Where do Hudson and Lamouchi stand in the canon of City managers?

[North Cardiff Blue]

It would probably come as no surprise that neither manager features among City's finest gaffers. Mark Hudson has the joint 5th worst win percentage, alongside Jimmy Goodfellow and only Bobby Gould, Paul Trollope, Graham Williams and Terry Yorath can boast a worse rate. Meanwhile, Sabri Lamouchi's loss percentage is 6th worst in our history, just behind Williams, Trollope, Goodfellow, Yorath and Alan Durban. Hudson's problems were lack of wins, Lamouchi's were too many defeats. Both lie 22nd out of 38 in terms of wins (Lamouchi) and defeats (Hudson), so not great, but reasonable for a team that has struggled like we have this season.

Both managers rank in the bottom 10 for goal scoring. Lamouchi's defensive record is the 13th worst of any City manager, but there's a bit of a surprise as Hudson's side had the 5th best defensive record for any City manager, only bettered by Kenny Hibbitt, Lennie Lawrence, Frankie Burrows and Bill McCandless. In fact, in terms of just league games, Hudson's City would have been ranked 3rd. Quite remarkable considering how poor we were under him (and through the whole season).

Home form, as it has been for the last three seasons at least, has been dire. Hudson's home record overall is the 2nd worst in terms of wins, Lamouchi's is ranked 5th worst. Lamouchi's goals conceded and defeat percentage are also within the bottom 10.

Only McCandless, McCarthy and Harris have better away win percentages than Lamouchi, though only 8 managers have worse way defeat percentages. Hudson's away defensive record is 3rd best among City managers.

Despite a few surprising stats, it's difficult to say that either manager, statistically at least, was better than Solskjaer.

Warnock would have done a far better job short term, I agree.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Neither manager bought a player. The problems with the squad lie in last summer's farce.

Lamouchi is the best of a bad bunch of managers we've had this season and Morison's tactics and squad building are the root cause of our on pitch issues, with a large slice of Tan's decision making contributing to the whole mess.

Both didn't have a left-back all season, a dodgy keeper, I would have added Strkers but Kabba was pretty good.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Lamouchi was as good as we were likely to get

But that was until this morning

Onwards

I'd agree, I think we'll end up with worse, and get relegated, I don't trust them to get this appointment right.

[North Cardiff Blue]

There are no positives with either. Warnock had a far more positive hit with Huddersfield. He was a success there, not that I'm suggesting he'd have had the same impact here.

Lamouchi's stats for his time here aren't great. He kept us up but we had the second worst stats of all the sides that were embroiled in the relegation battle since February. Some of his stats are among the worst in Cardiff managerial history.

Carry on thinking that Hudson was shite and Lamouchi was great. They were both roughly on a par. I'm not blaming either of them, btw. They both had the same group of players, who also take responsibility for things.

I think Lamouchi was under far greater pressure, he inherited a squad with the best Striker missing no left back, and a dodgy keeper and we were hovering above the relegation zone, we couldn't score, had no confidence and he just about got us over the line, I'm sure Hudson would have taken us down.
The results may look similar, but Sabri will prove to be the better Manager over time, this was a very difficult job. He got the best out of Kabba, I doubt Hudson would have.

[North Cardiff Blue]

There are no positives with either. Warnock had a far more positive hit with Huddersfield. He was a success there, not that I'm suggesting he'd have had the same impact here.

Lamouchi's stats for his time here aren't great. He kept us up but we had the second worst stats of all the sides that were embroiled in the relegation battle since February. Some of his stats are among the worst in Cardiff managerial history.

Carry on thinking that Hudson was shite and Lamouchi was great. They were both roughly on a par. I'm not blaming either of them, btw. They both had the same group of players, who also take responsibility for things.

He would have, he does everywhere he goes, in that situation when a team is struggling at the bottom of the league, he is the man to get the team safe, If Sabri had gone there and Warnock had come here, they would have gone down and we would have been safe weeks before.

[Hilts]

He had to keep selling his best players, he did a great job when you look back, and we played good football!

