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Sunderland and Newcastle have more fans than we do. They're no less fickle or more consistent. They're not better than anyone else. They're just people who go to football matches. There are just more of them. It's no one's fault. Why are you so obsessed with this?Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
It's nothing to do with who's fault it is
Sunderland were getting an average of around 30000 in their last 4 seasons in league one
That's superb support
If we get relegated and pray to God we don't then we will see the loyalty of south wales to Cardiff City
I never said they were getting crowds of 24,000, but as you seem intent on carrying on with your nonsense, let's look further.
Sunderland attendances in 2021/22:
Wigan (first home game): 31,549
Wycombe (3rd home game): 29,344
Bolton (big team): 32,368
Cheltenham (3 days later): 28,313
Morecambe: 26,516
Sheffield Wednesday: 34.652
Doncaster: 38,395
Fleetwood Town: 28,017
Rotherham (last league game): 33,119
Playoff semi final: 44,742
What happened to the fans who didn't fancy going to see Sunderland face the likes of Morecambe, Fleetwood, where there's a drop of around 40% on their playoff semi final crowd? Seems like Sunderland fans are more likely to come out for a big game.
Sunderland have had a few crowds around the 41k mark this season, yet only 27k fancied going to see us play up there.
Yes, Sunderland have more supporters than us, I couldn't give a rat's arse. You described them as loyal. I beg to differ.
Happy to call themselves the worlds best fans and then waving Saudi flags.
Hope they fail asap
Sunderland sold over 20,000 season tickets before they even got promoted in May. They averaged 32k last season in their fourth season in League One. We struggle to get those numbers when we’re in the Premier League
Jesus Christ you are completely deluded
Sunderland are a huge club and they have incredible support
In the 4 years they were in league one they averaged gates of
32000
30000
31000
30000
Averaged , not a couple of big gates
3rd tier of British football and 30000 crowds ?
That's on a par with Man City , Leeds etc
All clubs lose support when times are tough and all clubs have fans that desert the ship with relegation but comparing the poor gates we have been dogged with over the years to Sunderland is living in cloud cuckoo land
When we beat Wycombe with a Danny gabbidon goal on the first day of the season in league one we had a crowd of 17000
It was great as we have had big gates in the lower leagues before
After a fantastic win over QPR at the millennium we got promoted and played Bradford in our first home game in the championship .......
16421 , less than our gate in league one
All that excitement of the play off win , a higher standard of football , first time at this level for 17 years
And we got 16421 ?
I am going to leave it there , you are crazy
Wasting your time mate
The fact that they have more fans than we do is not up for debate.
Sunderland have a bigger support than us without a shadow of a doubt. But to credit their loyalty? I don’t think they’re anything too special.
When they got relegated from the PL their crowds went from 42k to 27k.
Compare them to Newcastle, who’s attendance actually rose upon relegation from the PL from 49k to 51k.
Or the Sheffield clubs. Wednesday (ignoring Covid seasons) went from 24.6k to 23.8k when relegated from the Championship to League 1. And United from 30.6k to 28.6k from the PL to the Championship.
They are absolutely buzzing with it at the moment though after 50 trophyless years. Looks like they are in for some exciting times like Man City we’re 10 years ago….be grudge them too? Meanwhile we are akin to where we were in 1986, another 20 yrs in the dungeon is so very exciting isn’t it?
Not at any point have I said Sunderland's support isn't bigger than ours. Let's make that clear. What I'm questioning is loyalty. Loyalty doesn't make any difference if figures are high or low. Just because a crowd is bigger doesn't mean it's more loyal.
You've been banging on about our support fluctuating when we play bigger sides. I've pointed out that the same has happened to Sunderland, even if their figures are bigger than ours.
Sunderland have had crowds in the Championship this season that have been lower than those they had in League 1. We did the same. You seem apoplectic to the fact that our crowd in our first game back in the Championship was lower than some we had in the division below. It's happened to Sunderland. And no matter how often I repeat myself, you still don't get it.
In your mind, promotion to the Championship should mean bigger crowds. Relegation from the Championship should mean smaller crowds. That doesn't happen that often. I've provided enough evidence.
