While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

[Claude Blue]

The most ridiculous thing that has happened to me today is a few people on CCMB getting upset that the Nazi party was referred to as the National Socialist party, which is their name.

The second most ridiculous thing that has happened to me was reading that Twitter post genuinely comparing the UK to Nazi Germany.

Just a reminder; the Nazi Party hounded down and murdered six million Jews and other people for the crime of being what they are. Jews and others fled FROM Nazi Germany

The UK is the country that people entering boats are trying to come TO.

The difference is stark and obvious and whatever varying opinions we may have in how to solve the issue, I genuinely think it is disrespectful to the victims of Nazi Germany to compare the two and people (including ex footballers) should think a bit more before making such comparisons.

Have you ever thought how the Nazi's got to the Final Solution or do you think they went straight to mass extermination?

Perhaps you need to check on the rhetoric they initially used against Jews and other groups. If you knew anything about that period of history you'd understand that the tactics used then are, to some degree, being used by this Conservative government against migrants/refugees - both legal and illegal. Put simply they are "othered" i.e. demonised, blamed for all the countries ills and dehumanised.

This vile home secretary uses language straight out of the fascist playbook, perhaps not surprisingly copying the Farage and vote leave playbook. She grossly exaggerates the figures and uses terms like invasion, swarm, etc. She sickens me.

Add this to acts of voter suppression and limiting the right of protest I think we should all be concerned about the direction of travel of this government. Whilst I don't think any are actual Nazi's (although there are a few dishonourable exceptions to this) there are clear traits of totalitarianism on display here.

Early days but the warning signs are there.

[79blue]

Good to see Gary Lineker stand up to the right wing nut jobs (which is now the majority of the Tory party). It a pity that the BBC has not stood up for his right to freedom of expression since he is not a news reader. They did not try to censure him when he had a go against Qatar during the world cup. The Tory party and their supporters has used language that includes, invasion, hordes, swarms, swamping and coach roaches against people seeking asylum in this country. He is therefore is correct in calling out the Nazi terminology that has been used.

The right wing have been very voracious in the last 5 years in calling people snowflakes for being easily offended and have been on a crusade against cancel culture. Yet they doing exactly the same against Lineker. Why are they so scared of an ex footballer and sports presenter? Maybe it is because of the truth of what he says.

One of his main accuser is the dead cat tosser Lee Anderson, who says ‘This is just another example of how out of touch these overpaid stars are with the voting public. Instead of lecturing, Mr Lineker should stick to reading out the football scores and flogging crisps’. This is from a man who states on his website ‘we live in a free country, and with free speech comes the right to sometimes offend’.

Their plan would criminalise anyone coming to the country illegally and bar them from returning. But there is no route for them to apply legally. This is very Kafkaesque. The only real routes are for Ukrainians, certain people from Afghanistan (only 1 has been accepted) and the Hong Kong Chinese (up to 400,000 are eligible). This current plan has nothing to do with cutting immigration, it is all about red meat for their supporters. They know that this will not be in place before the next election. It will be held up in the lords and in the courts. They are doing it so that at the next election they can accuse the opposition and ‘lefty lawyers’ (it is either legal or not) of being anti-British, going against the will of the people (another fascist trope) and being happy to surrender the country to immigrants.

I have no issue with controlling immigration but there must be a legal route for people in need to apply to live here. It is ironic that a few of the Tory MP’s and ministers would not be here if these rules were applied to their families in the past.

[ninian opinian]

Have you ever thought how the Nazi's got to the Final Solution or do you think they went straight to mass extermination?

Perhaps you need to check on the rhetoric they initially used against Jews and other groups. If you knew anything about that period of history you'd understand that the tactics used then are, to some degree, being used by this Conservative government against migrants/refugees - both legal and illegal. Put simply they are "othered" i.e. demonised, blamed for all the countries ills and dehumanised.

This vile home secretary uses language straight out of the fascist playbook, perhaps not surprisingly copying the Farage and vote leave playbook. She grossly exaggerates the figures and uses terms like invasion, swarm, etc. She sickens me.

Add this to acts of voter suppression and limiting the right of protest I think we should all be concerned about the direction of travel of this government. Whilst I don't think any are actual Nazi's (although there are a few dishonourable exceptions to this) there are clear traits of totalitarianism on display here.

Early days but the warning signs are there.

Correct Sir, a quick history lesson for the supporters of this government.

The majority of Germans in 1930s weren’t Nazis, but the Govt & it’s propaganda made them fear Jews, travellers, LGBT & other minorities who were blamed for Germany’s perilous economy & all of society’s ills

These people lent their support to everything that followed.