Another Dave Jones myth. He didnt have to keep selling his best players and he didnt work on a shoestring budget (often claimed) . Bothroyd - never sold - left for nothing. Ledley -never sold- bid from Stoke rejected- left for nothing. Whitts never sold left for nothing.

Obviously there were sales players had ambitions of playing at a higher level.

However Jones was backed and we held on to players we could have sold for big money.

[LA Bluebird]

Gives me no pleasure to say it as he seems a quality bloke and a city stalwart but the tactics and football under Hudson were the worst I’ve seen at this level for a very long time, genuinely awful. If we had carried on with him for the season to me we would have been down without any question.

Lamouchi had good games and awful games (the awful games clearly as bad as we looked under Hudson) but in general you felt like he was trying to get the team playing a certain way and had a plan for each game. Definitely helped by the Kaba and Wickham additions as well.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Another Dave Jones myth. He didnt have to keep selling his best players and he didnt work on a shoestring budget (often claimed) . Bothroyd - never sold - left for nothing. Ledley -never sold- bid from Stoke rejected- left for nothing. Whitts never sold left for nothing.

Obviously there were sales players had ambitions of playing at a higher level.

However Jones was backed and we held on to players we could have sold for big money.

From memory without looking into it.

Chopra, McCormack, Loovens, Ramsey, Johnson, Jerome, Alexander, Hasselbeck, and Heaton were any of them sold?

I may be off the mark, but I seem to remember he had to sell a big name most years?

[The Lone Gunman]

Lamouchi had good games and awful games (the awful games clearly as bad as we looked under Hudson) but in general you felt like he was trying to get the team playing a certain way and had a plan for each game.

I genuinely never felt that way. Most of the time I had no idea what style of football Lamouchi was trying to employ or what his plan was for games. Some of his team selections seemed totally random.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

It would probably come as no surprise that neither manager features among City's finest gaffers. Mark Hudson has the joint 5th worst win percentage, alongside Jimmy Goodfellow and only Bobby Gould, Paul Trollope, Graham Williams and Terry Yorath can boast a worse rate. Meanwhile, Sabri Lamouchi's loss percentage is 6th worst in our history, just behind Williams, Trollope, Goodfellow, Yorath and Alan Durban. Hudson's problems were lack of wins, Lamouchi's were too many defeats. Both lie 22nd out of 38 in terms of wins (Lamouchi) and defeats (Hudson), so not great, but reasonable for a team that has struggled like we have this season.

Both managers rank in the bottom 10 for goal scoring. Lamouchi's defensive record is the 13th worst of any City manager, but there's a bit of a surprise as Hudson's side had the 5th best defensive record for any City manager, only bettered by Kenny Hibbitt, Lennie Lawrence, Frankie Burrows and Bill McCandless. In fact, in terms of just league games, Hudson's City would have been ranked 3rd. Quite remarkable considering how poor we were under him (and through the whole season).

Home form, as it has been for the last three seasons at least, has been dire. Hudson's home record overall is the 2nd worst in terms of wins, Lamouchi's is ranked 5th worst. Lamouchi's goals conceded and defeat percentage are also within the bottom 10.

Only McCandless, McCarthy and Harris have better away win percentages than Lamouchi, though only 8 managers have worse way defeat percentages. Hudson's away defensive record is 3rd best among City managers.

Despite a few surprising stats, it's difficult to say that either manager, statistically at least, was better than Solskjaer.

Surely points per game is a more meaningful statistic than win or loss percentages.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Surely points per game is a more meaningful statistic than win or loss percentages.

In a historical context, because of the old system of 2 points for a win, it isn't just a case of converting wins to 3 points. There used to be more draws until 3 points for a win was introduced.

[Cyclops]

My tuppence (fwiw) is that Hudson inherited a decent defensive set-up and can't really be commended for the goals against fugure assigned to him.

Lamouchi, at the very least got us scoring goals, which was vital to keep us up.

Overall, they were managerial dregs - something that Tan did get right.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

From memory without looking into it.

