Thousands of drivers caught speeding a week after camera activated on main Cardiff road

[splott parker]

No they won't. All polls I see suggest at least 90% are against the new 20mph speed limits. I also notice the Welsh Conservatives are promising to overturn this if elected. Will it make any difference? Hardly. Had Plaid or the Lib Dems proposed to overturn it, there might have been a threat, but Wales will never vote in a Tory senedd, no matter what it promises.

Would be very interesting should a new administration be elected and they up the speed limits. The first fatal accident due to excess speed (it wouldn’t necessarily be excess speed but political opponents would jump on it) would lead to a fair bit of criticism and more, I reckon.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

And this is the important sentence, forget journeys taking a touch longer (I doubt that they do mind around a busy city), forget emissions or whatever, the very real chance that a hell of a lot less damage would be caused to a vehicle at 20 rather than above. But the statistic that outstrips everything is the likelihood of survival of a person being hit by a vehicle travelling at a low speed is considerably enhanced. In fact the actual chance of a motorist colliding with a pedestrian is very low given the increased reaction time. Leaving yourself a little bit longer for your journey is bugger all really.

Across Wales there were 569 pedestrian casualties in 2022. 19 of those were killed. It's interesting to delve into the statswales website to find out more.

320 pedestrians were hit by cars on unclassified roads (56%)
80 pedestrians were hit by cars on B roads (14%)
167 pedestrians were hit by cars on A roads (29%)

8 pedestrians were killed on A-roads, 5 on B-roads, 5 on unclassified roads.

8 pedestrians were killed on dual carriageways, 10 on normal single carriageway roads, 1 on a motorway.

8 pedestrians were killed in areas where the speed limit was 50mph, 2 in areas of 40mph, 8 in areas of 30mph and 1 in a 20mph area.

It might be interesting to some that 15 of the 19 fatalities occurred in good weather.

The Welsh Government has made a big point about pedestrian survival rate being much higher at 20mph, hence the reason for lowering the speed limits. Last year no-one was run over on a single carriage A-road with a speed limit of 30mph, only 4 were killed on B-roads with a speed limit of 30mph.

[JamesWales]

Absolute pisstake.

It's a total cash cow and the punishment simply does not fit the crime.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Would be very interesting should a new administration be elected and they up the speed limits. The first fatal accident due to excess speed (it wouldn’t necessarily be excess speed but political opponents would jump on it) would lead to a fair bit of criticism and more, I reckon.

Yes, which is probably why the Welsh Tories think they can back this as they have no chance of being able to bring it into being and be sitting ducks for the first fatality.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Absolute pisstake.

It's a total cash cow and the punishment simply does not fit the crime.

So what punishment would you like to see for speeding?

[Armitage Shanks]

Welcome to the socialist Republic of Wales with Chairman Drakeford in charge and that wet blanket lee Walters in charge of transport Wales has no hope.

[The Bloop]

Across Wales there were 569 pedestrian casualties in 2022. 19 of those were killed. It's interesting to delve into the statswales website to find out more.

320 pedestrians were hit by cars on unclassified roads (56%)
80 pedestrians were hit by cars on B roads (14%)
167 pedestrians were hit by cars on A roads (29%)

8 pedestrians were killed on A-roads, 5 on B-roads, 5 on unclassified roads.

8 pedestrians were killed on dual carriageways, 10 on normal single carriageway roads, 1 on a motorway.

8 pedestrians were killed in areas where the speed limit was 50mph, 2 in areas of 40mph, 8 in areas of 30mph and 1 in a 20mph area.

It might be interesting to some that 15 of the 19 fatalities occurred in good weather.

The Welsh Government has made a big point about pedestrian survival rate being much higher at 20mph, hence the reason for lowering the speed limits. Last year no-one was run over on a single carriage A-road with a speed limit of 30mph, only 4 were killed on B-roads with a speed limit of 30mph.

The WAGs own research estimates that the reduction to 20mph will save 9 lives over 30 years.

[The Bloop]

The WAGs own research estimates that the reduction to 20mph will save 9 lives over 30 years.

Apologies that bollocks. Its between 1 and 15 per year, the median is 9.

[JamesWales]

So what punishment would you like to see for speeding?

The punishment is appropriate as it was. Going 24mph on most of the roads in N.Cardiff is not speeding.

They have totally and unjustifiably refined the crime.

[The Bloop]

Apologies that bollocks. Its between 1 and 15 per year, the median is 9.

Googling 'Welsh government 20mph memorandum' links to a document with all the research and estimates. Makes interesting reading. The financial cost to the economy is £4.5bn over 30 years.

[JamesWales]

Googling 'Welsh government 20mph memorandum' links to a document with all the research and estimates. Makes interesting reading. The financial cost to the economy is £4.5bn over 30 years.

Yeah but they can blame Westminster for that £4.5bn

[splott parker]

The WAGs own research estimates that the reduction to 20mph will save 9 lives over 30 years.

