Reply With Quote'This is Starmer's first mistake'?
Really?
You haven't been paying attention, have you.
| + Visit Cardiff FC for Latest News, Transfer Gossip, Fixtures and Match Results |
Starmer will soon make a speech in Kent about "snobbery" in education. The central claim and assumption is that non-vocational education is discriminatory and letting children down, and that academic education is, and should be, for everyone.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...dren-get-ahead
But is it snobbery?
I can see both academic and non-academic people giving this short shrift. Some people are interested in academia. Some are more practical / vocational and not so interested in advanced maths, history, philosophy etc. as it simply does nothing for their future career or job. I find it odd that Starmer says that not making all children be academic is "snobbery". This is a good example of upper middle class people, or rich people, showing their sense of "noblesse oblige". They mix and operate in social bubbles, never mixing with the working classes, nor socialising with people who are have vocational work. Disconnected. Just like Nick Clegg. Just like Boris. Just like Rich-y Soon-Out. And so it is for Starmer, the North London millionaire QC that he is.
Prior form from politicians
This isn't the first time we have heard such pompous diagnosis of doom for those poor non-academics. It was ever thus in the 1960s and 1970s when there was a groundswell amongst the political elite that grammar schools were snobby and technical colleges were for down-and-outs. As a result we have people going through university, thinking that there are more clever people than they really are. I see it in the City. Amongst the bright sparks, I also see plenty of overrated dirge. On the other side, and unlike Germany, we have a lack of appreciation for technical apprenticeships and engineering. We need to stop attacking the vocational education route. It is horses for courses, and all horses need to choose their own paddock, rather than all being whipped in the same direction.
Bubbled snobbery elsewhere - social circles
The real snobbery here is upper middle class bubbled folk pitying the vocationally trained - the car mechanics, plumbers, joiners, production operatives, car manufacturing engineers and the like. They look down on them with a false sense of superiority because they "read Philosophy at Cambridge" and "these poor sods didn't". My grandfather went to Pontypridd boys grammar school because he was intelligent. But he never liked it and left at 14 to work in the coal mines with his friends, and chiefly to support his ill parents. He just wanted a job where he could use his very good arithmetic skills, but never had an interest in studying calculus nor algebra. It simply wasn't of any practical use to him. He ended up in factory as a foreman on Trefforest Industrial estate in the 1960s and 1970s. He loved his job. An honest days wage for an honest days work, and a bit of overtime when needed. Not everyone wants an academic education even if they are clever. Not everyone is fit for it either. And many non-academics do well without it, thank you. And I say that, as an academic myself.
But these bubbled people, where lawyer socialises with lawyers, and accountants only mix with their work accountants mates, and directors with directors (because they are useful networks) are often unaware that many self employed plumbers and carpenters, car mechanics running their own garages, and engineers working their way up, is that salaries of £45,000-£70,000 are quite achievable. Ladies running their own hairdresser salons or coffee chops can earn £30k a year and enjoy their job mixing with all in the community, enjoying their work, and taking a comfortable wage. This is clear to me, hanging out in my local rugby club, football club and local watering hole. Meanwhile, many academic accountants and teachers barely pass the 30k mark in many parts of the country, take work home and are even working on holidays. The Brucie Bonus is that many of these non-academic folk have no university debt and enjoy their weekends quite freely without having to "log on to catch up", or have "worlidays" (working on holidays).
Horses for Courses
If only these bubbled, wealthy, middle class / upper class people suffering from middle class guilt would stop reading the bubbled "mea culpa" stories in The Guardian, The Independent and The Times, stopped trying to be Mother Theresa to all sundry and assessed themselves first. If they actually got involved in the local communities they would see that "reading at Uni" isn't for everyone. But that is where the real snobbery lies - what elite lawyer or director mixes with a local car mechanic and plumber, eh? Oh no, not a "valuable social network contact" there is there? Bubbled inside their own cocoons. Oblivious to life outside it. As ignorant as they come.
Politicians of all colours should be sorting out the national debt, generating a sound economy, and providing basic services. Not being a Nanny State and telling us what choices to make, and to wipe our own arse with. Humans adults can think for themselves - if they are allowed to think like adults, and not be baby-fied by pompous, preaching politicians. This is Starmer's first mistake. I wonder how the electorate will read this faux pas?