Chopra, McCormack, Loovens, Ramsey, Johnson, Jerome, Alexander, Hasselbeck, and Heaton were any of them sold?

I may be off the mark, but I seem to remember he had to sell a big name most years?

Chopra was sold for £5m, we bought him back for £4m and sold him again for £1.5m.
McCormack went for a low 6 figure sum.
Loovens went for just over £2m
Ramsey was a steal at £5m
Johnson was sold for £5m
Jerome went for around £4m
Alexander's contract expired and he wasn't played at the end of his last season to avoid activating an appearance bonus.
Hasselbaink retired.
Heaton went on a free to Bristol City.

In addition, Chris Gunter went to Spurs for anything between £2-4m.

6 players left during Jones's time with us for £2m and more. Our seventh best transfer fee was £750k, miraculously paid to us for Steve McLean.

In all bar Jones's last season did we sell at least one player for millions, though in 2009/10 we used funds from the sale of Roger Johnson to spend millions on Chopra.

It is widely known that Jones and Ridsdale had a general policy of paying little or nothing in transfer fees and using that money to pay decent wages instead.

It might be interesting to note that 3 of the 6 million pound transfer fee players were bought during the time Jones was with us - Johnson, Loovens and Chopra, so it was hardly a case that Jones was regularly turning his transfers into million pound players.

In both 2009/10 and 2010/11 we spent more on transfers than we recouped.

[LA Bluebird]

I genuinely never felt that way. Most of the time I had no idea what style of football Lamouchi was trying to employ or what his plan was for games. Some of his team selections seemed totally random.

No doubt, he had his share of shockers when it came to team selection. But at least on the field for me it felt like it made sense what he was trying to do… get the ball back and quickly get it to our big front men. He was definitely helped by having two strikers that the previous managers didn’t have for the whole time, but he also got Etete playing somewhat effectively in the role.

Hudson I genuinely had no clue what the plan was other than to run about a bit and pass the ball around. It’s a low bar but to me Lamouchi cleared it. For whatever that is worth.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

In a historical context, because of the old system of 2 points for a win, it isn't just a case of converting wins to 3 points. There used to be more draws until 3 points for a win was introduced.

Fair dinkum, old fruit.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Hudson I genuinely had no clue what the plan was other than to run about a bit and pass the ball around. It’s a low bar but to me Lamouchi cleared it. For whatever that is worth.

Yes, that's it in a nutshell. Lamouchi wasn't quite as shit as Hudson so some are of the opinion he's worth keeping on as we could end up with worse.

Similar scenario. Man goes to a pub for some food. It tastes like shit. The following week he goes to another pub for some food. It's not great by any means, but a little better than the first pub. A week later he returns to the second pub instead of looking for somewhere better again because it wasn't quite as bad as the first pub.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Chopra was sold for £5m, we bought him back for £4m and sold him again for £1.5m.
McCormack went for a low 6 figure sum.
Loovens went for just over £2m
Ramsey was a steal at £5m
Johnson was sold for £5m
Jerome went for around £4m
Alexander's contract expired and he wasn't played at the end of his last season to avoid activating an appearance bonus.
Hasselbaink retired.
Heaton went on a free to Bristol City.

In addition, Chris Gunter went to Spurs for anything between £2-4m.

6 players left during Jones's time with us for £2m and more. Our seventh best transfer fee was £750k, miraculously paid to us for Steve McLean.

In all bar Jones's last season did we sell at least one player for millions, though in 2009/10 we used funds from the sale of Roger Johnson to spend millions on Chopra.

It is widely known that Jones and Ridsdale had a general policy of paying little or nothing in transfer fees and using that money to pay decent wages instead.

It might be interesting to note that 3 of the 6 million pound transfer fee players were bought during the time Jones was with us - Johnson, Loovens and Chopra, so it was hardly a case that Jones was regularly turning his transfers into million pound players.

In both 2009/10 and 2010/11 we spent more on transfers than we recouped.

Great stats

Good Manager in my book one of our best