That’s good, 9 fewer grieving families. I can’t see what the big deal is over the speed limits, whatever speed you’re going around the city it’ll always seems like a short burst to the queue at the next set of lights. Just seems like some folk seem to use anything to have a go, no matter how sensible some things are, at Mark Drakeford, making up silly names for him etc. There are worse things being done by those in authority in the UK than knocking a few miles off the speed limit.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

The punishment is appropriate as it was. Going 24mph on most of the roads in N.Cardiff is not speeding.

They have totally and unjustifiably refined the crime.

I'm confused, unless you are saying there should be no punishment for speeding.

[Whisperer]

Well if 20mph saves lives then it should be rolled out on all roads inc motorway..

[Eric the Half a Bee]

That’s good, 9 fewer grieving families. I can’t see what the big deal is over the speed limits, whatever speed you’re going around the city it’ll always seems like a short burst to the queue at the next set of lights. Just seems like some folk seem to use anything to have a go, no matter how sensible some things are, at Mark Drakeford, making up silly names for him etc. There are worse things being done by those in authority in the UK than knocking a few miles off the speed limit.

I live near Aberdare. Apart from the A4059 from Abercynon to the other side of the valley, the rest of the roads are virtually all 30mph, bar some 20mph stretches in residential areas. The "old" road from Aberdare to Abercynon is a B-road, which isn't great and has areas prone to traffic jams due to parked cars. There are also a few sections where there are no houses. The plan is to make the entire road 20mph, even in areas of half a mile or more where there are no houses. In areas that have had problems, there are speed humps and 20mph limits. Accidents that have happened along the road have generally been out of driver impatience.

The A4059 has been prone to several serious accidents between Abercynon and Mountain Ash in recent months. In fact, more people have died on that road over the years than the old B-road that runs virtually parallel to it. Nothing has been done to stop accidents on the A road. When that road closes, all traffic has to go up the old road, resulting in carnage.

It's my view that on roads like we have in the valleys, 20mph limits will cause far greater problems because of all the parked cars. At 30mph I'd expect to be able to get through a gap where cars are parked either side of the road, but at 20mph it'll be different. 30mph gets cars moving and off the B-road. 20mph will result in greater traffic build up, more frustration and more impatience.

[JamesWales]

I'm confused, unless you are saying there should be no punishment for speeding.

I'm saying that they have changed the definition of speeding.

I think murder should be punishable by a couple of decades in prison, but I don't think murder should be refined as slapping someone in the face.

So the issue is not the principle of some fines for dangerous speeding, it's that going over 20 in north Cardiff is not dangerous

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I'm saying that they have changed the definition of speeding.

I think murder should be punishable by a couple of decades in prison, but I don't think murder should be refined as slapping someone in the face.

So the issue is not the principle of some fines for dangerous speeding, it's that going over 20 in north Cardiff is not dangerous

Ah, so there should be no punishment for speeding if it's not dangerous?

[JamesWales]

Ah, so there should be no punishment for speeding if it's not dangerous?

No. Because the law should not be designed to punish innocent people.

If an offence has no victim, why punish them?

[splott parker]

No. Because the law should not be designed to punish innocent people.

If an offence has no victim, why punish them?

Punishment for things like exceeding the speed limit is better than waiting for an accident to enable punishment.

[jeepster]

Punishment for things like exceeding the speed limit is better than waiting for an accident to enable punishment.

well put.

[JamesWales]

And this is the important sentence, forget journeys taking a touch longer (I doubt that they do mind around a busy city), forget emissions or whatever, the very real chance that a hell of a lot less damage would be caused to a vehicle at 20 rather than above. But the statistic that outstrips everything is the likelihood of survival of a person being hit by a vehicle travelling at a low speed is considerably enhanced. In fact the actual chance of a motorist colliding with a pedestrian is very low given the increased reaction time. Leaving yourself a little bit longer for your journey is bugger all really.

Do you know how many less assaults would occur if we closed pubs at 11pm? Do you know how much more public funds would be released for schools if away fans were banned from football etc?

It's about balance, and 20mph is artificially, almost dangerously slow on some streets

[splott parker]

Do you know how many less assaults would occur if we closed pubs at 11pm? Do you know how much more public funds would be released for schools if away fans were banned from football etc?

It's about balance, and 20mph is artificially, almost dangerously slow on some streets

Veering off the subject a bit there. ‘Whataboutism’ can be used in nigh on every debate and is classic derailment.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

No. Because the law should not be designed to punish innocent people.

If an offence has no victim, why punish them?

I've read some bollocks on here over the years and that's right up there with the worst.

[Hilts]

If an offence has no victim, why punish them?

Fecks sake. Seriously??

[JamesWales]

Veering off the subject a bit there. ‘Whataboutism’ can be used in nigh on every debate and is classic derailment.

It's not whataboutism. It's about taking the argument that anything that makes us 'safer' should automatically become law with punishment and fines imposed