Nadhim Zahawi Tax avoidance

[the other bob wilson]

Are we able to have a thread about a topic without people spamming out of context irrelevant stats.

Thoughts on Zahawi? Never trusted his backstory/motivation to get into politics but he is clearly a big hitter in the party as he has survived the recent party shape-shifting.

The main point for me is yet again we see how rich and poor are treated differently, 'oh don't worry just pay it back' doesn't seem to apply across the board.

A former Chancellor who doesn’t pay his taxes - only under the Johnson 2019 Government . The best/worst thing about the whole affair is that the media are trying to make out that we should be grateful to him for agreeing to pay up. Apparently the punishment for failing to declare taxable income like Zahawi did should be up to 200 per cent of the amount fiddled or even a prison sentence, but not this time - in this case we should be saying thank you to the offender apparently.

[Dorcus]

A former Chancellor who doesn’t pay his taxes - only under the Johnson 2019 Government . The best/worst thing about the whole affair is that the media are trying to make out that we should be grateful to him for agreeing to pay up. Apparently the punishment for failing to declare taxable income like Zahawi did should be up to 200 per cent of the amount fiddled or even a prison sentence, but not this time - in this case we should be saying thank you to the offender apparently.

He's rich; there's always a law for them b******s and one for people of limited means.

[the other bob wilson]

I think we've all got a weakness for gammon. It's no good for you but boy does it taste good!

Never liked it or Sunday roast ham - far too salty for me, yet I’ll eat ham in a sandwich and enjoy it

[Gofer Blue]

A former Chancellor who doesn’t pay his taxes - only under the Johnson 2019 Government . The best/worst thing about the whole affair is that the media are trying to make out that we should be grateful to him for agreeing to pay up. Apparently the punishment for failing to declare taxable income like Zahawi did should be up to 200 per cent of the amount fiddled or even a prison sentence, but not this time - in this case we should be saying thank you to the offender apparently.

Ah but you're forgetting we've been told he hasn't done anything wrong

[JamesWales]

That's just 5 random metrics to support your argument. I'm sure I could find 20 other things that show the UK is doing worse than the EU. Likewise you could probably find another 15 in your favour. How much of that stuff is actually relevant to your average person?

Comparing our unemployment rates doesn't show anything about whether Brexit has been good or bad. What were the unemployment rates 5 years ago? 10? 20? etc. It's only relevant if we can see how they compare before and after Brexit and if we know how the different countries measure unemployment. You're smart enough to know this, so the fact you've included it makes it look like you're purposely cherry picking misleading facts.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countrie...mployment-rate

The unemployment rate in the UK peaked in 2011 and decreased from 2011 to 2019 before it started rising again. The biggest decrease in unemployment was 2013-2014 and then 2014-2015. So how does Brexit factor into being a positive for the unemployment rate?

I can categorically say that my life and work have been negatively impacted by Brexit. Where I work imports a lot of stock from the EU and it has become more expensive, takes longer and is harder to do now.... But at least are stocks are up 2.71%

I'm not the only one noticing the impacts of Brexit either. If you look at polling, the public opinion about staying out or re-joining, it has shifted quite dramatically over the last 18 months. Mid 2021 support for Leave/Stay out was 54%. Now it's down to 43%. I can guarantee you people aren't making their opinions based on stock prices and GDP growth.

Attachment 5374

They aren't five random measurements. They are five absolutely critical measurements of a nations economic success. Can you think of any more important?

You are right there are dozens of other statistics, some would be favourable, others not. Most would ultimately feed into those above though

My point is that this isn't a binary thing of sunlit uplands and mortal disasters. It's complex.

The reality though is there for you to see and I don't think the media are very good at reporting it at all which does partly explain the graph you show.

[Eric Cartman]

They aren't five random measurements. They are five absolutely critical measurements of a nations economic success. Can you think of any more important?

You are right there are dozens of other statistics, some would be favourable, others not. Most would ultimately feed into those above though

My point is that this isn't a binary thing of sunlit uplands and mortal disasters. It's complex.

The reality though is there for you to see and I don't think the media are very good at reporting it at all which does partly explain the graph you show.

They don't actually tell you anything though.

Take wages:

percentiles.jpg

link because image is tiny - https://www.ft.com/content/ef265420-...8-c951baa68945

Does that look like success to you?

