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The 2022 home office reports states that 61% of asylum seeker coming on small boats (2021 figures) would have their application accepted e.g. For the top 10 countries of origin arriving by small boat, 61% of initial decisions made in the 18 months to June 2021 would have resulted in refugee protection being granted, the report states. This compares with 52% of decisions made for all nationalities in the same period, eventually accepted. The report shows 59% of appeals are likely be allowed for the top 10 countries of origin, compared with 46% for appeals allowed for all countries. For example, 59% of appeals by Iranians are likely to be successful, as are 69% of Sudanese appeals and 73% of appeals by Syrians.Originally Posted by JamesWales
This completely contradicts the government and right wing medias narrative.
Therefore - if people on small boats are hiding paperwork from authorities - the 2022 home office report did not mention it and that is not reflected in the above figures.
However, one of the biggest problems with small boats is that because legal routes are closed AND we are not actively participating in the EUAA Resettlement and Humanitarian Admission (RST&HA). We (UK) is doing little to try and end conflicts where these refugees are coming from or work with their surrounding countries.
People should be asking these questions:
why are we not working with European partners to harmonise approaches with refugees?
why has the prosecutions (in the UK) for people smugglers and human traffickers actually gone down? (look at the https://www.ons.gov.uk/ data)
why hasn't the government opened processing centres in Europe so people can go to a centre rather than risk the small boat crossing?
why did the boat crossings NOT stop when the rwandan policy was introduced?
if rwanda is such a utopia then why does the government use it as a deterrent? is it a carrot or a stick?
if rwanda is such a wonder opportunity for asylum seekers, why have they all fled (from other similar schemes) from rwanda detention centres when placed there?
rwanda has admitted they process just a handful of asylum claims a year - they do not have the systems to process more than 100 and the money we have given to rwanda has ONLY gone into building prisons for them, not any administration.
there is no guarantee that asylum claims will even be processed and asylum claims honoured in rwanda.. in fact rwanda has granted 0 people from Afghanistan/Iraq and Iran right to remain over the last few years.
so what will happen to those refugees who are denied right to remain in rwanda? historically rwanda has treated such people absolutely appallingly.
why is it costing £170,000 per person we send?
why has the government, who keep shouting about the problem, reduced significantly the staff working on claims and yet will spaff money away on ridiculous and expensive schemes like rwanda?
I could go on, and on, but let's all remember, the Tories have been in power for 13 years and has allowed this absolute cluster**** to evolve into this current situation ... however, they will now blame 'woke' judges for stopping what they say is the golden ticket solution - which even from this thread shows that it never was a proper solution in the first place.
Before people accuse me of being a Tory hater (which is totally true)... I do not think that labour has a coherent or workable solution for the problems raised in this thread. Would things be better under labour.. undoubtedly they would be better (on the basis that the bar is SO low). But would they be good... nah..
I thought they had got rid of quentin letts but he's clearly alive and well
Great answers - however the african elephant is still in the room (no pun intended). All good stuff - but back to reality:
We cant process the ones that are here quick enough hence the never ending backlog.
Lets take it at face value though - as of Monday - you have found them all - a house to live in, a job to work, a school place, and all the other stuff like Doctors, Dentists etc etc.
You still have a problem - for over 20 years - they have still been coming in (successive Govts on all sides havent been able to stop it) - so the problem doesnt go away - it gets worse - as people now realise - hey no problem, look what the great people in the UK are doing for me and so more come and we have to do the same with them (as you suggested) - and then more come etc - you now have an exponential problem
It's a great idea - get them all to work - give them a job and a home - but the practicalities of it are ultimately unsolvable. So as much as I admire the 'easy' solution - I think it's a little bit more complicated than that - unfortunately.
Braverman who says she's going after the smugglers and the boat operators .....for the British people ! .......is as you say presiding over a system whereby FEWER people involved in this rotten trade .....she likes to emphasise this ......are being brought before the courts for their actions ?
It's all bullshit from them
Tough on the people smugglers ? Get on with it then
I agree with you , the labour party are full of shit but at least after 13 years of lies from tory home secretaries they should be given a go
I’m not laughing at the situation, I’m laughing at you. You’ll do anything you can to avoid blaming the current people in power.
