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Farmer
I believe he's better than this level and based on pre and early season he's better than Collins
I agree. Maybe a part of him signing a 3 year deal was that he gets a season under his belt on loan with a view to him being more of a part of the team longer term?Originally Posted by AdrianAlston
At some point with our young players (Colwill, Davies, Bagan and Tanner) we just have to gamble and actually play them regularly. Only giving them cameo appearances here and there can't be any good for their development.
Bagan I thought came on leaps and bounds two seasons ago, went through a great scoring patch and then the following season he was cast into the wilderness.
Collins is going to take time to get up to speed again. It is way too early to draw any meaningful conclusions on Collins. Bagan also cannot defend for toffee, him getting regular first team football can only be a good thing.
If they get good loans, you don’t have to gamble on them. Them getting first team football can only be a good thing. Colwill will be there or thereabouts this season but the rest are a way down the pecking order. They need game time.
Bagan thrived as a wing back, we stopped playing that and by the time we went back to it his confidence had nosedived and got exposed. He really needs to learn how to defend, too. He was a 10 before he came to Cardiff and it shows!
Belgium 2nd division? Is that really beneficial? I know they’re expected to push for an automatic return to the top division but it’s not my ideal of a good loan.
Got to get O’Dowda further forward as he isn’t a defender and he’s best supplying crosses. Began on his way out doesn’t help that prospect.
I guess it all depends on who wants you?
Bagan playing every week, gaining confidence while learning the basics for a defender, can only be a good thing for him.
Coming back stronger and more experienced can only be good for us.
He might also realise that he has no choice but to improve and kick on if he’s going to make a good career in the EFL
I like Bagan as a player and hopefully he’ll be back next season challenging for the Lb position.
We need all our young fringe players out playing in competitive leagues, not in the U23’s imho
Tanner and Evans should be next and possibly young Colwill going out for at least half a season
You make a good point, we keep on hearing how going out on loan benefits the younger players, but when you look at all of the loans out of players under the age of, say, twenty two in the last ten years or so, you have to ask how do Cardiff City benefit from it, because, invariably, it all ends with the player concerned being released by us.
What I will say is that at least the standard of the club some of our players have been loaned to is going up. However, in the case of the two players loaned to Belgian clubs, wee not talking about raw, wet behind the ears kids who have established themselves in our under 21 side. Two years ago, we were struggling badly and I'd argue that the influx of youngsters under Steve Morison mainly had a positive effect on a team that lacked vitality, zip and enthusiasm. The four loans brought in during January were probably the main reason we survived pretty comfortably in the end, but the contributions of Bagan, Davies and Colwill were all factors in getting us clear of the bottom three.
Last season we had what I think most of us would recognise as our worst team in a couple of decades and yet the three players I mentiooned barely got a look in. Yes, I know injuries didn't help in the case of two of them, but, even so, it's hard to get my head around the notion that three young players who more than held their own the previous season in a slightly better side were now struggling to get a game in a poorer one.
What can we deduce from that? Well, for me, the loaning out of Davies and Bagan and the fact that Colwill could not get into a twenty man squad last weekend suggests one of two things. Either they have regressed as players in the last two years or, true to form, Cardiff City are failing to handle the transition of players from genuine first team hopeful to established first team regular as well as others do. The loan moves for Davies and Bagan would look good if they were two years younger having just dipped their toe into the first team, but, at the end of 21/22 I don't think there would have been many predicting that they would be loaned out to obscure Belgian clubs for this season.
As to why we struggle so badly in this area, I think there are many small things which are contributory factors to the whole with one of them being the timidity of most of our managers when it comes to picking young players. In the case of Erol Bulut, we were told when he was appointed that his favourite age for a player was around twenty nine and that he seldom picked youngsters and, by and large, that's what we're getting him from him. So if he stays with us for a long time, maybe Davies and Bagan will have to wait about another five years before they start to get back to where they were eighteen months ago?
Savings in wages are probably as much a factor than anything else and when you research how many championship players are currently loaned out perhaps this level is the highest available at the moment, ( as he’s not going to be loaned to another Championship club ) and it’s got to better League 1 or 2 in terms of standard.
Agreed, although our/your confidence in Collins is based on 3 and a half games at the beginning of last season. The same games that Romeo and Sawyers came out with similar credit.
It looks like Collins is going to spend the last year of his contract as back up to O'Dowda. But then O'Dowda is a top player so there is no shame in that
It was way too early last season to draw any meaningful conclusions on Collins, but that didn’t stop people declaring he was a brilliant signing.
As regards Bagan’s loan, the Belgian second division is a complete unknown to me, but nevertheless I doubt it’s a better standard than League One.
The club he’s gone to were getting crowds around the 6,000 mark last season in the Belgian top flight. I know attendances are not a clear indication of quality, but I can’t imagine the football played at such a club is of an especially high standard.
I hope this loan aids in Bagan’s development and he comes back all the better for it, but it doesn’t have the feel of a decent move to me.
My worry is O Dowda is very injury prone.
At best you just hope Collins isnt up to speed and he will be good enough. Otherwise we are looking at Ralls or seriously worrying Simpson covering.
Assume it has a recall clause if injury hits again but I have to agree, this seems like an odd move for somebody you would guess would have had league 1 clubs interested.
Funny how quick we seem to have turned on Collins given a dodgy performance first game back in a game that was probably seen as nothing more than a decent tune up for him when he was being talked about as our savior a few weeks ago.
I wonder if they want them to go abroad, take them out their comfort zones. If he gets regular game time I think it’s a good move, same with Davies.
It’s a massive risk and I just hope it’s structured in a way we can recall if needed
I’m all for him getting game time and is very hit or miss as a player but not sure on what’s best for everyone.
This must have been discussed before he signed a new contract
What's the difference in standard between League 1 and Belgian second division?
No idea how accurate these are (some of these rankings are a bit odd but the best example I could find): https://www.teamform.com/en/league-ranking/europe - League 1 at 41, Belgian second tier at 78.
Also, even if it was the same standard (which it's not by general consensus) there's a lot to be said about playing in the same league structure with the same style of football with scouts being able to watch regularly and judge it against the Championship. It's not an awful move, but it is a bit odd they couldn't find a deal over here.
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