[Claude Blue]

Good to see Gary Lineker stand up to the right wing nut jobs (which is now the majority of the Tory party). It a pity that the BBC has not stood up for his right to freedom of expression since he is not a news reader. They did not try to censure him when he had a go against Qatar during the world cup. The Tory party and their supporters has used language that includes, invasion, hordes, swarms, swamping and coach roaches against people seeking asylum in this country. He is therefore is correct in calling out the Nazi terminology that has been used.

The right wing have been very voracious in the last 5 years in calling people snowflakes for being easily offended and have been on a crusade against cancel culture. Yet they doing exactly the same against Lineker. Why are they so scared of an ex footballer and sports presenter? Maybe it is because of the truth of what he says.

One of his main accuser is the dead cat tosser Lee Anderson, who says ‘This is just another example of how out of touch these overpaid stars are with the voting public. Instead of lecturing, Mr Lineker should stick to reading out the football scores and flogging crisps’. This is from a man who states on his website ‘we live in a free country, and with free speech comes the right to sometimes offend’.

Their plan would criminalise anyone coming to the country illegally and bar them from returning. But there is no route for them to apply legally. This is very Kafkaesque. The only real routes are for Ukrainians, certain people from Afghanistan (only 1 has been accepted) and the Hong Kong Chinese (up to 400,000 are eligible). This current plan has nothing to do with cutting immigration, it is all about red meat for their supporters. They know that this will not be in place before the next election. It will be held up in the lords and in the courts. They are doing it so that at the next election they can accuse the opposition and ‘lefty lawyers’ (it is either legal or not) of being anti-British, going against the will of the people (another fascist trope) and being happy to surrender the country to immigrants.

I have no issue with controlling immigration but there must be a legal route for people in need to apply to live here. It is ironic that a few of the Tory MP’s and ministers would not be here if these rules were applied to their families in the past.

[Tito Fuente]

The most ridiculous thing that has happened to me today is a few people on CCMB getting upset that the Nazi party was referred to as the National Socialist party, which is their name.

The second most ridiculous thing that has happened to me was reading that Twitter post genuinely comparing the UK to Nazi Germany.

Just a reminder; the Nazi Party hounded down and murdered six million Jews and other people for the crime of being what they are. Jews and others fled FROM Nazi Germany

The UK is the country that people entering boats are trying to come TO.

The difference is stark and obvious and whatever varying opinions we may have in how to solve the issue, I genuinely think it is disrespectful to the victims of Nazi Germany to compare the two and people (including ex footballers) should think a bit more before making such comparisons.

If I am one of the posters that you were referring to, then I want to clarify that I wasn't "upset".

Factual though it is (and I went to the History of National Socialism in Munich a few years ago so I know that it's not an offense to say it), in my experience, the "National Socialism" line only gets wheeled out on social media when people are wanting to make a point about the "socialism " part of the name.

Lither, the *actual* Nazi sympathiser who was posting on here used it numerous times whilst also declaring that Hitler wasn't a fascist.

I highly doubt that you're made from the same mould as him but breaking out the N.S. party stuff is very much on brand for the alt & far right, James. Don't be like them.

As for comparing the UK with Nazi Germany, there are of course some similarities, but we are nowhere near that state yet in my opinion.

What we can't start doing is saying that we cannot make comparisons.

When I visited that museum in Munich, the most shocking thing that I took away from the experience was just how many similarities the rise of Hitler and the Nazi party had with Donald Trump's America.

[Wales-Bales]

As for comparing the UK with Nazi Germany, there are of course some similarities, but we are nowhere near that state yet in my opinion.

The UK (and most governments around the world) are now run by Technocrats.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Lither, the *actual* Nazi sympathiser who was posting on here used it numerous times whilst also declaring that Hitler wasn't a fascist.

Though supposedly banned I regularly see the user name Lither_1927 logging on to this board. Probably just another strand of someone's multi-personality disorder though.

[JamesWales]

Have you ever thought how the Nazi's got to the Final Solution or do you think they went straight to mass extermination?

Perhaps you need to check on the rhetoric they initially used against Jews and other groups. If you knew anything about that period of history you'd understand that the tactics used then are, to some degree, being used by this Conservative government against migrants/refugees - both legal and illegal. Put simply they are "othered" i.e. demonised, blamed for all the countries ills and dehumanised.

This vile home secretary uses language straight out of the fascist playbook, perhaps not surprisingly copying the Farage and vote leave playbook. She grossly exaggerates the figures and uses terms like invasion, swarm, etc. She sickens me.