I think I'm right in saying that Villa's crowd rose after relegation.
With all of these, there's generally a common denominator. The relegated side has had a good season in the lower division and battled for promotion/playoffs. Fans like going to watch a winning team, even if it is in a division below.
Take Aston Villa again. In 1960 they won promotion to Div 1 with a bigger average attendance than saw them relegated the season before. 5 seasons in the bottom half, resulting in relegation, saw crowds drop by over 10k to just over 20k. In 1972 they won Division 3 with an average crowd of 32k, bigger than any of the following 3 seasons in Division 2.
It generally does
What does?
Relegation from a higher level of football generally means smaller crowds
We havnt played in the old third division or league one since 2003
Do you think we will buck that trend ?
When we were relegated under Alan durban from Division 2 to Division 3 the crowds dropped and we were relegated to the old fourth
I shall leave that with you , I don't want to be proved right to be honest with you , the consequences of us going down will be far more than small crowds rattling around in the ground
God, you're being a right mong.
You won't be proved right because you're a delusional idiot.
When we were relegated under Durban we swiftly moved to the bottom tier for the first time. Crowds always struggle if heading for the bottom division.
Here we go, for the avoidance of doubt. This is the general rule of thumb.
Relegation from the top flight usually results in a substantial drop in crowds. Few sides buck that trend. If the following season doesn't result in a promotion or playoff battle, the crowd drop is often greater.
However, from the second to third tier rarely results in a great drop in attendances as long as the side is challenging for the playoffs again, and most do. You mention Durban. We were relegated that season in Division 3. No wonder crowds dropped.
Damage is done to crowds when the team is struggling in a division, not anywhere near as much when relegation has actually happened. Go on to that attendance website. Pick teams at random. You'll find that sides that struggle in the Championship lose crowds. If they do go down to the third tier they only lose crowds if they struggle again.
The big lure for fans is the Premier League. The interest in the Championship is promotion. Teams challenging at the top end usually get bigger crowds than when they're mid table.
Call it fickle if you like, but fans would rather see a winning team rather than a losing team. A team challenging for promotion from the third tier often gets bigger crowds, particularly in the run in, than they get the following season after promotion. A team struggling will generally lose crowds while they struggle, not after relegation.
It all suggests that the Championship hasn't got the pull for supporters that you might think.
All these are pretty general rules of thumb. I've spent time looking at the stats. There will be occasions where this doesn't happen, of course. However Cardiff City, down the years, have generally subscribed to the norm as far as crowds are concerned.
I apologise for my outburst last night. It does get frustrating trying to discuss stats with someone who would rather dwell on his own opinions than statistics.
Oh don't worry about that mate
I am as certain as I can be that should we go down our crowds are going to be pitiful
They will be, the apathy amongst people I know who have been going since the dark days of the 80’ and 90’s is quite apparent. I guess when you get a bit older you just can’t be arsed with wasting as much time and cash as you did when one was young and stupid. Not to mention the loyal fans we lost from the rebrand….they would be the ones we need in league 1 and 2. Still, the premier league is the aim right…..
If we have to blow the ball into the net then so be itThey will be, the apathy amongst people I know who have been going since the dark days of the 80’ and 90’s is quite apparent. I guess when you get a bit older you just can’t be arsed with wasting as much time and cash as you did when one was young and stupid. Not to mention the loyal fans we lost from the rebrand….they would be the ones we need in league 1 and 2. Still, the premier league is the aim right…..
Avoiding relegation is paramount
Not to mention the loyal fans we lost from the rebrand…What like about 100.They will be, the apathy amongst people I know who have been going since the dark days of the 80’ and 90’s is quite apparent. I guess when you get a bit older you just can’t be arsed with wasting as much time and cash as you did when one was young and stupid. Not to mention the loyal fans we lost from the rebrand….they would be the ones we need in league 1 and 2. Still, the premier league is the aim right…..
We have lost more fans from banning orders than the rebrand.
Ah bollocks….I doubt we’ve had anyone banned since me moved stadium. We used to average about 150 a season back in the day, top of that league every year
I'd rather him talk about football than waffle on about the Tories
Quite a choice
It's the only blow job you will be getting this season.
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