The party of free speech..

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I don't have a 'lot' Bob. There's no need to be binary and party political.

We all know that if you go to an event like that and call out then you will very likely be removed. People who do it know so too, and they heckle in the knowledge that they will be removed. Like I said, seemed a little overzealous, but we don't know if he had been previously asked to keep quiet or not.

Yes you do you disingenuous individual

Your lot ....is the Tories

You ain't fooling anyone

Where do you live by the way ?

Just for the record

[JamesWales]

Yes you do you disingenuous individual

Your lot ....is the Tories

You ain't fooling anyone

Where do you live by the way ?

Just for the record

I really don't Sludge. What I do stand in opposition to is people with your approach to politics.

And we have examples of this here where you are casually throwing around claims /conspiracies about a major UK party secretly being racist, using non-white people as stooges, implying people shouldn't vote for them based on skin colour etc. Obviously your intention is to create division and fear.

It's pretty racist stuff, absolute guff and up there with the best of the Qanon crowd in America and I really do wish people would call people who make such unfounded and ridiculous claims out more.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I really don't Sludge. What I do stand in opposition to is people with your approach to politics.

And we have examples of this here where you are casually throwing around claims /conspiracies about a major UK party secretly being racist, using non-white people as stooges, implying people shouldn't vote for them based on skin colour etc. Obviously your intention is to create division and fear.

It's pretty racist stuff, absolute guff and up there with the best of the Qanon crowd in America and I really do wish people would call people who make such unfounded and ridiculous claims out more.

Division and fear naff off you soppy tart

Where do you live ?

[JamesWales]

Division and fear naff off you soppy tart

Where do you live ?

I live in Cardiff.

And isn't it the case that just like the Qanon crowd talk about some secret cabal of paedophiles at the heart of govt to scare parents, so too do people who talk of a secret cabal of racists do so to scare non-white people?

What connects them both is the total absence of evidence.

[the other bob wilson]

I don't have a 'lot' Bob. There's no need to be binary and party political.

We all know that if you go to an event like that and call out then you will very likely be removed. People who do it know so too, and they heckle in the knowledge that they will be removed. Like I said, seemed a little overzealous, but we don't know if he had been previously asked to keep quiet or not.

Fair play, that first paragraph cracked me up - I assume you weren’t being ironic?

[JamesWales]

Fair play, that first paragraph cracked me up - I assume you weren’t being ironic?

No. Where have I ever made blanket criticism of Labour party policy or Lib Dem policy or Plaid policy? When have I ever encouraged people to vote Tory?

I never have. The issue is that I will disagree with a few people on here who do make very blanket statements.

Nothing to say about Sludges conspiracy theories above then?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I live in Cardiff.

And isn't it the case that just like the Qanon crowd talk about some secret cabal of paedophiles at the heart of govt to scare parents, so too do people who talk of a secret cabal of racists do so to scare non-white people?

What connects them both is the total absence of evidence.

You are going to need to be specific than that

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I live in Cardiff.

And isn't it the case that just like the Qanon crowd talk about some secret cabal of paedophiles at the heart of govt to scare parents, so too do people who talk of a secret cabal of racists do so to scare non-white people?

What connects them both is the total absence of evidence.

So the current tory party mantra of blaming immigrants for everything especially those on the boats .....

That's designed to improve racial harmony in this country is it ?

Or stoke up the Daily Mail goose stepping gang ?

Or both ?

But the Conservative Party are NOT racist

[Rjk]

So the current tory party mantra of blaming immigrants for everything especially those on the boats .....

That's designed to improve racial harmony in this country is it ?

Or stoke up the Daily Mail goose stepping gang ?

Or both ?

But the Conservative Party are NOT racist

the Tories are desperate, they are facing down the barrel of an utter humiliation at the next election. they will pull any lever that they think will let them hang onto power between now and the election, and being "tough on immigration" is one of the only areas left that they perform better with the public than labour, so expect them to be trying to make that the main focus of the election despite their track record actually being appalling.

[JamesWales]

Immigration was highest last year than ever before. That's a strange way to demonstrate hatred towards people.

It's almost as if you are talking a monumental load of nonsense backed up with some Qanon type stuff about the party secretly using minorities as stooges without the Prime Minister or anyone else knowing.

Proper whacko stuff.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Immigration was highest last year than ever before. That's a strange way to demonstrate hatred towards people.

It's almost as if you are talking a monumental load of nonsense backed up with some Qanon type stuff about the party secretly using minorities as stooges without the Prime Minister or anyone else knowing.

