Meanwhile, in Germany…

[UNDERHILL1927]

Is it? Glatzel was slow, couldn't hold the ball up, and poor in the air, just like Watters. Unlike Watters, Glatzel could score if given a chance in the penalty area, but that was his only attribute.

A striker that puts chances away, who needs that in their team?!

[LeningradCowboy]

Thirty one goals in fifty three games for a team that, clearly, is a lot better than us and yet City fans think he can’t play Apart from Keiffer Moore for a season, Kenneth Zohore for a few months and Kenwyne Jones who had an okay scoring rate in his time here, Cardiff City has been a graveyard club for strikers since the days of Chopra and Bothroyd - could the way we have played for most of that time have something to do with it?

Kieffer Moore didn't have much trouble scoring when he played for the same Cardiff team as Robert Glatzel. Glatzel scores plenty of goals for Hamburg because Bundesliga 2 is a lower standard of football than the Championship. It's not that complicated.

[The Lone Gunman]

Kieffer Moore didn't have much trouble scoring when he played for the same Cardiff team as Robert Glatzel. Glatzel scores plenty of goals for Hamburg because Bundesliga 2 is a lower standard of football than the Championship. It's not that complicated.

That being the case, how do you explain Tommy Doyle being unable to get a game for Hamburg but walking straight into a Championship side?

Perhaps it’s a little more complicated than you imagine.

[LeningradCowboy]

Pretty good attribute for a striker.

Poor in the air, didn’t score a single header for City, and yet has scored plenty of fine headers for Hamburg. Why do you think that is? Confidence? Better service?

I don’t know the answer, but the evidence from his time at Hamburg very clearly demonstrates he’s not poor in the air.

I think Glatzel is playing against much worse defenders now than he did for Cardiff.

[The Lone Gunman]

I think Glatzel is playing against much worse defenders now than he did for Cardiff.

Fair enough. I’m not sure that’s correct and I’m 100% confident Max Watters wouldn’t score anywhere near as many goals in Bundesliga 2, but you may be onto something here. Perhaps City can try to sell Watters to a Bundesliga 2 side in the summer.

[the other bob wilson]

Kieffer Moore didn't have much trouble scoring when he played for the same Cardiff team as Robert Glatzel. Glatzel scores plenty of goals for Hamburg because Bundesliga 2 is a lower standard of football than the Championship. It's not that complicated.

Delusional is the word that springs to my mind.

[Tuerto]

I don't know how glatzel has scored his goals, but maybe he's the type of striker who likes to play with the ball in front of him, and we could never accommodate that due to the way a number 9 is used at the club, ball into chest, take the knocks, win free kicks, reset for the set piece etc. I don't know whether Glatzel would have been good enough, but lets face it, what chance did he have?

[Mario Miethig]

I always liked Glatzel, you could tell the fella had talent and he also seemed like a nice guy. It just didn’t work out for him here, it’s just one of those things I think. Also, maybe he didn’t settle into the British lifestyle? Sometimes these things affects a player’s performance.
You don’t score a hat trick against Bayern Munich if you’re rubbish.

[LeningradCowboy]

Delusional is the word that springs to my mind.

Kieffer Moore has scored 4 goals this season. Robert Glatzel has scored 14. Who is the better striker?

[the other bob wilson]

I don't know how glatzel has scored his goals, but maybe he's the type of striker who likes to play with the ball in front of him, and we could never accommodate that due to the way a number 9 is used at the club, ball into chest, take the knocks, win free kicks, reset for the set piece etc. I don't know whether Glatzel would have been good enough, but lets face it, what chance did he have?

Precisely, I’m not saying he’d have had the sort of scoring rate he’s got at Hamburg if we’d played more to his strengths, but Zohore during his inspired spell apart, our target men were only targets for the sort of service you describe. Then, once they’d got us a free kick, corner or throw in, it would be a case of get the big men up from the back and they’d be our main targets - Keiffer Moore was often our third choice target from set pieces, but he managed to score a lot of different type goals, including a few from open play, but he didn’t score too many headers from set pieces.

[the other bob wilson]

Kieffer Moore has scored 4 goals this season. Robert Glatzel has scored 14. Who is the better striker?

You’re getting desperate now.

[The Lone Gunman]

Kieffer Moore has scored 4 goals this season. Robert Glatzel has scored 14. Who is the better striker?

Now you’re being silly. But it’s interesting you’ve mentioned Moore. His stats during his second season here (before he went to Bournemouth) were almost identical to Glatzel’s first season in terms of goals per game.

[LeningradCowboy]

You’re getting desperate now.

You're the one who seems to think that the quality of the opposition is irrelevant when assessing the performance of a player.

[The Lone Gunman]

You're the one who seems to think that the quality of the opposition is irrelevant when assessing the performance of a player.

By contrast, you seem to believe it’s the only factor worth considering, which seems a bit daft to me.

[LeningradCowboy]

Now you’re being silly. But it’s interesting you’ve mentioned Moore. His stats during his second season here (before he went to Bournemouth) were almost identical to Glatzel’s first season in terms of goals per game.

We had a much worse team in Moore's second season than in Glatzel's first season. How did their goals per game compare in the season that they both played for us?

[City123]

Now you’re being silly. But it’s interesting you’ve mentioned Moore. His stats during his second season here (before he went to Bournemouth) were almost identical to Glatzel’s first season in terms of goals per game.

Moore had practically downed tools at that point mind, he then scored 4 goals in 4 appearances for Bournemouth to clinch promotion. There's no way Glatzel would have scored 20 goals under Harris/McCarthy like Moore did

I think with Glatzel he is a talented player but there's no way we should have spent the amount of money we did on him, some players are just suited so certain clubs/divisions and Glatzel could be one of those.

