20mph online petition

[North Cardiff Blue]

It is confusing having a party who deliver on manifesto pledges. At least we all know where we stand with continuous U-turns based on whichever direction the wind is blowing .

Labour should have u turned, which means you've considered the issues at the time and acted accordingly, if you see it's going to be a disaster and lose your votes, why go ahead?

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Just driven through Radyr at 20mph. All the while a block was tailgating me, trying to overtake. He was motioning with his arm for me to pull in to let him pass. Idiot.

Oh, and he was riding an electric bike.

[Rjk]

Labour should have u turned, which means you've considered the issues at the time and acted accordingly, if you see it's going to be a disaster and lose your votes, why go ahead?

I don't think it will be a disaster, where's the disaster so far? a small amount of mild inconvenience is surely worth saving several lives?

to think of it another way, if there was a magic button you could press to make your commute 2 minutes shorter every day, but if you pressed it 10 random people in Wales would die would you press the button?

[dml1954]

I don't think it will be a disaster, where's the disaster so far? a small amount of mild inconvenience is surely worth saving several lives?

to think of it another way, if there was a magic button you could press to make your commute 2 minutes shorter every day, but if you pressed it 10 random people in Wales would die would you press the button?

Silly analogy anyway but where did you get the information that 10 peoples lives would be saved by these measures ? Surely you didn't believe the propaganda machine of the WAG and the bunch of loonies who are the co-inventors of the project (the campaign for walking and cycling everywhere, even if there is no public transport/trains/taxis or whatever the hell they are called). If so, you have been duped.

[Der Kaiser]

Silly analogy anyway but where did you get the information that 10 peoples lives would be saved by these measures ? Surely you didn't believe the propaganda machine of the WAG and the bunch of loonies who are the co-inventors of the project (the campaign for walking and cycling everywhere, even if there is no public transport/trains/taxis or whatever the hell they are called). If so, you have been duped.

The chance of someone being killed being hit by a car driving 30mph is significantly higher than at 20mph. It's as simple as that. If it slows people's days down a bit even to prevent 1 death, it is worth the reduction in speed limits.

Annoying and irritating behind the wheel, absolutely. Ultimately a minor inconvenience to make roads safer ? Also absolutely.

[dml1954]

It is confusing having a party who deliver on manifesto pledges. At least we all know where we stand with continuous U-turns based on whichever direction the wind is blowing .

I don't count a vague one line policy in a long document that almost no one reads as sufficient notice or detail of what their intentions actually were. This was obviously a deliberate ploy. They have gone way beyond what the insinuation was they would do and made the actual situation almost impossible to comprehend on the ground. Worse still, they have apparently fabricated information to baffle the public and back up what they have done. Over 426000 people have now pointed this out to them but they are choosing to ignore it. I am a law abiding citizen but in this particular case I make an exception. It is not a law, it is a diktat by a power mad megalomanic and his cronies.

[Der Kaiser]

I don't count a vague one line policy in a long document that almost no one reads as sufficient notice or detail of what their intentions actually were. This was obviously a deliberate ploy. They have gone way beyond what the insinuation was they would do and made the actual situation almost impossible to comprehend on the ground. Worse still, they have apparently fabricated information to baffle the public and back up what they have done. Over 426000 people have now pointed this out to them but they are choosing to ignore it. I am a law abiding citizen but in this particular case I make an exception. It is not a law, it is a diktat by a power mad megalomanic and his cronies.

Mark Jong Putin will have your internet off next everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PontBlue]

I don't count a vague one line policy in a long document that almost no one reads as sufficient notice or detail of what their intentions actually were. This was obviously a deliberate ploy. They have gone way beyond what the insinuation was they would do and made the actual situation almost impossible to comprehend on the ground. Worse still, they have apparently fabricated information to baffle the public and back up what they have done. Over 426000 people have now pointed this out to them but they are choosing to ignore it. I am a law abiding citizen but in this particular case I make an exception. It is not a law, it is a diktat by a power mad megalomanic and his cronies.

There was nothing vague in their manifesto about this.