Proper whacko stuff.

You are off on your look at me I am clever crusade again

It's bollocks

The immigration situation under the Tories is completely out of control

Their answer?

Blame the immigrants as the numbers they said they would deal with keep rising

And you think their complete loss of control is actually a sign that they like immigrants and is a sign they like immigrants ?

You don't believe that absolute nonsense you have typed

Although if by a small chance you do your head is in the shed and you need to go and see your doctor

[JamesWales]

You are off on your look at me I am clever crusade again

It's bollocks

The immigration situation under the Tories is completely out of control

Their answer?

Blame the immigrants as the numbers they said they would deal with keep rising

And you think their complete loss of control is actually a sign that they like immigrants and is a sign they like immigrants ?

You don't believe that absolute nonsense you have typed

Although if by a small chance you do your head is in the shed and you need to go and see your doctor

Referencing an absolute fact to debunk some weird conspiracy theory is a pretty low bar to accuse someone of 'trying to be clever'.

This is controlled immigration btw, within the govts policies. It is too high in my opinion, but it is by definition not "out of control".

[cyril evans awaydays]

Immigration was highest last year than ever before. That's a strange way to demonstrate hatred towards people.

It's almost as if you are talking a monumental load of nonsense backed up with some Qanon type stuff about the party secretly using minorities as stooges without the Prime Minister or anyone else knowing.

Proper whacko stuff.

Immigration was higher last year than 2016, when we wrested control of our borders back from the EUSSR, how did that happen?

[PontBlue]

Hang on a moment..

You do realise that Oxford Council (Labour run) did undertake this. £6.5m cost, camera recognition, fines and permits allowing you to use certain roads 100 times in a year etc

It wasn't made up.

What the latest is with it, I don't know, but the fact others aren't rushing to do it is probably down to the kind of pushback you are criticising.

I do agree that the general concept of 15 minute cities is misunderstood, but equally the principle was used by Oxford Council to implement some pretty draconian policies.

I'm happy to criticise any Council or Political Party if I don't agree with what they are doing.

I don't agree with Oxford Council's road restrictions but they aren't alone in restricting access to roads. All Council are at it to some degree or other.

The aim of 15 minute Cities is admirable and should be championed. I'd like to have all the services I need within a 15 minute walk from my home. That carrot would be incentive enough for lots to ditch their cars for short trips.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Referencing an absolute fact to debunk some weird conspiracy theory is a pretty low bar to accuse someone of 'trying to be clever'.

This is controlled immigration btw, within the govts policies. It is too high in my opinion, but it is by definition not "out of control".

Controlled immigration my arse

It's completely falling apart

You denying that for the sake of your own ego is absolutely laughable

[the other bob wilson]

No. Where have I ever made blanket criticism of Labour party policy or Lib Dem policy or Plaid policy? When have I ever encouraged people to vote Tory?

I never have. The issue is that I will disagree with a few people on here who do make very blanket statements.

Nothing to say about Sludges conspiracy theories above then?

I haven't read what he said, but I can guess. Sludge and I are very anti Tory, but beyond that, there's a fair bit I disagree with him on.

I'm more interested in how you, as mentioned earlier in the thread, just keep on saying the same things over and over in a discussion as if the person on the other side of the argument will eventually be won around to your way of thinking.

This is a classic case in point - you maintain that this is heckling,



but to use your methods, I'll repeat that, as someone old enough to remember a time when politicians were judged positively because of the ability to handle hecklers well, it wasn't - Braveman ignored him and I don't blame her for that because he would have been barely audible to her, if she were being properly heckled, she would have known all about it.

You seriously don't have a problem with a Conservative party member being treated like this

https://news.sky.com/video/tory-conf...peech-12975962

for daring to disagree with the Home Secretary?

[JamesWales]

I haven't read what he said, but I can guess. Sludge and I are very anti Tory, but beyond that, there's a fair bit I disagree with him on.

I'm more interested in how you, as mentioned earlier in the thread, just keep on saying the same things over and over in a discussion as if the person on the other side of the argument will eventually be won around to your way of thinking.

This is a classic case in point - you maintain that this is heckling,



but to use your methods, I'll repeat that, as someone old enough to remember a time when politicians were judged positively because of the ability to handle hecklers well, it wasn't - Braveman ignored him and I don't blame her for that because he would have been barely audible to her, if she were being properly heckled, she would have known all about it.

You seriously don't have a problem with a Conservative party member being treated like this

https://news.sky.com/video/tory-conf...peech-12975962

for daring to disagree with the Home Secretary?

