Reply With QuoteDon’t be silly. We are talking about the language used to dehumanise fellow human beings. No one said anything like what you’ve posted above. It’s all in your head.Originally Posted by JamesWales
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Oh God, don't give them ideas.
Don’t be silly. We are talking about the language used to dehumanise fellow human beings. No one said anything like what you’ve posted above. It’s all in your head.
So having looked at this list, I would say..
1 / it's not very comprehensive, but then I guess it isn't necessarily designed to be. It misses off lots of important things that are far greater signs of fascism; control, disdain for democracy etc.
2 / what it lists doesn't just refer to fascist states or parties at all. It applies to pretty much any totalitarian or 29th century communist state. It's just a list of bad traits more than anything
3 / Of the 14 traits, I would say 12 bear absolutely no relationship with the current British Govt. Point one (on tradition) perhaps does but I don't know a political party that doesn't lean on tradition. Point 13, on the 'the voice of the people'. There's an argument this is true to some extent, but again, I think any party will do that, and if it's in reference to honouring a democratic vote (as in Brexit) I would say that is the very opposite of fascism.
So it's good news! We aren't about to turn into Nazi Germany. Phew!
It does feel like a bit of a straw man at this point.
'James we are talking about the language used'
James - 'What do you mean concentration camps, we don't have any of those?!?!'
He's a stooge for the right wing of the conservative party
In America they would call him an uncle Tom
I was wondering if it was just me that was confused by the different arguments being made by posters.
I don't think ninian opinion's crusade was helpful though - since he was arguing with himself at one point about something that he was agreeing with.
I was wondering if it was just me that was confused by the different arguments being made by posters.
I don't think ninian opinion's crusade was helpful though - since he was arguing with himself at one point about something that he was actually agreeing with.
Sounds like all of us at various points on this board!
Shut up, Tito!
It would be easy to empty detention centres and those hotels illegal immigrants occupy without going to the expense of sending them to Rwanda.
Actually, the solution would ensure they return from whence they came of their own volition as quickly as they can get themselves to Dover to hire dinghies and rowing boats to return them to Calais.
All that's required would be to spread a rumour that Midazolam Matt will visit them all unless they feck off sharpish.
In 2018 (or thereabouts) we had 300 people crossing on boats. In 2022 the figure was 40,000.
Given your beloved Brexit was about taking control of our borders, would you say this has worked?
In respect of abuse of the asylum, no, quite simply it isn't working. I have always been pretty vocal about that. It's a sham.
Most ukranians that arrive are women and children because men can't leave the country. Many Syrians that arrive are men as they arrive first to get jobs so they can provide for their families, who travel later.
There is little abuse of the system, just a misunderstanding of why the demographics from each country are different.
But let's assume the system is a sham, after 12 years in power at what point does this become a failure of the incumbent government I.e. the Tories, you venerate so much?
I understand the demographics HiViz, but asylum policy isn't about sending men over first and families later, it is to rescue those in danger.
I agree with you though, but the top nationality coming by far last year was Albanians which totally is undermines your point, and that fundementally is why it is an issue.
I am more than happy to blame successive governments for it, including the Tories since 2012. Ultimately they are responsible. That said, quite clearly in the last few years they have been trying to fix the issue and it's opposing MPs who have not, so there is responsibility on all sides
Tories have an 80 seat majority, you can't place blame on anyone else.
I would include the Tories since 2010. They're not getting a free 2 years on their record from me!
As to their 'trying to fix the issue', your loyalty and credulity is truly touching. They are trying to fix the headlines whilst ignoring the underlying causes of asylum seeking, preventing any legal route of entry, stoking antagonism against the states we need to collaborate with to develop an effective strategy against the people smuggling gangs (until maybe the last few months) and using the kind of sick language that prompted the Lineker tweet.
And how are opposition MPs with no governmental power equally responsible for the mess that was created by the party that does have that power? Just own it - don't deflect.
They just look and behave like a minority Government, but back in 2019, we were, rightly, being told they’d won a landslide.
So it's incompetence then? They have spent the 'last few years' trying to fix it and it is significantly worse than when they started?
Why would the opposition have anything to do with what a majority government can get through parliament?
Read some of this back James because I refuse to believe you are this one eyed.
No one denies that the govt of the day has ultimate responsibility, although there is a balance of power of course - they cannot do everything they wish, and rightly so.
The point why people may think they are at least trying to sort compared to other parties is in terms of recognising the problem, coming up with policies, not campaigning against removal of foreign criminals etc. It does create an impression for some that as much as the govt takes the blame, the viable alternative would be weaker still on it.
Of course, if you don't view it as a problem, that's fair enough. It is likely as things stand that we will have a Labour govt in a couple of years or so. Will be very interesting to see what they would do differently.
My point wasnt about the nationalities of those coming across. Its about the hysteria that surrounds it.
40k per annum is nothing for a nation of 67m. More people will be born in London this month. But here we are.
I think births in the UK are around 600,000 a year, 50,000 a month, so London is probably around 5,000 a month, not 45,000, but I take your point. Yes, 45,000 is a tenth of the total net immigration level for last year (a record) but it's about whether the system is working probably. They think it will rise to 80,000 this year mind, which again is fuelling the need to do something
In that sense nationality matters, because Albania is by far the highest number, despite being a small country, but one in Europe and at peace. There are many reasons why people think the system is broken, but I am sure we all want what is essentially a humanitarian effort to work as best it can and help the most needy, and that isn't Albanian men.
They can always apply to live here formally and the good news is the best qualified are no longer discriminated against because they aren't in the EU.
Mendacious nonsense.
I know someone who is a barber - he is from Syria. He is a civil engineer by profession, with many years experience, speaks Arabic, Kurdish, Turkish and English. His wife and children are still in Syria and cannot get residency in the UK. His wife is a doctor.
He wants to go back to Syria but he cannot until Assad regime is removed.
If you think the best qualified can get into the UK you're very much mistaken. We have a man who is very clearly well educated but is cutting hair (because in his words any job is better than no job (and this is no disrespect meant to barbers and hairdressers)), his wife who could immediately contribute to help alleviate the growing NHS problem (created by the incumbent government), but instead we have a completely unfit system that is entirely the fault of the current government.
of course they can they have a significant majority.
no. the viable alternative is not treating everyone as a criminal, assuming innocence and treating them with dignity and compassion.
who knows, but we cannot comment on what Labour may or may not do when the Tories are in charge and are making the decisions that are literally killing people.
Clearly we don't know this guys full story, and I wish him all the best, but it is a fact that all citizens of the world are now treated equally and the more qualified you are the easier it is to come to the UK.
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