Reply With QuoteI belive voting for Starmer is voting tory.Originally Posted by Hilts
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Well you are certainly not centralist
The Tories are the party for backstabbers
Survival of the fittest etc etc
I belive voting for Starmer is voting tory.
I don't disagree with the idea that the leadership election (both, if the second one counts) were complete set ups but I think saying she would have 'walked an election' when she would have been inheriting a party 8-10% behind in the polls with all the macro issues facing truss/sunak still in play is an extreme reach.
As for her polling, well fullfact struggled to decipher her claims but clearly her messaging about being wonderfully popular got across.
https://fullfact.org/news/penny-mord...armer-polling/
That's about the size of it although I draw the line at actually voting for him. As the saying goes, you'll only encourage him.
Yes, depressing. There are good reasons for this recent phenomenon of ineffective leaders, a strong view that I have personally held since the financial crisis.
Looking at what has happened since then, and looking forward, I see no reason for it to change for anothet five years at least.
yes very depressing what ever your standpoint in politics
to me the quicker we can get rid of the WEF the better if the western world doesn't want to live like China
come on join me over here
�� All in a days work.
— Anti WEF (@ANTlWEF) June 26, 2023
We’ve been here for NINE weeks now. New banners, graphics and expanding to other cities would be great ����
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So who are you going to vote for then ?
I genuinely have no idea. I previously lived in Blaenau Gwent and we had a couple of (genuinely) independent candidates who actually got in such was the dissatisfaction with the local Labour Party. I also voted Plaid last time even though I don't like them because the candidate was excellent. I'm in mid Wales now where it's a battle between the Tories and Lib-Dems. I can't vote for either, the former for obvious reasons and the latter because of their despicable turn of face over tuition fees when they joined the coalition.
So I've no idea.
I think if I were you I'd vote for the party I hate least and hopefully that's not the Tories in your case. If the result depended on one vote you'd no doubt kick yourself if the party you hated most won.
I understand that's how it works for a lot of people but not me. I want to vote for positive reasons and i don't see much of that in today's Labour party. If the Tories get back in then they get back in. I won't be breaking open a bottle if Labour gets in either.
They are more likely to get in if moderate voters like you don't bother voting or don't vote Labour because they are not a lot better than the tories
A Labour led coalition is going to do more than Labour in opposition and yet another tory government
Starmer is hopeless and the likes of Raynor and the trendy left make me cringe but it's the best of a bad bunch really
We can't just sit there because if we do then we can't complain
I agree that's a fair possibility. I am just not willing to give my endorsement to a shower like Labour, and Starmer particularly. He has made it clear that he won't be making any radical changes. He'd be less corrupt I'l give him that. But, other than that, I'm not convinced we'd see much difference.
I won't complain if I don't vote Labour - which I won't - and the Tories get in again. I'll wait until Labour can offer something I actually support. I understand what you are saying. I just can't go along with it and I'm willing to suffer the consequences. Maybe it will lead to a better Labour Party in the long run. Maybe it won't.
I've asked this before but never got much of an answer, but aside from the general benefits of a change of govt that does typically rejuvenate most democracies (and would do in Cardiff Bay and Westminster) what do people think will really change under Labour?
What are the big ticket improvements to look forward to? Or are they more about the tone of govvernment etc? Which is a reason in itself, but doesn't impact on most people's lives much.
I can't get enthusiastic about any of them really.
There's appears to be a loose acknowledgement that government needs to be involved in the delivery of the basic needs of its citizens. I am clinging to that.
When it comes to energy, water, education, housing, transport etc. the government shouldn't just be an entity that hands out licenses, it is responsible for people.
Do I think labour will go as far as we need to go to see real change, probably not but I think more than ever there is a realisation and maybe majority support for the idea that quite a large part of the privatisation of this country has not been good in any way for ordinary people. Does that mean instantly nationalising everything, no.
I am also looking forward to someone boring being in charge. Rishi could be that but integrity and accountability fizzled away very quickly.
Labour have got a very tough job on their hands presuming they win a majority (or near as) at the next election.
I have an acquaintance who took did his bar exam with Keir (they both passed). Starma went to DPP - the acquaintance went into prosecution and then military court-martial. We have talked Keir Starma many times over a pint and there are 2 things that always come up
1. He had no personality whatsoever.
2. He is in no way in any shape or form a Socialist.
I actually think he will be worse than anything the Tories leaders had to offer, just look at the so-called lefties who were in charge in Canada, Australia and NZ, they were tyrants.
3 . You and your mate are fecking Tories
Presume you were pissed when you scrawled that ?
I don't drink
You and your mate
Raving Tories
Laughing gas ?
Quite glad to hear Sludge doesn't drink tbf
If he doesnt drink then I cant think of any other excuse to explain his behaviour - other than he's just filled with hate and self loathing (that will be Thatchers fault obviously)
I just think the Tories are cnuts and that's the way it is
I have nothing to do with them in life
It's like sitting next to someone with BO
I think Tories are essentially selfish and don't care about society , only themselves . I don't associate with people like that . I know some Tories but they are boring windbags much like JamesWales . I don't like to waste my social time on people who I have absolutely nothing in common with and indeed I really don't like .
That's the way it is .
Starmer just needs to do a Joe Biden. Stay in the basement say nothing and he'll win. The only way back for the tories is that Starmer and or his crew start promising outlandish undeliverable promises, he could help himself by just confirming he understands what a woman is.
My hope is that starmer gets in and defeats the filth
Then dies the next day in a bizarre gardening accident
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