The truth about Matt Hancock

[lardy]

Sweden had a full vaccination programme with boosters, mask recommendations in public places, emergency pandemic laws, travel restrictions from overseas, etc.

They did pretty much the same as everyone else, just on a smaller scale. Interestingly, the government started an independent commission (Corona Commission) who concluded that they mostly failed to protect the elderly and tougher measures should have been brought in earlier in the pandemic.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Sweden had a full vaccination programme with boosters, mask recommendations in public places, emergency pandemic laws, travel restrictions from overseas, etc.

They did pretty much the same as everyone else, just on a smaller scale. Interestingly, the government started an independent commission (Corona Commission) who concluded that they mostly failed to protect the elderly and tougher measures should have been brought in earlier in the pandemic.

Between you and Kev you seem to be saying that by early 2021 Sweden had introduced comparable or stricter measures than other parts of Europe but by then around 10 times as many Swedes by head of population died compared with their Norwegian neighbours. Still what do you boys know compared with the gifted 5%

So to follow your thoughts, if it wasn't lockdowns, ventilators, masks, vaccines, the Swedish model what was it. I guess there was test and trace I suppose, at least the German model which seemed to be a relative success. We haven't heard anything on travel bans introduced latterly by the UK.

After that its bombardment with UV light, bleach and hydroxochloroquine.

I'm just grateful that another in the gifted and talented class has promised us a detailed case study so us dolts can be confronted with the errors of our ways.

[TWGL1]

The same Sweden who’s Covid death rate is 1.6x higher than Finland and 2.5x higher than Norway? Their 2 immediate neighbours and most comparable countries.

The damage caused by the lockdown will exceed the Covid death rate, that’s the point , and it’s becoming apparent.

In my opinion when you factor in the mental health fallout, neglect of people suffering from anything other than Covid , and the financial obliteration that’s ongoing , then those figures will be dwarfed in the long term.

Even the most hardened supporters of lockdown must realistically be aware that they were not following the science, but money ( for themselves)

Remember these same governments have been sending generations to die in economic wars for hundreds of years.

That’s my view on it anyway,ultimately it’s still Covid propaganda from my side and the other which is what they want.

[Dorcus]

Some people were more worried about losing their businesses than losing lives. Of course they will still be bitter. What's a life anyway compared to lovely dosh?

[TWGL1]

Some people were more worried about losing their businesses than losing lives. Of course they will still be bitter. What's a life anyway compared to lovely dosh?

Depends if you had your own business or not I guess especially when they had children to feed and staff with families to consider , odd that isn’t it ?

[Wales-Bales]

I did wonder what had happened to all the recently unemployed Twitter propagandists, and it looks like some of them might be posting on here!

[cyril evans awaydays]

I did wonder what had happened to all the recently unemployed Twitter propagandists, and it looks like some of them might be posting on here!

You couldn't contribute anything more vague and meaningless could you?

Anyway, I thought you had an oven-ready perfectly good case study on this forum where posters regurgitated every morsel of propaganda and disinformation under the sun. When are we likely to see it?

[Dorcus]

Depends if you had your own business or not I guess especially when they had children to feed and staff with families to consider , odd that isn’t it ?

The State will always make sure children don't go hungry thank goodness. On the other hand when someone dies there's no way back from that.

[TWGL1]

The State will always make sure children don't go hungry thank goodness. On the other hand when someone dies there's no way back from that.

You think the state always make sure children don’t go hungry, are you sure about that?

Poverty is intrinsically linked to poor health, and reduced life chances.

Try and take a look at the wider picture, which is what we are discussing here.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ungry-children

[Dorcus]

You think the state always make sure children don’t go hungry, are you sure about that?

Poverty is intrinsically linked to poor health, and reduced life chances.

Try and take a look at the wider picture, which is what we are discussing here.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ungry-children

Yes the State does provide basic sustenance for children that go hungry but it could always do more if it wasn't afraid to tax those better off.

