Trans rights, do you care?

[the other bob wilson]

Just been listening to a New Statesman podcast where some interesting polling about general attitudes of the public was discussed. It probably doesn’t come as a surprise to learn that the political classes are out of step with the public to a large degree. For example, a large minority (45%) are in favour of the death penalty and around twice as many are regarded as socially “authoritarian” as there are those who are socially liberal.

Despite this, the culture wars approach favoured by many Conservative politicians is not really registering because people are being influenced mainly by the economy- immigration is not the issue it was, neither is Brexit and, apparently the trans rights issue barely figures at all.

I must admit I was reassured to hear that last bit. I think those who read the politics threads on here would not be surprised to learn that I think of myself as left leaning, in the minority who’d be classed as socially liberal and a supporter of gay rights, racial equality etc. However, the trans issue does not register with me at all. That probably doesn’t cast me in a very good light, but I’m sorry, it’s something that I cannot get very worked up about at all - it would seem I’m not alone in feeling like that.

[Wales-Bales]

Just been listening to a New Statesman podcast where some interesting polling about general attitudes of the public was discussed. It probably doesn’t come as a surprise to learn that the political classes are out of step with the public to a large degree. For example, a large minority (45%) are in favour of the death penalty and around twice as many are regarded as socially “authoritarian” as there are those who are socially liberal.

Despite this, the culture wars approach favoured by many Conservative politicians is not really registering because people are being influenced mainly by the economy- immigration is not the issue it was, neither is Brexit and, apparently the trans rights issue barely figures at all.

I must admit I was reassured to hear that last bit. I think those who read the politics threads on here would not be surprised to learn that I think of myself as left leaning, in the minority who’d be classed as socially liberal and a supporter of gay rights, racial equality etc. However, the trans issue does not register with me at all. That probably doesn’t cast me in a very good light, but I’m sorry, it’s something that I cannot get very worked up about at all - it would seem I’m not alone in feeling like that.

I don't think the politicians care either, they just get political mileage out of it, and anybody who doesn't go along with it will be done for.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Just been listening to a New Statesman podcast where some interesting polling about general attitudes of the public was discussed. It probably doesn’t come as a surprise to learn that the political classes are out of step with the public to a large degree. For example, a large minority (45%) are in favour of the death penalty and around twice as many are regarded as socially “authoritarian” as there are those who are socially liberal.

Despite this, the culture wars approach favoured by many Conservative politicians is not really registering because people are being influenced mainly by the economy- immigration is not the issue it was, neither is Brexit and, apparently the trans rights issue barely figures at all.

I must admit I was reassured to hear that last bit. I think those who read the politics threads on here would not be surprised to learn that I think of myself as left leaning, in the minority who’d be classed as socially liberal and a supporter of gay rights, racial equality etc. However, the trans issue does not register with me at all. That probably doesn’t cast me in a very good light, but I’m sorry, it’s something that I cannot get very worked up about at all - it would seem I’m not alone in feeling like that.

It's easy not to be interested in things that don't affect us personally but politicians are involved with issues that affect people across the board.

[HiVis]

People should be free to live their life as they see fit, but that does not mean they get to impact others lives. On the main forum is a thread about German women's football, and the first trans woman playing in that league. The footballer in question makes noises about their lack of height, strength and speed, so the difference between male and female athletes is clearly an issue they are aware about. What I found ironic was that the footballer didn't feel comfortable playing the game with men, but will not acknowledge that some women won't feel comfortable playing the game against them.

It is a difficult situation, because you want the trans community to be as inclusive as possible, but their rights shouldn't trump everyone else's, and it is the latter point which causes the issue.

However, the amount of media coverage given to this issue is disproportionate to how this manifests in everyday life. Trans people must make up 1% of 1% of the total population, so the likelihood of encountering anyone who is trans is probably quite slim.

[dembethewarrior]

People should be free to live as they like.

And equally, I shouldn't have to care about absolutely everything and everyone.

The trans thing doesn't register with me either, I'm not against it, but like Bob the whole thing doesn't register.

[Doucas]

To many on here it seems to be the most important issue. Corruption, the economy, climate change doesn't matter over trans rights, I guess that's because that's what right wing newspapers are banging on about because they know 'culture wars' is all they have left.

[JamesWales]

To many on here it seems to be the most important issue. Corruption, the economy, climate change doesn't matter over trans rights, I guess that's because that's what right wing newspapers are banging on about because they know 'culture wars' is all they have left.

I don't think it's right wing newspapers going on about trans rights! 🤣

[JamesWales]

I care. In as much as I care that everyone should be able to be themselves and try and lead a happy and peaceful life. I have always had a 'live and let live' attitude and anyone who threatens that with abuse is totally out of order.

I also care because it is now a hot political issue and I like politics. So even if it isn't a top issue for me, one has to form an opinion.