Add this to acts of voter suppression and limiting the right of protest I think we should all be concerned about the direction of travel of this government. Whilst I don't think any are actual Nazi's (although there are a few dishonourable exceptions to this) there are clear traits of totalitarianism on display here.

Early days but the warning signs are there.

I know full well how it happened thank you. I have read extensively on it and comparisons to contemporary Britain are extremely historically illiterate.

[JamesWales]

If I am one of the posters that you were referring to, then I want to clarify that I wasn't "upset".

Factual though it is (and I went to the History of National Socialism in Munich a few years ago so I know that it's not an offense to say it), in my experience, the "National Socialism" line only gets wheeled out on social media when people are wanting to make a point about the "socialism " part of the name.

Lither, the *actual* Nazi sympathiser who was posting on here used it numerous times whilst also declaring that Hitler wasn't a fascist.

I highly doubt that you're made from the same mould as him but breaking out the N.S. party stuff is very much on brand for the alt & far right, James. Don't be like them.

As for comparing the UK with Nazi Germany, there are of course some similarities, but we are nowhere near that state yet in my opinion.

What we can't start doing is saying that we cannot make comparisons.

When I visited that museum in Munich, the most shocking thing that I took away from the experience was just how many similarities the rise of Hitler and the Nazi party had with Donald Trump's America.

I wasnt referring to you👍

You aren't right on the National Socialist thing though. It's very common parlance and is used interchangably with Nazi, which literally is an abbreviation of National Socialist. If writing extensively on the topic, obviously Nazi gets used more as it's the shorter form, but both terms are used to describe the party. There is nothing remotely 'alt right' about it.

Here's Olaf Scholtz using it last year:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-ve-day-speech

Here it is on page one of BBC Bitesize

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guide...82p/revision/1

This could go on and on, but referring to them as Nazis IS no different to referring to them as National Socialists, for one is an abbreviation of the other.

What isn't right is saying the Nazis are in any way similar to mainstream European socialist parties of the last 100 years or so, because they absolutely aren't. National Socialism and Socialism are very different things but you can't just change historical terms for the fun of it

[Tito Fuente]

Though supposedly banned I regularly see the user name Lither_1927 logging on to this board. Probably just another strand of someone's multi-personality disorder though.

If he comes back then I'm off again.

"Hoorah they cheered fron the depths of the Tinfoil Society"

[Doucas]

The most ridiculous thing that has happened to me today is a few people on CCMB getting upset that the Nazi party was referred to as the National Socialist party, which is their name.

The second most ridiculous thing that has happened to me was reading that Twitter post genuinely comparing the UK to Nazi Germany.

Just a reminder; the Nazi Party hounded down and murdered six million Jews and other people for the crime of being what they are. Jews and others fled FROM Nazi Germany

The UK is the country that people entering boats are trying to come TO.

The difference is stark and obvious and whatever varying opinions we may have in how to solve the issue, I genuinely think it is disrespectful to the victims of Nazi Germany to compare the two and people (including ex footballers) should think a bit more before making such comparisons.

What exactly in the tweet is wrong? Be specific.

In this additional list of Fascist tendencies most can be applied to our current government.

If you disagree what on the list isn't a sign of Fascism? Or if you think the list if correct how aren't the tories doing the things on this list?

https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/...f-fascism.html

[Tito Fuente]

I wasnt referring to you👍

You aren't right on the National Socialist thing though. It's very common parlance and is used interchangably with Nazi, which literally is an abbreviation of National Socialist. If writing extensively on the topic, obviously Nazi gets used more as it's the shorter form, but both terms are used to describe the party. There is nothing remotely 'alt right' about it.

Here's Olaf Scholtz using it last year:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-ve-day-speech

Here it is on page one of BBC Bitesize

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guide...82p/revision/1

This could go on and on, but referring to them as Nazis IS no different to referring to them as National Socialists, for one is an abbreviation of the other.

What isn't right is saying the Nazis are in any way similar to mainstream European socialist parties of the last 100 years or so, because they absolutely aren't. National Socialism and Socialism are very different things but you can't just change historical terms for the fun of it

Context is everything. Hence me saying that I'd been to a museum that's literally called, in English, The Munich Documentation Center for the History of National Socialism.

Whenever I have seen the Nazi's be referred to as National Socialists on social media it's always to present them as socialists - not fascists.

You can disagree with that as much as you'd like but I will go with my own anecdotal evidence of what I've witnessed, thanks

[JamesWales]

Context is everything. Hence me saying that I'd been to a museum that's literally called, in English, The Munich Documentation Center for the History of National Socialism.

Whenever I have seen the Nazi's be referred to as National Socialists on social media it's always to present them as socialists - not fascists.

