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I take onboard all of your points and agree with plenty of them, but here’s another interesting stat - City have scored just one goal while Colwill’s been on the pitch this season. That was Sawyers’ late goal in the home defeat to Luton back in August.Originally Posted by City123
I can’t see Colwill featuring much between now and the end of the season as Lamouchi doesn’t seem too keen on him. Maybe a loan spell somewhere next season is the way to go as he definitely appears to have gone backwards this season.
This is high end work Delm, it's not someone like me who pushes shit up a wall, i can be replaced by someone as ordinary and as average as me. We are talking pro football, elite level employment, surely someone coming in has to be better, surely someone who has been developed has to be better? Otherwise what's the point in developing players, we could go out and pick up other teams cast offs and they could be as mediocre as the rest of them.
Colwill does have some kind of track record at this level, a better one than, for instance Philogene who has been given plenty of games to prove himself this season. He has a better record than the continually ineffective Gavin Whyte who is seemingly ahead of him in the pecking order. Ojo's best season is 5 goals as a 23 year old, the same Colwill managed last season in his first full season in the first team squad. We have very few players in the squad who I would say are proven good Championship players.
Colwil's goals did make a difference last season. He won the game at Forest, scored the winner at QPR, opened the scoring in a win at Luton and sparked the comeback at Stoke. That's not bad going in what was a poor side.
There are problems with Colwill's game, I don't think anybody's saying otherwise, but if I was a manager looking to change the game would I rather have Colwill or Gavin Whyte and Tom Sang staring back at me? The same goes for Davies. It baffles me why you'd have 2 very similar attacking options on the bench when there are players in the squad who offer something different. Grant Hanley has over 300 Championship/PL appearances under his belt, Kaba and Etete aren't going to trouble him and, unsurprisingly, they didn't. Surely Davies' speed is a better option than to have than both of them?
There have been plenty of posts just on here all season of posters revelling in our move away from hoofball not particularly working out the way some had hoped
You say we rushed players through, but did any of the kids we gave debuts to look particularly out of place? The one I can think of is Zimba at Stoke and perhaps Bowen at Forest (though he looked good when we hosted Reading), but beyond that nobody looked out of place as far as I can recall and there were often comments from opposition supporters that they looked like our better players
I know you like to blame Tan for everything but that's quite the stretch and a little contradictory. If there was some directive from the top to play these players then why haven't they really featured much at all? You've claimed previously that Tan meddles in the starting XI, so if he does and the promotion of youth is down to him why haven't any of these players really had a run of games at any point?
We haven't "thrown the kids in" at all. Last season the only one of our under 21s to start more than half of our league games was McGuinness, followed by Bagan with 22 starts. Davies started 10 games and Colwill 15. That isn't throwing the kids in at all but pretty standard stuff. This is something I tried to get at earlier in the thread, there seems to be a narrative developing whereby our issues are down to playing too many youngsters who aren't up to it, that's just not the case. Our issues stem from complete misuse of our parachute payments, poor appointments and an absentee board that don't have a serious plan in place which see us lurch from manager to manager picking up more and more bang average journeymen we've used 33 players this season, 28 in the league. That's staggering.
Fair enough, so what is it then? Why have a succession of managers ignored Colwill? Lets say that he is better than the players you mentioned, why isn't he being afforded his chance to show his ability? I'm no expert, but i really think it's how colwill plays. If he isn't on the ball looking forward then he can be a liability, more so than the other players mentioned in my opinion. He may be better in posession than the others, but the rest of his game is poor, so what do you do in that situation-Start a player who is good at one thing, or start a player who is average at four aspects of the game? Because i really do believe that is how this situation with colwill is being looked at. He is poor out of possession, doesn't use his size well, positionally he suffers, poor in the tackle. He's decent with his head up, only my opinion, and it may well be bollocks, but i so believe that his non selection is due to his all round game being poor, which means that the one thing that he is good at has to be so influential and productive that it overides the poor aspects of his game, and as it stands, it isn't. In my opinion.
From what I've seen of Rubin he's been out wide this season.Really.I would like to see him in the no 10 roll.
At least as a sub in the last 30 minutes.
The manager did say that both Davies and Colwill get knocked off the ball to easy.
We've a new fitness coach lets hope there's a lot going on behind the scenes in regards to building them up.
People on here suggest playing actual football doesn't work. It does. It's been proven time and again. What doesn't work is spending pennies on players, throwing a manager who is out of his depth in the mix and saying 'start playing more football'. It is a recipe for disaster. Most can see that but it seemed to be another light bulb moment from Tan.
Did any kids look out of their depth? Yes, most of them. Where are most of them now? They're certainly not starting for City or featuring much. Why not?