I do think it is talked about too much and is a bit of a distraction in many respects. I also think there is a worryingly radical side to some parts of the debate that needs reigning in somewhat.

But no, it's very very far down my list of concerns

[the other bob wilson]

I care. In as much as I care that everyone should be able to be themselves and try and lead a happy and peaceful life. I have always had a 'live and let live' attitude and anyone who threatens that with abuse is totally out of order.

I also care because it is now a hot political issue and I like politics. So even if it isn't a top issue for me, one has to form an opinion.

I do think it is talked about too much and is a bit of a distraction in many respects. I also think there is a worryingly radical side to some parts of the debate that needs reigning in somewhat.

But no, it's very very far down my list of concerns

The polling I referred to said it was anything but a hot political issue - that was the point, I have little interest in the subject and it would appear most people feel the same way.

[JamesWales]

The polling I referred to said it was anything but a hot political issue - that was the point, I have little interest in the subject and it would appear most people feel the same way.

I suspect that's the case. But there are a lot of things that 'make a lot of noise' but actually don't really affect peoples lives that much in practice.

I do agree though, I think it is all overblown and over emphasised. It's essentially cost Sturgeon her job which is crazy. Sensibly politicians would be wise to not get overly involved in it all I think.

[dembethewarrior]

I don't think it's right wing newspapers going on about trans rights! 🤣

I don't even read the news. It's mad what people assume isn't it

[Dorcus]

This "trans" thing is like people getting worked up because "it's being called Winter Holiday and not Christmas any more" or "if you say you're English they lock you up nowadays". What a load of old codswallop!

[Taunton Blue Genie]

This "trans" thing is like people getting worked up because "it's being called Winter Holiday and not Christmas any more" or "if you say you're English they lock you up nowadays". What a load of old codswallop!

On the other hand, it may be akin to the campaign for rights and equality for homosexuals in the 1960s and thereafter. Another calibration of our society in regard of a minority who consider themselves marginalised, ignored and/or discriminated against.

[79blue]

On the other hand, it may be akin to the campaign for rights and equality for homosexuals in the 1960s and thereafter. Another calibration of our society in regard of a minority who consider themselves marginalised, ignored and/or discriminated against.

You are correct. This current anti trans crusade in the right wing press is very reminiscent of the anti gay propaganda over the last 40 years.

The anti gay propaganda has subsided over the last 2 decades as more and more people are no longer scared to come out as gay. In the 70’s and 80’s the gay community was mostly underground and most people did not knowingly know many gay people. Today most people have friends and family members who are openly gay and accept it as normal and don’t think twice about. They are no longer attacked in the press as the smears no longer work.

If the attitudes of days past was still prevalent today, the gay community would still be hounded by the gutter press today.

Today it is the trans community that is now the target of smears from the right wing press. The old tropes have been taken out of storage and are now aimed at them. In the past gay people were labelled as paedophiles and a threat to children, this no longer works on them but is now aimed at trans people. The press then find the worst examples of trans people and then presents them as the average trans person.

The trans community are just the most recent group to be othered by the right wing. Over the last decade or so almost every one in this country has been deemed to enemy of the people as a cover for the right wing inability to competently run the country. These include NHS workers, junior doctors, GP’s, the unemployed, the disabled, railway workers, firefighters, remainers, unelected judges, lawyers etc etc etc.

Their aim is to get people wound up about trivial matters so that they ignore what has become of this country.

[+ the native hipster]

You are correct. This current anti trans crusade in the right wing press is very reminiscent of the anti gay propaganda over the last 40 years.

The anti gay propaganda has subsided over the last 2 decades as more and more people are no longer scared to come out as gay. In the 70’s and 80’s the gay community was mostly underground and most people did not knowingly know many gay people. Today most people have friends and family members who are openly gay and accept it as normal and don’t think twice about. They are no longer attacked in the press as the smears no longer work.

If the attitudes of days past was still prevalent today, the gay community would still be hounded by the gutter press today.

Today it is the trans community that is now the target of smears from the right wing press. The old tropes have been taken out of storage and are now aimed at them. In the past gay people were labelled as paedophiles and a threat to children, this no longer works on them but is now aimed at trans people. The press then find the worst examples of trans people and then presents them as the average trans person.

The trans community are just the most recent group to be othered by the right wing. Over the last decade or so almost every one in this country has been deemed to enemy of the people as a cover for the right wing inability to competently run the country. These include NHS workers, junior doctors, GP’s, the unemployed, the disabled, railway workers, firefighters, remainers, unelected judges, lawyers etc etc etc.

Their aim is to get people wound up about trivial matters so that they ignore what has become of this country.

attacks on lesbians and straight women by 'trans' are increasing driven by the extreme left , one would have thought the knuckle dragging swivel etc would lead the charge.