You can disagree with that as much as you'd like but I will go with my own anecdotal evidence of what I've witnessed, thanks

That's cool, we all have anecdotal experiences that inform our opinions, but I assure you in this case it is pretty common across the board. If someone only used the full term I would be inclined to agree, but I have only ever seen it used interchangably and I have a particular interest in all things WW2, particularly it's causes.

Didn't expect to have this little debate today, but it is an interesting angle on how language can matter.

North of Ireland / Northern Ireland etc is a classic and contemporary example in that respect

[cyril evans awaydays]

If he comes back then I'm off again.

"Hoorah they cheered fron the depths of the Tinfoil Society"

According to the user profile last log on here at 22.12 last night. Perhaps that particular vile persona is still allowed to look but not touch.

[Tito Fuente]

That's cool, we all have anecdotal experiences that inform our opinions, but I assure you in this case it is pretty common across the board. If someone only used the full term I would be inclined to agree, but I have only ever seen it used interchangably and I have a particular interest in all things WW2, particularly it's causes.

Didn't expect to have this little debate today, but it is an interesting angle on how language can matter.

North of Ireland / Northern Ireland etc is a classic and contemporary example in that respect

If used in a factual and/or historical sense in the right climate then I wouldn't blink twice.

I've just bumped a quote from Lither from a thread that you were one of the biggest contributors to, to show you how it is often the case that Hitler and the Nazis are portrayed as socialists and I've seen on wider scale how "National Socialists" is used on social media.

If you haven't seen it yourself then you're not in a place to argue to the contrary.

[Tito Fuente]

According to the user profile last log on here at 22.12 last night. Perhaps that particular vile persona is still allowed to look but not touch.

I thought that he had been banned.

Strange.

[JamesWales]

If used in a factual and/or historical sense in the right climate then I wouldn't blink twice.

I've just bumped a quote from Lither from a thread that you were one of the biggest contributors to, to show you how it is often the case that Hitler and the Nazis are portrayed as socialists and I've seen on wider scale how "National Socialists" is used on social media.

If you haven't seen it yourself then you're not in a place to argue to the contrary.

Unfortunately there are some fascists on social media but just because they use a term doesn't mean it has that meaning.

Some people will see Welsh Nationalists display the Welsh flag, it doesn't mean thats a true reflection of the flags meaning.

Anyway, I don't think there is too much more to add!

[jon1959]

According to the user profile last log on here at 22.12 last night. Perhaps that particular vile persona is still allowed to look but not touch.

Brings back memories of last summer when Hitler, 'alfresco' and the 'native hipster' were acting as a tag team. The hipster is still posting but seems to have toned it down a bit. All different people of course!

[Tito Fuente]

Unfortunately there are some fascists on social media but just because they use a term doesn't mean it has that meaning.

Some people will see Welsh Nationalists display the Welsh flag, it doesn't mean thats a true reflection of the flags meaning.

Anyway, I don't think there is too much more to add!

If enough people use a term then of course it has meaning.

[cyril evans awaydays]

I thought that he had been banned.

Strange.

ModerationWorld is a wacky theme park, sometimes!

[cyril evans awaydays]

Brings back memories of last summer when Hitler, 'alfresco' and the 'native hipster' were acting as a tag team. The hipster is still posting but seems to have toned it down a bit. All different people of course!

Though if you are looking for something as similar........ heeeeere's Ronnieeeee

https://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.ph...=1#post4987320

Like I said in a post yesterday. There's always a tell

[Tito Fuente]

Though if you are looking for something as similar........ heeeeere's Ronnieeeee

https://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.ph...=1#post4987320

Like I said in a post yesterday. There's always a tell

Well, either Ronnie Bird is Lither or I now another example for James to discount at face value.

[ninian opinian]

Excellent points made in this tweet about this governments policies.

https://twitter.com/ghost_in_exile/s...LTsVTx09ZSEfIA

[JamesWales]

Excellent points made in this tweet about this governments policies.

https://twitter.com/ghost_in_exile/s...LTsVTx09ZSEfIA

Christ some of you are absolutely obsessed with Hitler. It's weird.

The comparisons are seriously preposterous and it's incredible some of you keep making them. It's a toughening up of asylum laws to deal with the system not working and being in near complete breakdown. That doesn't mean the Nazis are coming to power.

And it's the same people who rightly mock others on here for being conspiracy theorists who pump this stuff out.

[Dorcus]

No true Socialist party would have the word "National" in its title. It's meaning is antipathetic to Socialist beliefs. Whatever the Nazis called themselves they were not Socialists; they were the worst kind of fascists.