There are two lines of thought on the kids that suddenly started coming in to the team under McCarthy. There was either an embarrassment of riches at Under 21 level that managers prior to them just refused to pick or Tan wanted to save money and wanted to use them no matter what to save money.
The season we threw kids in was during McCarthy's time. The vast majority of them are not in the match day squad.
I know what I think. If there was this insane amount of talent then where are they because they're certainly not making a difference for City come game day?
I also see you mention McGuinness, you're not suggesting he is a City product surely?
They put inexperienced players out wide as mistakes aren't as costly.
Bowen, King, Zimba, Denham, Kieron Evans plus the two mentioned all given game time after a certain time during the season (one or two had been given game time prior to this, just highlighting how many kids we put in) and people believe that McCarthy just suddenly thought these players are better than what we have and he wasn't told to play the kids?
As I've asked previously where are most of them?
Most haven't made it. We threw in kids and most weren't up to it.
King got ten minutes in McCarthy’s last game. Zumba and Denham made their debuts under Morison.
Same question remains. Where are they?
Some people believe the majority of these players were picked because they were good enough and ready. I'm not sure they were. I believe it is another sign of Tan being unwilling to spend what he once did and making some comment to the manager about using the kids.
It wouldn't surprise me if McCarthy and the bizarre 5 centre halves being picked was a reaction to some Tan advice. I don't know for certain obviously but it would not surprise me.
20 year-old King is on loan at Crewe, playing regularly. Denham I don’t know, think he’s been injured. Zimba, who played a grand total of 45 mins under Morison, had a loan spell at Newport but is now back.
Google is your friend. Don’t be scared of it.
They're not featuring for City then?
Why do I need Google when you do it for me?
We can go around the houses all day.
As a club we're nowhere near good enough at producing talent that features in the first team and improves it.
Well done you. I’ll leave it there as I have no idea what you’re gibbering about. This thread was about first team squad members Colwill and Davies, but you’ve tried to turn it another tiresome anti-Tan platform. I should have known better than to engage.
I think it's the defensive deficiencies plus the stop start nature of his season due to injury problems.
I think there's been a noted improvement in him defensively this season compared to last season (let's face it, he couldn't get much worse in that respect) but it's still a weakness. I would say though there is far too much emphasis on defensive characteristics in our side and it's unsurprising that we've scored so few as a result. We have plenty of players who can put in a shift defensively but very few who can pick a pass or look particularly good going forward. That's partially why I mentioned the thing about having Whyte on the bench or Colwill? It's about having options to change games, we have a pretty samey squad but in Colwill (and Davies) we have players who can offer something different.
What I've done is point out that the majority of players that broke through the same time weren't ready for first team football as the majority dropped to a lower level.
You are on some point scoring trip again trying to say who they made their debut under. My point is that we rushed players through who weren't good enough. Maybe the two mentioned in the thread aren't good enough.
I'm fine with you not engaging with me though. More than happy if you never engage ever again. Usually some smarmy point scoring when you do anyway.
I think King is back with us.
Don't take on Dave. Google is his friend.
I thought Davies Colwill and Bagan all would have careers at Championship level as a minimum.
Its disappointing the seasons theyve had but I wouldnt write them off.
If used correctly...
They could come again certainly. They have time.
It is certainly concerning that successive managers do not really see them as players they want featuring regularly though.
Yes - been back since mid January, training with the full squad and playing for the u21s.
I don't think Denham has reappeared since his injury? He still appears on the club website as a first team player - but I can't remember when the manager (any manager!) was last asked about his progress in a pre-match press conference.
McCarthy has a record of using young players to bulk out his squad, as do most professional clubs. We're the outliers in that we seemingly refuse to have a normal sized squad supplemented by youngsters
Zimba and Denham were given debuts by Morison, not McCarthy. Zimba looked out of place at Stoke and hasn't featured since, Denham played one game at the end of last season
Bowen got a league debut at Forest having impressed in 2 League Cup games. I think he may even have been on the bench when we beat Swansea the season before. He looked a little overawed at Forest but certainly wasn't out of place in the rest of his games and was very good against Reading. Evans started one game under McCarthy, the defeat at Fulham that came 7 games into the 8 loss run. Colwill looked good under McCarthy and got us his last win with those goals at Forest. As TLG points out King got 10 minutes against Boro, he went on to play a bit more under Morison and didn't look at all out of place (set up a lovely goal at Derby)
We had a very experienced squad that McCarthy supplemented with our better young players from a youth team that were all conquering, having tried out a few toward the end of the previous season, that isn't "throwing the kids in", that's pretty standard management.
But you're right, I'm sure Vincent Tan insisted that Kieron Evans come on for 3 minutes away at Forest
Yeah. Wouldn't be like Vinny to meddle at all would it.
I wouldn't believe the many ex City players that said he did.
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