Instead of blaming them for coming up with a ridiculous, expensive and widely criticised plan, you blame old racist judges for shooting that plan down.
You complain people are abusing a broken system but won’t criticise the government who haven’t fixed, or even attempted to fix, the broken system in their 14 years in power. In fact, under the Tories, the problem has only gotten worse.
You complain that we’ve got a severe housing crisis so can’t accommodate migrants, but you ignore that the government have done very little to address that housing crisis for years.
As for your last point, I’ll go grab the Daily Mail and you pick up the Guardian. We both know which one’s more likely to have an article slagging off a single mum on benefits for buying a pack of fags or a bike for her kid.
Why can't we process them more quickly?
Let's unpack that - the Home Office has had a huge problem with recruitment, training and retention of staff who process asylum claims. Last year they did recruit more staff but they can't hold onto them.. why? whistleblowers will claim poor working conditions and unrealistic targets and also interference / pressure from the home office.
Also, while there has been an increase in numbers arriving this has been made worse by leaving the EU as we now have NO returns agreement with the EU - all the more reason why we should have processing centres in key areas in Europe and work with European partners.
Can you see the irony (and by irony I mean stupidity) on spending £170000 per person we want to spend to Rwanda and yet the government are not investing in recruitment and retention of staff or setting up European satellite centres... all would cost so much less than the money currently being spent on hotels and stupid deals with Rwanda.
From a purely economic basis - we could offer the EU £50k per person to have them in Europe and still save £120k per person (more when you add hosting and processing costs)! So the Rwanda scheme is wrong both morally and economically.
In 2021 - of the more than 17,000 potential returnees only 21 had been returned. Some have now been allowed to make asylum claims - but it appears more than 9,000 are in a limbo: housed by the Home Office, yet blocked from applying to legally stay and get a job. Absolutely bonkers.
This is a mess of the governments own making and there were and are other solutions, some of which I and others have outlined here.
Like I said... the Tories have completely and utterly messed up the system and it is now overwhelmed and costly but at the same time I do not see any long term plan by labour for fixing the problems.
Anyway... at least the conversation on here is respectful and intelligent= BUT i think it is an indication that city need to sign some players - maybe they are working on their work visas ;)
I'm sure some of these immigrants play football; let's sign them up.
I don't think it is something of the govts own making. It's a problem affecting many countries.
The govt have met their requirements in terms of housing and caring for people and they have tried to reduce numbers but with limited success. They have dramatically reduced numbers from Albania - which was the most outrageous example of exploitation of the system.
They are trying to build disincentives to coming, and have now lost this case and will be appealing. At every turn they are thrwarted, generally by opinions and institutions you would support. So no, I don't really blame them. At least they recognised the problem sooner (whilst others were still shouting racism!) and arec trying to do something and at least seemingly care about the issue and the impact upon many communities, which many don't seem to care about.
The problem is, you make no account for numbers whatsoever. People just assume the UK can absorb any number of people and there is no impact on society. But there is. It takes years to plan social services, housing, health and education places.
More than 13?
You want them to send 1000s a month to a country that currently processes a handful of claims a year. It's not everyone else who has no grasp of the numbers, it's you.
Nobody is saying absorb them, they are saying process them quickly and send them home, like we used to.
We processed more claims in 2002, why have we got so much worse at doing something seemingly so simple, you seem to know where they are all from so why doesn't the home office?
I'm now deeply suspicious that this government is desperate for the problem to get worse and for the policy to be blocked on legal grounds. Their only chances of winning the next election are either starmer turning trans or the Tories managing to whip people into a 2016 'everyone from Turkey is moving here imminently' style frenzy.
These things are typically delivered locally. But yeah a govt cant plan years in advance for an incalculable number of people
Bingo! It's their only hope in Hell. Bring back Brexit fever and start dusting down those old Union Jacks.
It takes years to plan for something that they can't plan years in advance for?
The number isn't incalculable. We know how many are coming over and we know how many we accept. If we wanted to we could put a hard limit on the precise number of people we let in which would make the number extremely calculable.
