CCFC accounts

[Q]

"The accounts show an operating loss for the year of £28.9m (2021 £12.1m) and a loss after tax of £26.6m (2021 £12.0m).

As a consequence of the above losses and other adjusting transactions the balance sheet deficit as at 31 May 2022 rose from £36m as at 31 May 2021 to £56m."

Thanks a lot. Maybe one of the knowledgeable ones could help me please. The difference in operating loss was ~16m (12m after tax). The overall debt went up from 36m to 56m. Is this before or after tax? Where did the other 4/8m loss come from?
As regards the extra undisclosed 9% loan, doesn't it sound like Dalman's significant interest company?

Paying tax on what? A loss!?

[TWGL1]

They don’t look good reading , but the losses are probably not much different to most championship clubs, whose accounts are being released daily.

QPR lost almost £25m during the same period

QPR’s pre-tax loss significantly increased from (restated) £4.1m to £24.7m, mainly because profit on player sales fell £17.4m to just £0.2m. Revenue rose £7.6m (52%) from £14.5m to £22.1m, as a result of COVID restrictions being lifted and business returning to normal.

The revenue growth was eaten up and more by operating expenses increasing £10.8m (30%) to £46.4m. Net interest payable was unchanged at £0.7m

[Hot Shot Hamish.]

"The accounts show an operating loss for the year of £28.9m (2021 £12.1m) and a loss after tax of £26.6m (2021 £12.0m).

As a consequence of the above losses and other adjusting transactions the balance sheet deficit as at 31 May 2022 rose from £36m as at 31 May 2021 to £56m."

Thanks a lot. Maybe one of the knowledgeable ones could help me please. The difference in operating loss was ~16m (12m after tax). The overall debt went up from 36m to 56m. Is this before or after tax? Where did the other 4/8m loss come from?
As regards the extra undisclosed 9% loan, doesn't it sound like Dalman's significant interest company?

While there will be a number of factors combined to answer your question I would say the main difference in the loss figure you are querying is that £6m of the debt was transferred to share equity.

[blue lewj]

People blaming Warnock.

We wouldn't have had the PL money and parachute payments without Warnock. I fully believe that.
You weigh that up against a few allegedly dodgy deals and he is certainly in the black.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

People blaming Warnock.

We wouldn't have had the PL money and parachute payments without Warnock. I fully believe that.
You weigh that up against a few allegedly dodgy deals and he is certainly in the black.

Are you suggesting that it was ok to let Warnock spunk all that PL money up against the wall, resulting in our current position?

[The Lone Gunman]

People blaming Warnock.

We wouldn't have had the PL money and parachute payments without Warnock. I fully believe that.
You weigh that up against a few allegedly dodgy deals and he is certainly in the black.

Poor choice of words considering the club is consistently in the red. I don’t think anyone believes Warnock is solely responsible for the club’s financial losses. But he is very obviously a significant factor.

[logic]

Paying tax on what? A loss!?

More taxes exist than Corporation Tax.

[insider]

When warnock spunked the Premier league money on "his type of players" the football club with no football knowledge then let him get more of "his type of players" after relegation , before he "knew when to leave".
The club never managed him they were incapable of doing so.
Poor management results in debt.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

In an ideal world warnock would have got us promoted after looking like we were going down then the board offer him a joint managers role or director of football post

He wouldn't have accepted either

They were in no man's land

A lot of hindsight and wise after the event comments on here

When did you realise things were going tits up and why didn't you start shouting from the rooftops then ?

[Rock_Flock_of_Five]

In an ideal world warnock would have got us promoted after looking like we were going down then the board offer him a joint managers role or director of football post

He wouldn't have accepted either

They were in no man's land

A lot of hindsight and wise after the event comments on here

When did you realise things were going tits up and why didn't you start shouting from the rooftops then ?

Joint manager role? How many such positions are there currently operating in the Football League?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Joint manager role? How many such positions are there currently operating in the Football League?

That's my point

And he certainly wouldn't have taken the offer of being a coach or assistant to another

So there we go

Thank god for the trust

Because the trust which we should have had YEARS ago would have scrutinised Sam when plenty of fans were in blowing smoke up his arse !

Lots very quiet in those days

[Rjk]

In an ideal world warnock would have got us promoted after looking like we were going down then the board offer him a joint managers role or director of football post

He wouldn't have accepted either

They were in no man's land

A lot of hindsight and wise after the event comments on here

When did you realise things were going tits up and why didn't you start shouting from the rooftops then ?

Warnock would be a ridiculous choice for director of football - that would have him concentrating on all of the things he's awful at and none of the things he's really good at

[jon1959]

In an ideal world warnock would have got us promoted after looking like we were going down then the board offer him a joint managers role or director of football post

He wouldn't have accepted either

They were in no man's land

A lot of hindsight and wise after the event comments on here

When did you realise things were going tits up and why didn't you start shouting from the rooftops then ?

I can't think of anyone less suited to a Director of Football role than Neil Warnock

Responsible for club strategy, overseeing the development of youth players and directing club recruitment?

Joint manager? Warnock would never go for that.... it would be short-lived carnage if it was ever tried.

There might have been some value in recruiting Warnock onto the Board to provide experience and advice to the absentee directors - but with limited ability to block youth development or splash Tan's cash on aging pros managed by the agency that employs (and pays bonuses to) his son!