[Rjk]

I don't count a vague one line policy in a long document that almost no one reads as sufficient notice or detail of what their intentions actually were. This was obviously a deliberate ploy. They have gone way beyond what the insinuation was they would do and made the actual situation almost impossible to comprehend on the ground. Worse still, they have apparently fabricated information to baffle the public and back up what they have done. Over 426000 people have now pointed this out to them but they are choosing to ignore it. I am a law abiding citizen but in this particular case I make an exception. It is not a law, it is a diktat by a power mad megalomanic and his cronies.

all the other places that have introduced this sensible measure - are they all diktats by power mad megalomaniacs as well?

[dml1954]

The chance of someone being killed being hit by a car driving 30mph is significantly higher than at 20mph. It's as simple as that. If it slows people's days down a bit even to prevent 1 death, it is worth the reduction in speed limits.

Annoying and irritating behind the wheel, absolutely. Ultimately a minor inconvenience to make roads safer ? Also absolutely.

That is your perception of the data but unfortunately not mine. The research used to back up their case was provided by the WAG themselves in conjunction with people they paid to do it. Hardly reliable. There are a range of reasons why people are killed on the roads and speed is only one of them. The logical conclusion to what the WAG is doing is that they will eventually ban all cars from the roads because that would save more deaths/injuries than allowing 20mph. If course, they would never do that, would they, because they would lose millions in revenue that they already squeeze out of cash strapped motorists.

[Hilts]

Drive today RCT to Caerphilly CBC area. Again the extra time was in seconds rather than minutes.

Also someone mentioned it was going to be harder to pull out at junctions or turn into roads. Completely the opposite today. Cars easily did both ahead of me as I was doing 20. They wouldnt have been able to do either if I was doing 30.

[Rjk]

That is your perception of the data but unfortunately not mine. The research used to back up their case was provided by the WAG themselves in conjunction with people they paid to do it. Hardly reliable. There are a range of reasons why people are killed on the roads and speed is only one of them. The logical conclusion to what the WAG is doing is that they will eventually ban all cars from the roads because that would save more deaths/injuries than allowing 20mph. If course, they would never do that, would they, because they would lose millions in revenue that they already squeeze out of cash strapped motorists.

that isn't a logical conclusion at all

[Tuerto]

I don't count a vague one line policy in a long document that almost no one reads as sufficient notice or detail of what their intentions actually were. This was obviously a deliberate ploy. They have gone way beyond what the insinuation was they would do and made the actual situation almost impossible to comprehend on the ground. Worse still, they have apparently fabricated information to baffle the public and back up what they have done. Over 426000 people have now pointed this out to them but they are choosing to ignore it. I am a law abiding citizen but in this particular case I make an exception. It is not a law, it is a diktat by a power mad megalomanic and his cronies.

Then get out on the streets, get organised and make your voice heard. Protest! You wont do anything, because the reality is that it isn't that inconvenient for you, it doesn't make that much difference to your life or anyone elses for that matter, except maybe those involved in a collision with a vehicle.

You have every right to be angry or disagree with the policy, but you and the rest will just sit on a football messageboard moaning and groaning. It's really funny watching the old Tories melting down. Keep up the good work

[Tuerto]

Drive today RCT to Caerphilly CBC area. Again the extra time was in seconds rather than minutes.

Also someone mentioned it was going to be harder to pull out at junctions or turn into roads. Completely the opposite today. Cars easily did both ahead of me as I was doing 20. They wouldnt have been able to do either if I was doing 30.

I drove from Birchgrove up to Cefn onn park. Caerphilly road is 20 mph, as is a section of Thornhill rd, which goes up to 30 just before the crematorium. The road through Thornhill,past Sainsbury's and on to the park was 20. I reckon that it put 2 minutes on my journey time.

[Tuerto]

I drove from Birchgrove up to Cefn onn park. Caerphilly road is 20 mph, as is a section of Thornhill rd, which goes up to 30 just before the crematorium. The road through Thornhill,past Sainsbury's and on to the park was 20. I reckon that it put 2 minutes on my journey time.

And that's a journey of about 3 miles

[dml1954]

all the other places that have introduced this sensible measure - are they all diktats by power mad megalomaniacs as well?