[The Lone Gunman]

We had a much worse team in Moore's second season than in Glatzel's first season. How did their goals per game compare in the season that they both played for us?

Moore‘s was very much better, obviously.

[The Lone Gunman]

Moore had practically downed tools at that point mind, he then scored 4 goals in 4 appearances for Bournemouth to clinch promotion. There's no way Glatzel would have scored 20 goals under Harris/McCarthy like Moore did.

I don’t think so either. I think a comparison with Moore is a bit pointless to be honest.

You’re right, though. Moore was in significantly poorer form than he had been the previous season, and there were various reasons for that. It certainly wasn’t as simple as the strength of the opposition.

[LeningradCowboy]

By contrast, you seem to believe it’s the only factor worth considering, which seems a bit daft to me.

I don't think that, but I saw Glatzel play for us enough times to realise that he was never going to be a regular starter for a Championship team, so if he's scoring plenty of goals for Hamburg then there is a pretty simple explanation and it's not Cardiff City ruins strikers.

[Tuerto]

Moore had practically downed tools at that point mind, he then scored 4 goals in 4 appearances for Bournemouth to clinch promotion. There's no way Glatzel would have scored 20 goals under Harris/McCarthy like Moore did

I think with Glatzel he is a talented player but there's no way we should have spent the amount of money we did on him, some players are just suited so certain clubs/divisions and Glatzel could be one of those.

Yeah, good point, but surely, whoever scouted him must have seen that glatzel wasn't at his best with his back to goal, he wasn't a physical player in terms of holding the ball up and pinning defenders, which is how we played, exclusively. He looked his best when he dropped off from the play, he was a second ball striker, he could never make the first contact. Yet we spent 6 million on him and seemingly ignored his strengths. I'm not attempting to re write history though, at times he looked poor and completely out of the game, he used to have to force aggression out of himself, and it made him look awkward. Poor bugger must have been exasperated by it all.

[Tuerto]

I don't think that, but I saw Glatzel play for us enough times to realise that he was never going to be a regular starter for a Championship team, so if he's scoring plenty of goals for Hamburg then there is a pretty simple explanation and it's not Cardiff City ruins strikers.

And they don't improve them either.

[City123]

Yeah, good point, but surely, whoever scouted him must have seen that glatzel wasn't at his best with his back to goal, he wasn't a physical player in terms of holding the ball up and pinning defenders, which is how we played, exclusively. He looked his best when he dropped off from the play, he was a second ball striker, he could never make the first contact. Yet we spent 6 million on him and seemingly ignored his strengths. I'm not attempting to re write history though, at times he looked poor and completely out of the game, he used to have to force aggression out of himself, and it made him look awkward. Poor bugger must have been exasperated by it all.

We spent a fair bit of money over those 2 years or so on players that didn't really fit the way we play at all, beyond Glatzel we spent serious money on Murphy, Reid and Tomlin, even players like Ward & Cunningham were brought in for millions with no obvious plan of where or how they'd play

It's like we spent money on a team we wanted to be, without ever bothering to hire managers who would implement a certain way of playing

[the other bob wilson]

You're the one who seems to think that the quality of the opposition is irrelevant when assessing the performance of a player.

I’ll concede that the Championship is probably a better league than Bundesliga 2, but to nowhere near the extent you clearly believe it is. However, it’s delusional to think that a poor Championship striker (as you believe Glatzel was) who scores around five goals a season would, first, go to a club like Hamburg (who I’m sure would see us off around six or seven times out of ten) and go straight into their first team and, second, then score goals for them at the rate Glatzel has done for more than a season and a half.

Incidentally, I notice you’ve ignored TLG’s very good point about Tommy Doyle barely getting a game for Hamburg in the months immediately before he came here to become an important regular starter in our side - that doesn’t tie in with your narrative does it.

[LeningradCowboy]

I’ll concede that the Championship is probably a better league than Bundesliga 2, but to nowhere near the extent you clearly believe it is. However, it’s delusional to think that a poor Championship striker (as you believe Glatzel was) who scores around five goals a season would, first, go to a club like Hamburg (who I’m sure would see us off around six or seven times out of ten) and go straight into their first team and, second, then score goals for them at the rate Glatzel has done for more than a season and a half.

Incidentally, I notice you’ve ignored TLG’s very good point about Tommy Doyle barely getting a game for Hamburg in the months immediately before he came here to become an important regular starter in our side - that doesn’t tie in with your narrative does it.

I don't know why Tommy Doyle didn't play much for Hamburg, but since my argument is not that Hamburg is a worse team than Cardiff, but is that the opposition Hamburg plays against are on average worse than the opposition Cardiff plays against, I'm not sure it's quite as good a point as you think.

[The Lone Gunman]

I don't know why Tommy Doyle didn't play much for Hamburg, but since my argument is not that Hamburg is a worse team than Cardiff, but is that the opposition Hamburg plays against are on average worse than the opposition Cardiff plays against, I'm not sure it's quite as good a point as you think.

Really we only have three players we can consider when comparing the two leagues - Glatzel, who struggled at City but is scoring plenty for Hamburg, Doyle, who couldn’t get a game at Hamburg but walked straight into the City side, and Collins, who had come from a mid-ranking Bundesliga 2 team but looked comfortably good enough for the Championship.

I don’t believe we can simply say with any confidence that Bundesliga 2 is weaker than the Championship (especially this season), and I reckon there were plenty of factors involved in Glatzel’s struggles at Cardiff.