You're absolutely right that poor health is linked to poverty and again the State should do more to eradicate it by levelling things up.

However in extremis when faced with the prospect of thousands of lives being lost I would always say that the right thing to do is to protect those most at risk. If that means lockdowns and whatever comes with it then that's fine by me. Something's got to give unfortunately in a crisis and as I say I'd rather a business be lost than a life. Not ideal I know but desperate times call for desperate measures.

[TWGL1]

Yes the State does provide basic sustenance for children that go hungry but it could always do more if it wasn't afraid to tax those better off.

You're absolutely right that poor health is linked to poverty and again the State should do more to eradicate it by levelling things up.

However in extremis when faced with the prospect of thousands of lives being lost I would always say that the right thing to do is to protect those most at risk. If that means lockdowns and whatever comes with it then that's fine by me. Something's got to give unfortunately in a crisis and as I say I'd rather a business be lost than a life. Not ideal I know but desperate times call for desperate measures.

Most of the measures were not needed against something that was mild to moderate to 90% of the population. Most would not know they would have had anything other than flu unless they used a test which in itself was inaccurate.

Out of interest does anybody know how many vaccines given out were placebo ?

One in ten springs to mind.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Most of the measures were not needed against something that was mild to moderate to 90% of the population. Most would not know they would have had anything other than flu unless they used a test which in itself was inaccurate.

Out of interest does anybody know how many vaccines given out were placebo ?

One in ten springs to mind.

I guess you like to think of yourself as the embodiment of free thinking enlightenment as far as the management of Covid is concerned but perhaps you can expand on the point you are seeking to make here.

Earlier today, you thought we should have handled the crisis like Sweden. Evidence that they lost 10 times as many lives as their neighbour didn't seem to shake you from that belief. Nor did the fact that they subsequently came back within the norms of most other countries by lockdowns, social distancing, masks and latterly a successful vaccination programme.

So now you are back asking some arcane questions about the vaccine and placebos. Are you thinking that people including the Swedes, were duped into thinking they had a vaccine when they were guinea pigs in some bizarre experiment.

Don't keep us hanging!

[TWGL1]

I guess you like to think of yourself as the embodiment of free thinking enlightenment as far as the management of Covid is concerned but perhaps you can expand on the point you are seeking to make here.

Earlier today, you thought we should have handled the crisis like Sweden. Evidence that they lost 10 times as many lives as their neighbour didn't seem to shake you from that belief. Nor did the fact that they subsequently came back within the norms of most other countries by lockdowns, social distancing, masks and latterly a successful vaccination programme.

So now you are back asking some arcane questions about the vaccine and placebos. Are you thinking that people including the Swedes, were duped into thinking they had a vaccine when they were guinea pigs in some bizarre experiment.

Don't keep us hanging!

I’ve said already and will say it once again, excluding Covid , excess deaths from other factors will far outweigh deaths “saved” from lockdown policies.

Finland and Norway are neighbouring countries however they are still vastly different in terms of population density and Norway had an unusually low death rate prior to lockdown. There is more than one factor to consider when comparing the Scandinavian neighbours.

Do you dispute the theory that excess deaths ( from all ages ) will far outweigh those saved from lockdown, bearing in mind most deaths during Covid were people who were over 60 with Co morbidities?

[Wales-Bales]

I’ve said already and will say it once again, excluding Covid , excess deaths from other factors will far outweigh deaths “saved” from lockdown policies.

Finland and Norway are neighbouring countries however they are still vastly different in terms of population density and Norway had an unusually low death rate prior to lockdown. There is more than one factor to consider when comparing the Scandinavian neighbours.

Do you dispute the theory that excess deaths ( from all ages ) will far outweigh those saved from lockdown, bearing in mind most deaths during Covid were people who were over 60 with Co morbidities?

Also with covid, and many not even requiring a test.