No idea. We live in Wales and the UK, so only interested in those areas. 426000 people disagree with you. 2700 agree with you.

[dml1954]

Then get out on the streets, get organised and make your voice heard. Protest! You wont do anything, because the reality is that it isn't that inconvenient for you, it doesn't make that much difference to your life or anyone elses for that matter, except maybe those involved in a collision with a vehicle.

You have every right to be angry or disagree with the policy, but you and the rest will just sit on a football messageboard moaning and groaning. It's really funny watching the old Tories melting down. Keep up the good work

Not a Tory. Not a Socialist either. Just don’t understand how anyone can support a man and a party who is basically ruining the Welsh economy and dictating to the population how they live their lives.

[dml1954]

Mark Jong Putin will have your internet off next everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How would you describe Mr Drakeford then ?

[dandywarhol]

20’s Plenty for Us signed by 15 groups including Action for Children, Cardiff Cycling Campaign, Friends of the Earth Cymru, Sport Wales, Living Streets Cymru, Action Vision Zero, Brake, Children in Wales, Cycling UK Cymru, UK Noise Association, Sustrans Cymru, RoadPeace, Playing Out, Play Wales and Natural Resources Wales

[steve davies]

That is your perception of the data but unfortunately not mine. The research used to back up their case was provided by the WAG themselves in conjunction with people they paid to do it. Hardly reliable. There are a range of reasons why people are killed on the roads and speed is only one of them. The logical conclusion to what the WAG is doing is that they will eventually ban all cars from the roads because that would save more deaths/injuries than allowing 20mph. If course, they would never do that, would they, because they would lose millions in revenue that they already squeeze out of cash strapped motorists.

I would think any lives they believe they are saving with this measure is more than being made up for with the ridiculous ambulance waiting times and then the amount of time it takes to get from that ambulance to an actual hospital bed that takes lives unnecessarily

[Der Kaiser]

That is your perception of the data but unfortunately not mine. The research used to back up their case was provided by the WAG themselves in conjunction with people they paid to do it. Hardly reliable. There are a range of reasons why people are killed on the roads and speed is only one of them. The logical conclusion to what the WAG is doing is that they will eventually ban all cars from the roads because that would save more deaths/injuries than allowing 20mph. If course, they would never do that, would they, because they would lose millions in revenue that they already squeeze out of cash strapped motorists.

There is a plethora of data and academic research widely available on the internet, or I suspect at your local library which indicates that being hit at 30mph is far more detrimental to the human body and life than at 20mph. It's not a perception, it's reading something and having the cognitive ability to understand that it is right.

Obviously a tonne plus vehicle hitting someone at a higher speed will do more damage than a vehicle moving slower.

Clearly no amount of evidence or data would swerve your opinion though, so it's irrelevant as you only want to focus on the small inconvenience to your day to day life.

[David Lemma]

I like going slow it feels calmer and annoys the right sort of people - those who like going fast

[PontBlue]

I drove from Birchgrove up to Cefn onn park. Caerphilly road is 20 mph, as is a section of Thornhill rd, which goes up to 30 just before the crematorium. The road through Thornhill,past Sainsbury's and on to the park was 20. I reckon that it put 2 minutes on my journey time.

That road by the crematorium does drop to 20mph far too soon but it was like that before the default speed limit change so would suggest it needs to be taken up with Cardiff council as to why they did this

[FungoFurore]

I very very rarely post here, but this thread is absolutely hilarious.

The level of overreaction is off the scale from some of you! We're talking about maybe a minute in extra journey times, basically FA in the grand scheme of things.

There was a Walescast episode a few weeks ago with Lee Waters talking about this - suggest you listen, as he explains things quite well: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0...n=share-mobile

[North Cardiff Blue]

I don't think it will be a disaster, where's the disaster so far? a small amount of mild inconvenience is surely worth saving several lives?

to think of it another way, if there was a magic button you could press to make your commute 2 minutes shorter every day, but if you pressed it 10 random people in Wales would die would you press the button?

There is no way you believe that nonsense you're just on a wind-up, 20 minutes and the same number will die anyway it''s made up nonsense.

A show of power too far, and will get the reaction it deserves and get Drippy the push, so at least it's done some good