Reply With QuoteSo messy.
It's massively unfair on women.
But if one club or country includes transgender women then the rest will follow just to compete if nothing else.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65085345
Sounds like a big old can of worms to me
So messy.
It's massively unfair on women.
But if one club or country includes transgender women then the rest will follow just to compete if nothing else.
Is the future just one mixed game open to all?
Utterly ridiculous thought.Originally Posted by EastbourneBlue
"The German football association (DFB) has made a first step by introducing a policy this season across the amateur and youth game that allows transgender and non-binary players to choose if they play in men's or women's teams - a move it says puts inclusion at the heart of the sport without jeopardising player safety or fairness.
DFB diversity ambassador Thomas Hitzlsperger said the organisation was "leading the way" on inclusion and that other footballing nations, including England, Scotland and Wales, have been in contact to find out more.
But attitudes towards transgender inclusion outside Germany are very different and there are big concerns about fairness and the safety of other athletes."
That’s a kick in the balls for the girls
From the article:
Insisting this is "not about having a huge advantage", the 40-year-old former Aston Villa and West Ham midfielder suggested "it takes more than just being strong and fast, it takes skill and team effort to play football".
But strength and pace would be a massive advantage at that kind of level. You'd have to be a lot worse skillwise not to stand out.
Rumour has it Christina Ronaldo has just signed for Bayern Munich Women.
Lilly Messi signing for Borussia Dortmund should even things up.
I can remember back in school the girls 6th form hockey team were county champions, they arranged a match between the girls team and a collection of 6th form boys - none of whom had ever played hockey before, I think perhaps one played roller hockey.
the boys team absolutely thrashed the girls 5-0 I think, despite having little to no skill and no tactics or coaching - they were just a lot stronger and faster, first to every ball and outnumbered the girls all over the pitch.
clearly pace and skill weren't enough to offset the advantage on that day.
it's a really difficult issue - I'm all for trans people living their life however they like and don't want to see anyone excluded from sport or any other area of life, but then you think what is the whole point of women's sport - to allow women to compete in areas they otherwise wouldn't have any chance.
if you could absolutely guarantee that trans women had no residual physical advantage over cis women then I think most people would be fine with it, but I just don't think that is the case.
of course the numbers of trans people are very small- so we don't see huge numbers if them dominating women's sport, but does that make it ok?
no idea what the solution should be though
Transgender people should be respected and the days of bullying and harassment are hopefully slowly fading
But it's totally wrong for a person with masculine physical strength and power to compete with women
They should be totally respected for what they are and what they identify with but unless sport is totally coalesced or merged or whatever then someone born male is going to have a distinct physical advantage over women in the same or opposition team or over an individual opponent
So it's no
"but then you think what is the whole point of women's sport - to allow women to compete in areas they otherwise wouldn't have any chance."
I thought it was to complete against other women.
Agree with this. Anyone who watches sport regularly will understand the difference between men in women in terms of speed, strength and stamina. Some argue that it's just down to testosterone and if a man reduces that it's a level playing field, but it's clearly more than that. Could a woman increase her testosterone for a year/2 years and be competitive against men? No.
Athletics and swimming have both said that trans athletes can't compete in women's races and are exploring "open categories" instead. Not sure how that would work.
Yes and women should compete against other women because....
They're women?
I'm not sure where you were going with this. Did you disagree with what rjk said?
I am making you chase your tail, because it was nothing to do with you
It can be a difficult one and I can see the arguments on either side for this.
For:
It should be noted that when trans woman take hormones they have a significant reduction in muscle and strength. They are no where near male competitors. There are many changes in the body caused by taking hormones and therefore it isn’t really fair for trans woman to compete against men.
It will allow trans woman to take part if they decide not to transition as not everyone does or can.
If this had been a problem there would be many trans woman athletes winning gold medals all over the place which is not the case. Infact I don’t think any were qualifying for world elite athletics prior to the current restrictions anyway.
It keeps everyone included in sports as sports is for everyone. There isn’t enough trans people in sports to make up another category at present.
Much of this whole banning trans woman from sports has stemmed from an attack on the minority group via the same groups that attacked gay people 25 years ago. They await to see who is the most vulnerable and begin because it is easy to target vulnerable people. Woman’s rights are used as a weapon but unfortunately the very people who think they are fighting for these rights are often attacking them - you attack woman’s rights you attack trans women! They are also quite nazi like in their approach. Something I have no time for. Give it about 20 years and these people will realise they’ve actually caused A lot of harm but it’ll be too late then for apologies.
There are so many other factors that give people advantages in sport and these even include illnesses that cause a higher level of test prone in woman. Not to mention height weight and talent. Are they going to ban every woman who had an advantage.
It looks more like you didn't really follow what he was sayingI am making you chase your tail, because it was nothing to do with you
Why does it have to be an attack in trans people?
Why can't it simply be in the interest of fairness?
Or I did, and made a little sarcastic comment.It looks more like you didn't really follow what he was saying
Not all of us are super serious Lardy.
Following on from my post above where I started the arguments for allowing trans woman.
This below is against -
Some trans woman aren’t able to transition so may have advantage but I stress the word May here as some woman are much better than me at their sport.
It allows time for more research.
Trans woman may still have a small advantage even after taking hormones but we don’t know the full effects because not enough non biased research has been done yet.
Finally to add to my post and speaking from experience I was born female but I am a trans guy hence I have witnessed the loss of muscle and strength in trans woman first hand. It’s a very common issue.
To finish off though I was born female and prior to taking hormones I used to play football with the boys at school who were all around my age. Most of them I would run rings and that’s not blowing my own trumpet - I was just better than them despite the physically differences.
Aren't men generally stronger and faster than women?
Wouldn't people who were once men, now competing as women, be naturally stronger and faster than women?
See my two posts above. We don’t know for definite because not much research has been done. Without trans woman competing in sports we may never have the research. Of course men on the whole are stronger but when trans woman start taking hormones heir muscle power and strength has a significant reduction so it would no longer be fair for them to be in the men’s category. That said there may still be a small advantage and his so what we need to look at. That small advantage that is seen my many woman for many different reasons. This could be their height, their weight, talent, their genetic make up any underlying illnesses that increase testosterone. There are so many things that could be taken into account but what are they going to do ban all woman who have advantages?
Hopefully one day everyone can be included and on a level where everyone is happy.
It reduces. Doesn't equal?
Of course it's not fair of them to compete in men's, but they shouldn't compete in women's either.
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