'This is Starmer's first mistake'?
Really?
You haven't been paying attention, have you.
Is this Sir Keir's version of the 'Ed' Stone ?
That some intern thought up - that everybody else laughed at.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...tion-limestone
edstone.jpg
Pledge 4 should have a No at the start of the sentence
Judging by the polls I am keeping a very close eye. You may have a different opinion, but so far the polls keep tugging in the direction of "Keir Starmer, The Pound Shop Obama." Any critical mistakes would have been reflected in the polling. If I were Keir, I wouldn't say too much. I would just sit back and watch interest rates rising sharply, taking us to a recession, as it will not correct sufficiently before the election, and Rich-Y Soon-Out would be whooped without as much Starmer raising a glove.Originally Posted by jon1959
The more "big stuff" he says like this, this far out of an election, the more ammunition he gives the bluenoses to hit him with.
So far, so good. Let's see what the media make of this.
Ed Millipede. Dear oh dear. What a geek. He just could never look good on a poster could he? Like his brother, what a grifter-in-chief. His brother David went to "work for charity" in the U.S when he smelt danger. Hell of a charity he is doing - he is creaming a £500k salary for his troubles. Awfully, charitable, bless him. How considerate.
Like the Clintons, Bidens, Kennedys and Bushes. Grifters off the back of the other people - the lot of them. "Help" to these people means "helping themselves".
Hopeless leader
And another in a long list that labour have elected
Blair had the charisma needed for modern politics but he was soon acting like a snake
I would vote green , independent , Liberal, literally anything to get the Tories out
That people are still going to be holding their nose whilst voting Labour shows how useless starmer and Labour are
I hope he gets in , has to retire from some mysterious affliction and Labour form a rainbow coalition with the liberals and hippies and bring in PR to keep the Tories out for good
He's absolutely hopeless and weak and a dreadful speaker using clever language that is straight out of university halls of residence
Get shot of him
You could always get a laminated Angie 'scum' Raynor poster to put up on your bedroom wall - or perhaps Lady Nugee (Emilly Thornberry) is more your idea of a good socialist role model.
Obviously if you like your politics to not involve anti semitism (Human Rights Commission report) you could be a bit stuck
Sure. We know your views. But as a chap who has been around the block for a few decades, what is your take on this education angle from Starmer? Do you agree with it, or not?
He's an idiot
I agree with Raynor but she made the mistake of saying it in political office
I am not a socialist
However it's laughable that the tory party faithful who get lots of support from thick xenophobics think they can lecture others on anti semitism
I mean take a look at the history of the daily mail , the tory party's biggest friend
Listening to LBC about 30 mins ago - they analysed what Sir Keir said today. Basically a direct take from Michael Gove (who probably had the idea from someone else anyway)
Re the bigoted snobbery of education and having to have a degree for any job that's deemed worthy. He must have forgotten that Blair introduced student tuition fees in 1998 for all graduates and post grads.
I think I preferred old Labour under Corbyn / Abbott / Richard Burgeon et al. But I would definitely listen in for Suzy Eddie Izzard is 'they' got elected
"I am not a socialist" Sludge - WTF what are you then - unless of course the hippy crack has been delivered to your local spar...maybe that explains it.
ps - never read the Daily Mail or the Guardian - they are as bad as each other in terms of their levels of 'non' bias
Never read The Guardian? How did you find this, osmosis?
Image search on google
You are about as dyed in blue tory as they come
You can ponce about on the fringes acting like you are discerning but you don't fool me
The sense of entitlement to rule is appalling and its only because the opposition is divided that this occurs
If starmer does win the election I hope he forces through proportional representation so we can stiff you lot for good
That would be the tory pledges wouldn't it ?
As despite telling all the thick goons who voted you in for 13 years that immigration would be dealt with ......your lot have crapped on your own troops !
If it was an issue for your voters .......its even more of a one now
You were asked on here last week - if you were PM how you would stop the small boats problem - you had no answer, other than waffle and name calling.
You were then asked if you gave everyone who applied, a job and somewhere to live, school etc etc - then what would you do when you have the same problem a year later (presuming that you still hadn't fixed the small boats problem) - no meaningful response.