If you were to look at wages in the UK vs Germany for instance. You would probably draw the conclusion that they are a bit better in Germany. The reality is that for higher earners they are roughly the same, but for lower earners they are drastically worse, nuance and detail matters.

[JamesWales]

They don't actually tell you anything though.

Take wages:

percentiles.jpg

link because image is tiny - https://www.ft.com/content/ef265420-...8-c951baa68945

Does that look like success to you?

If you were to look at wages in the UK vs Germany for instance. You would probably draw the conclusion that they are a bit better in Germany. The reality is that for higher earners they are roughly the same, but for lower earners they are drastically worse, nuance and detail matters.

Can't really read that data although I'll be the first to admit the UK is one of the more unequal places, skewed by West London on particular.

It's not particularly sensible to dismiss the latest data on GDP, unemployment, wages, inflation or the stock market though. These are pretty key pieces of data and if they show a mixed picture (which they do) then let's say that and cut down on the hyperbole about being inside or outside the EU being a panacea or a disaster because neither is true.

[ninian opinian]

Can't really read that data although I'll be the first to admit the UK is one of the more unequal places, skewed by West London on particular.

It's not particularly sensible to dismiss the latest data on GDP, unemployment, wages, inflation or the stock market though. These are pretty key pieces of data and if they show a mixed picture (which they do) then let's say that and cut down on the hyperbole about being inside or outside the EU being a panacea or a disaster because neither is true.

Dear God alive man, this topic was started to throw light on a multi millionaire tax evader who happened to be a member of your beloved Tory party. FFS he was even recently made chancellor and accepted the post whilst knowingly being investigated by HMRC. No one in their right mind would support these actions. If he’s evaded tax in this way, what kind of man is he, should he be in the position of power and what else has he got away with? He should be sacked immediately and an internal investigation should be undertaken.

[superfeathers]

Dear God alive man, this topic was started to throw light on a multi millionaire tax evader who happened to be a member of your beloved Tory party. FFS he was even recently made chancellor and accepted the post whilst knowingly being investigated by HMRC. No one in their right mind would support these actions. If he’s evaded tax in this way, what kind of man is he, should he be in the position of power and what else has he got away with? He should be sacked immediately and an internal investigation should be undertaken.

Hmm
So we've got a recent former chancellor evading tax (and not for the first time), and a current PM/former chancellor whos wife wasn't paying tax.
And still we have lots of people defending them to the death, and still people wonder why they all get tarred with the same brush.

I've never felt like it before but I'm struggling to think of one of them I'd trust

[lardy]

Dear God alive man, this topic was started to throw light on a multi millionaire tax evader who happened to be a member of your beloved Tory party. FFS he was even recently made chancellor and accepted the post whilst knowingly being investigated by HMRC. No one in their right mind would support these actions. If he’s evaded tax in this way, what kind of man is he, should he be in the position of power and what else has he got away with? He should be sacked immediately and an internal investigation should be undertaken.

And for balance, because they're all the same, someone from Labour once claimed 58p too much on their expenses.

[JamesWales]

Dear God alive man, this topic was started to throw light on a multi millionaire tax evader who happened to be a member of your beloved Tory party. FFS he was even recently made chancellor and accepted the post whilst knowingly being investigated by HMRC. No one in their right mind would support these actions. If he’s evaded tax in this way, what kind of man is he, should he be in the position of power and what else has he got away with? He should be sacked immediately and an internal investigation should be undertaken.

Your language is strong and as usual reserved for only one side but no one is defending him.

I criticised you because you used this individual and cited it as a reason for them all being the "dregs of society". With Nadhim Zahawi you didn't clarify who 'this bunch' are but I guess you meant the conservatives?

Pretty irrational and pretty inconsistent in your damnation as morality seems to be determined not on the issue but on the colour of the rosette for you.

[ninian opinian]

Your language is strong and as usual reserved for only one side but no one is defending him.

I criticised you because you used this individual and cited it as a reason for them all being the "dregs of society". With Nadhim Zahawi you didn't clarify who 'this bunch' are but I guess you meant the conservatives?

Pretty irrational and pretty inconsistent in your damnation as morality seems to be determined not on the issue but on the colour of the rosette for you.

The colour of the rosette of the party currently in power is Tory blue. They are the most corrupt government in our history. Just call them out.

[JamesWales]

The colour of the rosette of the party currently in power is Tory blue. They are the most corrupt government in our history. Just call them out.