[cyril evans awaydays]

I’ve said already and will say it once again, excluding Covid , excess deaths from other factors will far outweigh deaths “saved” from lockdown policies.

Finland and Norway are neighbouring countries however they are still vastly different in terms of population density and Norway had an unusually low death rate prior to lockdown. There is more than one factor to consider when comparing the Scandinavian neighbours.

Do you dispute the theory that excess deaths ( from all ages ) will far outweigh those saved from lockdown, bearing in mind most deaths during Covid were people who were over 60 with Co morbidities?

There are scientific studies, different to opinions apparently, that show that Sweden and Norway are similar in all major socio-economic and and geographical ways.

Now. You were making a point, apparently, about vaccines and placebos. What is it?

[TWGL1]

There are scientific studies, different to opinions apparently, that show that Sweden and Norway are similar in all major socio-economic and and geographical ways.

Now. You were making a point, apparently, about vaccines and placebos. What is it?

I just asked if anyone knew the placebo uptake during the roll out , I heard the control group was one in ten ?

[cyril evans awaydays]

Also with covid, and many not even requiring a test.

Crikey, when you boys turn up these days it's like a tandem ride! Isn't there a case study you should be working on?

[cyril evans awaydays]

I just asked if anyone knew the placebo uptake during the roll out , I heard the control group was one in ten ?

I guess it was one in ten then!

[Wales-Bales]

Crikey, when you boys turn up these days it's like a tandem ride!

It beats being a Fauci sycophant.

[cyril evans awaydays]

It beats being a Fauci sycophant.

Isn't there a case study you should be working on?

Can you imagine going all the way to chop out this bit of my mail. Any reason apart from the obvious?

[Dorcus]

Most of the measures were not needed against something that was mild to moderate to 90% of the population. Most would not know they would have had anything other than flu unless they used a test which in itself was inaccurate.

Out of interest does anybody know how many vaccines given out were placebo ?

One in ten springs to mind.

Most if not all of the measures were certainly needed in order to stop the spread of the virus and protect the weak and vulnerable. The only other option would have been to let it rip and achieve herd immunity im the wake of thousands of unnecessary deaths and the age profile of the deceased is of zero relevance.

I'm just grateful that thousands were saved even though the measures deployed inconvenienced so many many selfish libertarians.

[TWGL1]

Most if not all of the measures were certainly needed in order to stop the spread of the virus and protect the weak and vulnerable. The only other option would have been to let it rip and achieve herd immunity im the wake of thousands of unnecessary deaths and the age profile of the deceased is of zero relevance.

I'm just grateful that thousands were saved even though the measures deployed inconvenienced so many many selfish libertarians.

You could argue that those who bought into the lockdown policies were also selfish when you consider the excess deaths, caused by delays in cancer / heart operations , impacts on mental health services, increased alcohol use, the impact on education etc for a virus that has a similar IFR as flu, (bearing in mind we don’t put flu on a death certificate within 28 days of a positive test)

[Hilts]

You could argue that those who bought into the lockdown policies were also selfish when you consider the excess deaths, caused by delays in cancer / heart operations , impacts on mental health services, increased alcohol use, the impact on education etc for a virus that has a similar IFR as flu, (bearing in mind we don’t put flu on a death certificate within 28 days of a positive test)

And you dont think there would have been impacts on operations , mental health services , education if wed let Covid rip through the population.?

[TWGL1]

And you dont think there would have been impacts on operations , mental health services , education if wed let Covid rip through the population.?

It did rip through the population, but to most is was mild, again that’s my point.

Operations…. The backlog is 7m plus so clearly that didn’t work

[Hilts]

It did rip through the population, but to most is was mild, again that’s my point.

Operations…. The backlog is 7m plus so clearly that didn’t work

Ill rephrase as you didnt answer.

Don't you think there would have been an impact if wed had no lockdowns and allowed Covid to spread much quicker?