It was never a problem for Blair as he wanted as many to come in as possible. But for everyone else since - it's been impossible to stop - Starmer would be no different.
ps my voting record - Foot (my dad virtually forced me to), Kinnock, Blair, Blair, Lib Dem, Cameron, I think Cameron again, Lib Dem, Boris (as anyone would have been better than the anti Semite) , if it came to it today between Rishi and Sir Keir - it would be Rishi - as on balance - he is the better communicator, not as plastic as Starmer. Plus I like the fact he is not usual pale and stale face of Labour or the Tory red trouser type.
So you just vote for a leader then.
So once your dad's influence was gone, it was all down hill in a rightwards direction?
PS - You don't have to keep banging that 'anti Semite' drum. It worked. Truth died and mud stuck. Now it's time to move on to the next target that's a threat to the people you admire and vote for, and a few more words and ideas that can be gutted of meaning!
This all reads like you have a massive chip on your shoulder.
I haven't seen the speech but have skimmed over their briefing doc and it seems mostly reasonable if slightly lacking detail/ambition for me.
https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/upl...n-barriers.pdf
You are the one name calling with your anti semite cobblers
It's straight out of the tory party guidebook and you are the centrefold
Cobblers?
In 2019, 86% of British Jews though there was a high level of antisemitism amongst Labour members..only 6% said the same about the Tories and Lib Dems and almost half (46%) said the same about UKIP!
Corbyn had his pros and cons like everyone but he did mix with some pretty shady characters and I think antisemitism did become a growing issue within the party under his watch.
Starmer has done well to stamp it out, perhaps even too overzealously sometimes because there is a grey area where antisemitism meets legitimate criticism of Israel.
https://www.survation.com/new-pollin...%20represented
Perception is important, but after 4 years of an orchestrated campaign by political opponents inside and outside the Labour Party, and the vast majority of the press and UK media (especially the 'liberal' media led by the Guardian and BBC) it is little wonder that those numbers came up. At the same time the general public thought that over 35% of Labour members (35% of 550,000 +) had been accused of anti-semitism. The actual figure was 0.1%. And many of those accusations were inventions - or were far right social media posts falsely attributed to Labour members. Many more were for the 'new anti-semitism' (invented in the 1990s) of opposing the political ideology of Zionism (especially by calling it inherently racist), opposing illegal settlement expansion and war crimes by Israel, supporting non-violent resistance to ethnic cleansing at the request of Palestinian civil society organisations, like BDS, claiming that the anti-semitism crisis in Labour was exaggerated, and even in a few cases of advocating a 2 state solution to Israel-Palestine in line with the UN and most world governments. A high proportion of Labour Party members charged with these 'crimes' were (and are) Jewish.
Corbyn was a disaster in dealing with 'the crisis', in large part because he constantly demonstrated his political pacifism by not standing up to it - by clearly identifying the real examples of anti-semitism (hatred of or discrimination against Jewish people) of which there were some, but explaining and rejecting the false allegations. He avoided conflict, offered compromises (where there should have been none), and eventually tried to paint himself as a more effective witch hunter than the Labour right. A doomed and flawed strategy that set back the fight against racism (especially anti semitism) for years and handed the Labour Party to Starmer. 200,000 members left (to the joy of the Starmer clique), the Forde report was ignored, the Board of Deputies retained its veto over parts of Labour's internal policy and membership rules, and the front bench fell over themselves to announce they were all-in Zionists.
Corbyn was a Brexiteer (just not vocal about it) actively campaigned previously to come out - just like Tony Benn.
The only party to have this done to them by the Human rights commission (I think the BNP had the same perhaps)
As a man he has always been a campaigner / criticiser - and then after 40 years of doing that - expects Labour MPs to tow his line.
Signs anti Semitic books without realising.
Then puts forward Shami Chakrabarti to be Dame - then asks her to investigate if the party is anti semitic - and remarkably she says no - whereas the Human Rights commission yes (strange one that).
Then leads his party into the biggest ever election defeat since 1930's - and claims he won. Maybe he's more like Trump than we gave him credit for.
And now in his place we have cardboard Keir - who ironically was the shadow Brexit secretary
Cardboard Keir ?
Raving tory alert , that sort of slur is straight out of the daily mail quotebook
Same as dripford etc
Everyone knows starmer is lacking in charisma and personality but come on for feck sake
Posting Permissions