Any politician who has broken the law absolutely should be called out for it. There's no question about it and no dispute from me on any of that.

But using any individual indiscretion and then applying it to an entire group, whilst ignoring indescretion elsewhere whilst also using often inflammatory language..I won't do that.

[az city]

Your language is strong and as usual reserved for only one side but no one is defending him.

I criticised you because you used this individual and cited it as a reason for them all being the "dregs of society". With Nadhim Zahawi you didn't clarify who 'this bunch' are but I guess you meant the conservatives?

Pretty irrational and pretty inconsistent in your damnation as morality seems to be determined not on the issue but on the colour of the rosette for you.

Cyclops ... name a current Tory who you deem to hold the moral high ground. Sunak, Braverman, Coco the clown Johnson, Truss ... they are all the same selfish, corrupt and uncaring.

[az city]

Can't really read that data although I'll be the first to admit the UK is one of the more unequal places, skewed by West London on particular.

It's not particularly sensible to dismiss the latest data on GDP, unemployment, wages, inflation or the stock market though. These are pretty key pieces of data and if they show a mixed picture (which they do) then let's say that and cut down on the hyperbole about being inside or outside the EU being a panacea or a disaster because neither is true.

Do tell us what expertise you have in naming the most important statistics to use to assess the health of the UK economy. I don't think you've ever revealed this despite me asking several times. You're behaving like a know-it-all cyclops based on what? We deserve to know. Is it the same level as your mate Andrew Bridgen?

[JamesWales]

Cyclops 😂 That did make me laugh and not just for the irony!

I'm willing to point out that all parties have wrong uns. Others seemingly aren't.

"All the same" eh AZ? You'll be chanting "Lock her up!" before you know it.

Who is the Cyclops here?

[JamesWales]

Do tell us what expertise you have in naming the most important statistics to use to assess the health of the UK economy. I don't think you've ever revealed this despite me asking several times. You're behaving like a know-it-all cyclops based on what? We deserve to know. Is it the same level as your mate Andrew Bridgen?

AZ, I would suggest they are:

Annual GDP, inflation, unemployment, wage growth, interest rates, stock market performance, value of currency, current account..things like that. Most other things will ultimately feed into one or more of those and these are the things that generally speaking will impact people's lives.

Happy for you to suggest others. In fact I've been asking you to suggest that for a good year now so that you can actually make a prediction we can hold you to. I'm more than happy to do that!

[az city]

AZ, I would suggest they are:

Annual GDP, inflation, unemployment, wage growth, interest rates, stock market performance, value of currency, current account..things like that. Most other things will ultimately feed into one or more of those and these are the things that generally speaking will impact people's lives.

Happy for you to suggest others. In fact I've been asking you to suggest that for a good year now so that you can actually make a prediction we can hold you to. I'm more than happy to do that!

You've failed to answer the question just like Sunak when challenged on Zahawi. What expertise do you have in this? Your obfuscation suggests it's actually NONE. If you state your expertise, I'll reveal mine.

[JamesWales]

You've failed to answer the question just like Sunak when challenged on Zahawi. What expertise do you have in this? Your obfuscation suggests it's actually NONE. If you state your expertise, I'll reveal mine.

God you are such an arrogant arse 😂.

We've discussed this on Private Messages AZ as you well know.

Now stop twisting things to support a certain political party and debate facts. I've presented numerous ones on here and suggested the most important indicators. Why don't you clamber off the gilded horse for five minutes and do the same?

You never, ever, ever put your money where your mouth is. Spout some theory, dish out a few insults and that's it. Why is that? Do you now claim that GDP, unemployment, stock markets, inflation and the like are not important? Incredible if so.

[az city]

God you are such an arrogant arse 😂.

We've discussed this on Private Messages AZ as you well know.

Now stop twisting things to support a certain political party and debate facts. I've presented numerous ones on here and suggested the most important indicators. Why don't you clamber off the gilded horse for five minutes and do the same?

You never, ever, ever put your money where your mouth is. Spout some theory, dish out a few insults and that's it. Why is that? Do you now claim that GDP, unemployment, stock markets, inflation and the like are not important? Incredible if so.

Laughable, take a look in the mirror. You are constantly claiming expertise over things you actually only have a passing knowledge of. You're a busted flush. We already know you don't like experts - but you think you are one.

Answer on the expertise question or shut up.