Forget the backlog issues and expanding that.
Like I said - you were PM today - by Monday - you had found them all somewhere to live, you have found them a job and got them access to schools, Dr's / Dentists etc. All good, you have fixed the immediate problem - well done.
But the problem still exists - small boats keep on arriving, only this time there is more as they now look at what you have done as PM, think - wow this is great and they do the same - jump on a small boat.
You still wont have fixed the small boat issue (unless you know something that Blair,Brown,Cameron,Clegg,May,Johnson,Truss,Sunak didnt know)
Within a matter of months you would be back to square 1 again, but it would be worse - so you would repeat your first policy of finding the second lot - homes, jobs, schools Drs etc and so on. You problem would be exponential - and you still would not have fixed it eg stopping small boats, trains, container lorries etc.
As with all things in life - when someone says well I'd just do that - bish bash - fixed - it very rarely is and it's usually a bit more complicated - which is why successive UK govts have failed.
This is a stupid scenario though. Nobody in here is saying we should let everyone who arrives stay. If you want to raise the bar for approval of an asylum case then that's another issue entirely.
Agree with the last part, which is why the Rwanda policy being heralded by braverman as the magic bullet is nonsense. It's an expensive policy that cheapens us as a nation, crosses moral and potentially legal red lines and might not even reduce crossings. Doesn't sound like it ticks many boxes to me.
Yes they were - which is why I asked the question if you were PM today what would you do. And then asked ok - you have solved the problem re housing them, schools, jobs for them etc . Then more arrive - as you havent fixed the small boats problem - and so it goes round and round in circles exponentially.
From what I can see the Govt here is trying to do what Australia did quite a few years ago.
No we are not
And us who don't vote for the tory war machine are not happy with the situation
I think most of us want sensible policy and if possible removals but we don't want to throw those that arrive here back into the sea
It's going to happen , people are going to sneak in over and above legitimate migration
What the Tories have spent 13 years doing is failing to manage this
What we have now ? Braverman and her disciples stoking up hatred to try and win votes
I'd go back and check your answers.
I said would you let them all stay, and now you are saying that is not what you were arguing for.... ffs
What is it :-
1. Let them all stay - give them a job, somewhere to live get them working
2. Put them in hotels in the UK
3. Move some of them on to another country
I think they are the 3 options on the table. Which one gets your vote ?. You said you werent arguing to let them all stay - so I guess that rules out 1 & 2 . So Im not quite sure where that leaves you.
Maybe you have the answer - that so far as been missed by Blair/Brown/Cameron/Clegg/May/Truss/Johnson/Sunak
You're wasted in whatever job you're doing - you could be a worldwide tour de force with your policies. Now's your big moment ...
Here's your big moment
Feck off you tory cnut I fecking hate you traitorous Welsh twats voting for them
Is that it ? It's the wizard of Oz moment , you pull back the curtain and find....absolutely nothing at all, just a shouty little angry man with issues with anyone who dares not to have the same political opinion as themselves.
Enjoy your weekend.
You are a tory and like the rest of them are a weasel who will bust a blood vessel defending them
I am turning over a new leaf . You and your acolytes can all rot and I am bored of debating the toss with people who wouldn't be part of my social life if I had a week to live .
You are all the same , pretending you are soft , liberal Tories, sometimes saying you will vote elsewhere but lying through your arses .
If you were brought up in Ely you are a complete traitor .
Now naff off
This morning the papers are reporting there will be a referendum on the ECHR to sidestep all this kerfuffle. I can well imagine Braverman’s teeth grinning like a Cheshire cat, the public groaning a year before an election, and the bleeding hearts everywhere reaching for their Prozac.
I feel for poor Polly Toynbee and her lowly paid rent-a-vent crew in the Guardian and like-minded windbags in The Independent. Clearly not getting any bedroom activity for thirty years Poor Polly is about to blow her lid on this one.
She’ll be there one evening, huffing and puffing away with her poison pen, and I can easily see an artery or aorta blowing. Still, look on the bright side. It’s spare juice and a donation elsewhere for someone’s transfusion. There’s always an upside to a downside. It’s not all doom and gloom.
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