[HiVis]

You are correct. This current anti trans crusade in the right wing press is very reminiscent of the anti gay propaganda over the last 40 years.

The anti gay propaganda has subsided over the last 2 decades as more and more people are no longer scared to come out as gay. In the 70’s and 80’s the gay community was mostly underground and most people did not knowingly know many gay people. Today most people have friends and family members who are openly gay and accept it as normal and don’t think twice about. They are no longer attacked in the press as the smears no longer work.

If the attitudes of days past was still prevalent today, the gay community would still be hounded by the gutter press today.

Today it is the trans community that is now the target of smears from the right wing press. The old tropes have been taken out of storage and are now aimed at them. In the past gay people were labelled as paedophiles and a threat to children, this no longer works on them but is now aimed at trans people. The press then find the worst examples of trans people and then presents them as the average trans person.

The trans community are just the most recent group to be othered by the right wing. Over the last decade or so almost every one in this country has been deemed to enemy of the people as a cover for the right wing inability to competently run the country. These include NHS workers, junior doctors, GP’s, the unemployed, the disabled, railway workers, firefighters, remainers, unelected judges, lawyers etc etc etc.

Their aim is to get people wound up about trivial matters so that they ignore what has become of this country.

I disagree.

10 years ago people didn't care at all about the trans community. For the past few years we've been repeatedly force fed that gender and sex are two different things. To the vast majority they are not, and its time that those who believe they are accept that the majority do not share their ideals. If the difference of opinion can be accepted, then perhaps we can go back to not giving a toss about being told it most definitely has to be he/she/they.

[Doucas]

I don't think it's right wing newspapers going on about trans rights! 🤣

44 articles in the past 7 days on the daily mail website speaking about transgender people in a negative way.

[+ the native hipster]

44 articles in the past 7 days on the daily mail website speaking about transgender people in a negative way.

i wonder if that's because of a school shooting by a 'trans' woman, probly not

[Dorcus]

On the other hand, it may be akin to the campaign for rights and equality for homosexuals in the 1960s and thereafter. Another calibration of our society in regard of a minority who consider themselves marginalised, ignored and/or discriminated against.

Yes agree I meant people getting worked up about he/she/it/they pronouns is nonsensical. I'm all in favour of trans rights and people should never be abused. We like to think gender is "safely and simply" binary but for those people locked into the wrong body because of a biological aberration it must be a living hell.

[superfeathers]

The right try to turn very isolated situations into major issues and political hot potatoes.
The left try their very best not to get burnt by the potatoes.

While certain sections of the media and politics try to get people pissed off about the potatoes.
Meanwhile the massive majority of the general public are not bothered and think "live and let live"

Much the same as the boats, and pretty sad that the country somehow gets focused on very small minorities and issues that actually, on a day to day, don't affect them. I guess at least it distracts people from not being able to afford potatoes.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Yes agree I meant people getting worked up about he/she/it/they pronouns is nonsensical. I'm all in favour of trans rights and people should never be abused. We like to think gender is "safely and simply" binary but for those people locked into the wrong body because of a biological aberration it must be a living hell.

The non-binary personal pronoun situation is causing mayhem in some languages. There are over 20 different words currently in circulation in German-speaking countries regarding what English language speakers refer to as the non-binary 'they/them'.

[JamesWales]

Yes agree I meant people getting worked up about he/she/it/they pronouns is nonsensical. I'm all in favour of trans rights and people should never be abused. We like to think gender is "safely and simply" binary but for those people locked into the wrong body because of a biological aberration it must be a living hell.

Indeed. Getting worked up over pronouns is daft, although no one should have to display them.

That's not the issue though is it; it's about toilets, female safe spaces, women's rights, mental health of young people, whether transitioning can be reversed, radicalisation, language, inclusivity.

There's a whole host of issues that I can understand people have strong feelings about and there is a lot of politics and social issues at play even if many of us are largely unaffected or don't have strong feelings on it.

[Dorcus]

Indeed. Getting worked up over pronouns is daft, although no one should have to display them.

That's not the issue though is it; it's about toilets, female safe spaces, women's rights, mental health of young people, whether transitioning can be reversed, radicalisation, language, inclusivity.

There's a whole host of issues that I can understand people have strong feelings about and there is a lot of politics and social issues at play even if many of us are largely unaffected or don't have strong feelings on it.

You're right, the issue is about toilets!

A) They're never clean enough and
B) How come they're always locked when you're out and about and you're desperate for a p**s?

[superfeathers]

B) How come they're always locked when you're out and about and you're desperate for a p**s?

This is a much bigger subject that far more people should be getting worked up about.

[JamesWales]

You're right, the issue is about toilets!

A) They're never clean enough and
B) How come they're always locked when you're out and about and you're desperate for a p**s?

Just go in the urinal you big weirdo!