(Not that it's relevant but I answered your desire for predictions: Brexit will make GB (note not NI) worse off FOREVER. Anyone with an iota of sense will tell you that. Even ardent Brexiters are now admitting it's true. What more do you want in terms of a prediction exactly?)

[Dorcus]

Laughable, take a look in the mirror. You are constantly claiming expertise over things you actually only have a passing knowledge of. You're a busted flush. We already know you don't like experts - but you think you are one.

Answer on the expertise question or shut up.

(Not that it's relevant but I answered your desire for predictions: Brexit will make GB (note not NI) worse off FOREVER. Anyone with an iota of sense will tell you that. Even ardent Brexiters are now admitting it's true. What more do you want in terms of a prediction exactly?)

Don't crush him az.

He has a dream and is one of the last believers.

His faith is inspiring and if the subject were Catholicism he'd be made a cardinal.

[JamesWales]

Laughable, take a look in the mirror. You are constantly claiming expertise over things you actually only have a passing knowledge of. You're a busted flush. We already know you don't like experts - but you think you are one.

Answer on the expertise question or shut up.

(Not that it's relevant but I answered your desire for predictions: Brexit will make GB (note not NI) worse off FOREVER. Anyone with an iota of sense will tell you that. Even ardent Brexiters are now admitting it's true. What more do you want in terms of a prediction exactly?)

You have become a parody.

I'm not an expert. But I can read and quote statistics.

You make these wild borderline unhinged claims and facts simply don't back up what you say. You know full well that the metrics I have cited (all real data) are significant and you ignore them and think insulting people fills the gap in your argument

It doesn't.

Now put up or shut up. Make some actual predictions for 2023 that we can assess. I'm more than happy to do so and we can see who is more accurate.

And don't say its not worth your time. You are a grown man so if you have time to insult people online you should have time to make a few predictions.

[JamesWales]

Laughable, take a look in the mirror. You are constantly claiming expertise over things you actually only have a passing knowledge of. You're a busted flush. We already know you don't like experts - but you think you are one.

Answer on the expertise question or shut up.

(Not that it's relevant but I answered your desire for predictions: Brexit will make GB (note not NI) worse off FOREVER. Anyone with an iota of sense will tell you that. Even ardent Brexiters are now admitting it's true. What more do you want in terms of a prediction exactly?)

Don't crush him az.

He has a dream and is one of the last believers.

His faith is inspiring and if the subject were Catholicism he'd be made a cardinal.

I just look at facts and actual data Dorcus. Get off twitter, stop listening to James O'Brien day in day out and do the same.

You aren't arguing with me, you are arguing with Eurostat and the national statistics office.

You may wish the world was going to hell and the sky was about to fall in and it's all Brexits fault but that doesn't make it so.

[az city]

You have become a parody.

I'm not an expert. But I can read and quote statistics.

You make these wild borderline unhinged claims and facts simply don't back up what you say. You know full well that the metrics I have cited (all real data) are significant and you ignore them and think insulting people fills the gap in your argument

It doesn't.

Now put up or shut up. Make some actual predictions for 2023 that we can assess. I'm more than happy to do so and we can see who is more accurate.

And don't say its not worth your time. You are a grown man so if you have time to insult people online you should have time to make a few predictions.

OK, so you've finally admitted you have zero expertise.

Are you not paying attention? I predict the GB economy will be smaller than it would have been, absent Brexit, forever. I've been telling you that for years.

Are you feeling offended as a Tory? Not sorry.

[JamesWales]

Laughable, take a look in the mirror. You are constantly claiming expertise over things you actually only have a passing knowledge of. You're a busted flush. We already know you don't like experts - but you think you are one.

Answer on the expertise question or shut up.

(Not that it's relevant but I answered your desire for predictions: Brexit will make GB (note not NI) worse off FOREVER. Anyone with an iota of sense will tell you that. Even ardent Brexiters are now admitting it's true. What more do you want in terms of a prediction exactly?)

Okay, so you'll make some wild and entirely unprovable statement, bearing in mind all major economies have underperformed from what was predicted five years ago etc, but you are not prepared to make any quantitative predictions so that we can assess them in the coming year? I am more than happy to do that.

Had we done this last year I rather think your apocalyptic predictions may have proven to have not worked out and mine, that some things are better, some worse than other countries but generally we are aligned with our peers may have proven to be closer to what happened.

Anyway, have a lovely day!