I mean the very video you cite literally calls him a heckler in the headline, so yeah I do think it's heckling and I think we all know - and he knows - that you can be expected to leave in such a scenario. It's not really news, and the topic she is talking about is of bigger free speech importance. I have said it is perhaps a little overzealous but internet videos are notorious for not providing the full story. Either way I'm not bothered and that's the case if there are any hecklers at the Labour party conference too of course. I won't be starting any threads on messageboards about them being removed either.

I agree with you on there being political talent in dealing with hecklers and I doubt Suella Braverman would deal with them well or with much humour tbh. In this case she just ignored them and that's fair enough.

I don't "keep saying the same thing" in the hope someone will be "won over". I do that because I probably have a consistent view on it. If you keep asking me the same thing I'll probably keep having the same answer. What do you expect? I'm not just going to say what you or a few others on here want me to say if I don't believe it to be true. You seem a reasonable man and I'm sure deep down you understand and even respect that stance even if you don't always agree with it.

I think on this you are probably making a mountain of a molehill and if a concern for free speech was really you motivation (and let's be honest it probably isn't) there are far greater examples to use.

As I said. If you heckle a political speech like that, it's likely you will be asked to leave.

[the other bob wilson]

They probably called it heckling because they were told by Conservative Central Office it was, but I've heard it called mumbling by others and hecklers do not mumble. Did you watch the video? The so called heckling wasn't even enough to halt Braverman mid tirade. I agree about the lack of talent among modern day politicians in all sorts of respect, not just in dealing with hecklers - I haven't forgotten Braverman's response to the holocaust survivor who picked her up on the type of language she was using when talking about her one and only specialist subject earlier this year. Interestingly, as we've had an ongoing difference of opinion about the use of this word, I heard a former Conservative voter using the word "fascist" to describe what Braverman was saying on the James O'Brien show earlier this week, O'Brien said he was going to pick the caller up on the use of that word, but then stopped himself because, on further consideration, he thought it was appropriate for some aspects of modern day Conservative party thinking.

[JamesWales]

They probably called it heckling because they were told by Conservative Central Office it was, but I've heard it called mumbling by others and hecklers do not mumble. Did you watch the video? The so called heckling wasn't even enough to halt Braverman mid tirade. I agree about the lack of talent among modern day politicians in all sorts of respect, not just in dealing with hecklers - I haven't forgotten Braverman's response to the holocaust survivor who picked her up on the type of language she was using when talking about her one and only specialist subject earlier this year. Interestingly, as we've had an ongoing difference of opinion about the use of this word, I heard a former Conservative voter using the word "fascist" to describe what Braverman was saying on the James O'Brien show earlier this week, O'Brien said he was going to pick the caller up on the use of that word, but then stopped himself because, on further consideration, he thought it was appropriate for some aspects of modern day Conservative party thinking.

I did watch the video yeah.

I didn't have the pleasure of listening to James O'Brien saying the same things he says every show, but I can very much picture it based on your description..!

[Dorcus]

I did watch the video yeah.

I didn't have the pleasure of listening to James O'Brien saying the same things he says every show, but I can very much picture it based on your description..!

So you mean like you saying the same things over and over again but of course in diametric opposition! Ever thought of maybe tweaking your discourse a little? You might elicit more agreement.

[JamesWales]

So you mean like you saying the same things over and over again but of course in diametric opposition! Ever thought of maybe tweaking your discourse a little? You might elicit more agreement.

Did you expect my opinion on this matter to have changed from Thursday to Friday?!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Did you expect my opinion on this matter to have changed from Thursday to Friday?!

You should just type

Tory boy agrees with the conservatives

Every time you post

It would save you a lot of energy on the internet and us a lot of time having to read your insipid creepy nonsense

[JamesWales]

You should just type

Tory boy agrees with the conservatives

Every time you post

It would save you a lot of energy on the internet and us a lot of time having to read your insipid creepy nonsense

I've disagreed with their policy on HS2 for the last few years you absolute weapon.

Now go and have your sausage and mash, stop being so bloody tiresome, enjoy your weekend and I hope those shape shifting lizard Tories you endlessly fret about don't find you 👍🙏

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I've disagreed with their policy on HS2 for the last few years you absolute weapon.

Now go and have your sausage and mash, stop being so bloody tiresome, enjoy your weekend and I hope those shape shifting lizard Tories you endlessly fret about don't find you 👍🙏

Up yours you clart

Enjoy your weekend

[JamesWales]

Up yours you clart

Enjoy your weekend

And you knobstain 😘