personally think Ampadu has been exceptional considering he seems to be the only one in midfield. For me it’s down to page though, we have been poor for quite some time. The Ukraine can feel unlucky not to get here the way they have a hell of a performance against us. I think mistake after mistake for page. The “game plan” is just totally missing, I don’t think the team selection has been right. It’s madness Bale has played every minute and been totally ineffective.

[Citizen's Nephew]

I think Page is crap tbh. Not my kind of manager and way too one of the lads. It doesn't work.

[LeningradCowboy]

We've underperformed by being crap. Rob Page has currently managed us in six games at major tournaments and we've played well once.

[NYCBlue]

I think we have a fairly average squad and we've certainly underperformed in this tournament. In my opinion, mismanagement has definitely been a factor.

[Vindec]

Page can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. With a mix of players from various lower leagues playing against better teams what did we expect?