[logic]

That's my point

And he certainly wouldn't have taken the offer of being a coach or assistant to another

So there we go

Thank god for the trust

Because the trust which we should have had YEARS ago would have scrutinised Sam when plenty of fans were in blowing smoke up his arse !

Lots very quiet in those days

Does the "lots very quiet in those days" include Trust members and officials, by any chance?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Does the "lots very quiet in those days" include Trust members and officials, by any chance?

None that I know of

The trust members and officials were the only ones standing up to the regime and getting threats and intimidation for the pleasure of doing so

[North Cardiff Blue]

Who would own a football club, imagine bailing out a club to the amount Tan has, and still almost everyone hates him

Mostly his own fault mind, why didn't he appoint a top DOF and get the best Manager available right at the start!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I can't think of anyone less suited to a Director of Football role than Neil Warnock

Responsible for club strategy, overseeing the development of youth players and directing club recruitment?

Joint manager? Warnock would never go for that.... it would be short-lived carnage if it was ever tried.

There might have been some value in recruiting Warnock onto the Board to provide experience and advice to the absentee directors - but with limited ability to block youth development or splash Tan's cash on aging pros managed by the agency that employs (and pays bonuses to) his son!

So the only option the club had was to appoint someone else after he had got us promoted or after relegation

And that's it

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Warnock would be a ridiculous choice for director of football - that would have him concentrating on all of the things he's awful at and none of the things he's really good at

Almost entirely true

So what should have happened and why are people now pointing fingers

It's hindsight and utterly pointless

Hammam , utter chancer

Ridsdale , ditto

Tan .....appoints malky , Malky fecks up , various crap appointments , warnock gets us promoted , feck up , Harris, McCarthy , Morrison , Hudson

Now we seem to have a decent management team

I think some people are treading water here

[logic]

None that I know of

The trust members and officials were the only ones standing up to the regime and getting threats and intimidation for the pleasure of doing so

So too were many non-Trust fans, lest nobody forget.

[Rjk]

When warnock spunked the Premier league money on "his type of players" the football club with no football knowledge then let him get more of "his type of players" after relegation , before he "knew when to leave".
The club never managed him they were incapable of doing so.
Poor management results in debt.

Football - especially the UK is still often too beholden to the "big football man knows how to football" and when they find someone who is even the slightest bit successful in a manager role that basically let them free reign over everything.
Add that to the fact that Warnock could sell sand to the sahara and you havea recipe for disaster.
When it is someone like warnock who has gotten success by excellent man management and motivation and a simple tactical approach then that is never going to work forever.

In many american sports, the recruitment and development and strategy side of things are completely separetd from the first team day to day management, coaching and tactics - there is some evidence that since Warnock has gone that the manager at least has a smaller voice in these things, early days but fingers crossed

[Rjk]

Almost entirely true

So what should have happened and why are people now pointing fingers

It's hindsight and utterly pointless

Hammam , utter chancer

Ridsdale , ditto

Tan .....appoints malky , Malky fecks up , various crap appointments , warnock gets us promoted , feck up , Harris, McCarthy , Morrison , Hudson

Now we seem to have a decent management team

I think some people are treading water here

I'm all for having a director of football type role - but not for that to be Neil Warnock.

The strategy of hiring a manager and hoping that they will fix everything and stay successful forever is clearly not working

[logic]

Football - especially the UK is still often too beholden to the "big football man knows how to football" and when they find someone who is even the slightest bit successful in a manager role that basically let them free reign over everything.
Add that to the fact that Warnock could sell sand to the sahara and you havea recipe for disaster.
When it is someone like warnock who has gotten success by excellent man management and motivation and a simple tactical approach then that is never going to work forever.

In many american sports, the recruitment and development and strategy side of things are completely separetd from the first team day to day management, coaching and tactics - there is some evidence that since Warnock has gone that the manager at least has a smaller voice in these things, early days but fingers crossed

The American sports model is completely different though; more franchise based, approval to buy a franchise dependent on support of other owners, salary caps etc. Add in the inks with colleges around drafting players, it's not necessarily directly comparable with non American sports.

It's rare that you'd find a football manager happy with players being bought for them. Look how much Conte whines at Spurs and they've adopted parts of that model.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

The American sports model is completely different though; more franchise based, approval to buy a franchise dependent on support of other owners, salary caps etc. Add in the inks with colleges around drafting players, it's not necessarily directly comparable with non American sports.

It's rare that you'd find a football manager happy with players being bought for them. Look how much Conte whines at Spurs and they've adopted parts of that model.

Is American football , baseball hit by scandal of dodgy owners ?

Ridsdale and Hammam were dodgy

Tan has made some utterly ridiculous decisions but that's a bit different

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I'm all for having a director of football type role - but not for that to be Neil Warnock.

The strategy of hiring a manager and hoping that they will fix everything and stay successful forever is clearly not working

Well I said that as everyone goes on and on about directors of football

Wether it's Charlie Dimmock or whoever I would like to know if all clubs have them and if they do .....are they all doing a good job ?

[Rjk]

Well I said that as everyone goes on and on about directors of football

Wether it's Charlie Dimmock or whoever I would like to know if all clubs have them and if they do .....are they all doing a good job ?

Most clubs these days have someone in that kind of role, under various names, but there are widely different ways that it has been implemented