Reply With Quotei know, very odd but if you don't love Palestine you are ostracisedOriginally Posted by goats
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Wtf?
i know, very odd but if you don't love Palestine you are ostracised
There are some people on the fringe of left wing politics who wave Palestinian flags from time to time
It's daft in my opinion really but there you go
Those on the right of British politics sometimes wave star of David Israel 🇮🇱 flags to wind up lefties
All very silly
Israel today saying this is their 9/11.
Absolutely spot on. There's been some weird comments from some in this thread.
The slaughter and kidnap of innocent citizens is always beyond the pale and is always absolutely wrong. Whatever the political divide one should always deplore violence against the innocent and vulnerable.
Well said 👍.
Correct. As someone said on the radio this morning, sometimes the most intelligent thing to do is to say less and listen more.
Probably a fair comparison both in scale and unexpectedness and I suppose also in terms of how the two sides will frame this.
Watching the news last night someone painted a scenario - Imagine if Corbyn had won the election, what would he and the Labour party do in this situation.
Inject a lot of sense into this madness.
Think you are trying too hard for attention/bites* (delete as appropriate).
As others have said there have been some unnecessary rubbish in this thread and this is the latest example.
Richard Hecht is the colonel and spokesman of the Israeli Army
He's originally from Glasgow and like a lot of the settlers in Israel is so clearly entrenched in his view that he and his side are right and the Palestinians are wrong
He was on the news talking about defeating the enemy what an absolute delusion
The young man from London who has died fighting for the Israeli army is entitled to do what he wants with his life which sadly has now ended but instead of living as a young man with friends from all backgrounds his faith or religion or whatever it is has propelled him over to a land to fight people he has learned to hate .....his family said he was a good boy but he's taken free will at the age of 20 to fight for a land and its people based upon what he's learned about at Jewish school
And there are obviously young Palestinians who will be on the opposite side and involved in acts of violence despite being in reality just kids
There are huge communities of secular Jews and Arabs living together in Israel , Tel Aviv was until recently a fairly chilled out place , given its history but when in countries faraway from Israel and Palestine young people are being fed and educated by people on both sides who hate and live in the past then it's the viscous circle of tit for tat
There's absolutely no chance of this conflict ever being resolved I am afraid
No chance
"Think you are trying too hard for attention/bites* (delete as appropriate).
As others have said there have been some unnecessary rubbish in this thread and this is the latest example."
Coming from you Evans - that is staggering. Dorcus seems to think Corbyn would inject a lot of sense into the situation - do you agree ?
No. But I also think trying to drag Corbyn back into a discussion after you tried and failed to troll about Labour earlier in the thread was infantile and puerile. But plus ca change. Multis have to mult I guess!
I'm sure this will be controversial for many and whilst I wouldn't presume to speak for Sludge I think a suggestion on the conflict might tie in to his general thoughts on the issue.
There's no doubt this conflict knows no bounds and will run and run and run. How long in time and how many innocents will be killed and maimed before a political settlement will be achieved to end the cycle of suffering? Many people cannot see that horizon because it's much too far away.
Although an eye for an eye is rooted in the psyche of nearly all humans as a rational reaction to attack I wonder if in this instance Israel would be better advised to spare any more human suffering and resist retaliation?
I think if they followed this course of non retaliatory violence Israel would likely gain kudos and probably gain much more support for their cause than hitherto.
What exactly will exacting violent punishment achieve? It certainly won't act as a deterrent because it will inevitably lead to more conflict and, incidentally probably increase support for the Palestinian people.
This may be an opportunity for Israel to lay the foundations for a peaceful settlement by gaining the moral high ground and resisting the shrill calls to exact revenge.
Pulling back from a mass ground attack would be the most appropriate and sensible move
But there are too many fanatics in the government that will make it happen and of course the general Israeli population who in so many cases will understandly want action ......even if the world knows that will make things far worse
It would be a step forward if Israel stepped back but the chances of that happening are zero I would imagine
I would say the chance of no retaliation is about zero. And I cant think of any situation where that has happened. There is certainly a bigger picture esp re Saudi Arabia. Not sure why Hamas would think doing this would lead to more peace, unless they obviously want to start a new war in the region.
If neither side will ever accept the other, or accept a situation that allows peace - then they will always fight. The non rational argument is - let them get on with - whoever wins - 'wins' - but in reality that would start ww3.
What happens next ? - more death and violence seems inevitable.
Looking at some of the footage - Hamas terrorists - are they all Palestinian ? or do they recruit from Africa?
You are right of course, and that goes for any conflict really, but we all know it won't happen unfortunately.
The best hope is for no wild escalation
I think the subject of the thread is far more important that the usual descent of Punch and Judy left v right spats between the usual parties on here.
I don't know why you always come out with this 'there is no hope and no solution' view Sludge. You do it all the time and with all sorts of issues - from anti-Tory electoral pacts to climate change to global conflicts. I don't understand why you are so pessimistic and defeatist. There is always hope.
Israel/Palestine is certainly one of the biggest and most difficult conflicts - over 75 years old and now more entrenched than ever - but the same things were said about South Africa and Ireland.
There is a will for peace amongst many Israeli Jews, Israeli Arabs and Palestinians from the occupied territories. As you said in your post there are brave, committed and non-sectarian people across the divide. That is positive. There also has to be leadership within the Israeli state and from the Palestinian side - not an endless cycle of oppression, rage, provocation and reaction. There is little sign of that at the moment - but even a corrupt thug like Netanyahu could be drawn into a new peace process if he thought it was inevitable or in his own best interests (not so many of his far right, racist, government partners) as happened with South Africa, and even vilified and isolated Hamas has leading members who have made back channel contacts with the Israelis to begin a new peace process as recently as 2018.
I have no idea where a new process will begin - beyond Egypt and Qatar trying to create a short-term truce. Most of the world (including the UN, EU and other regional organisations) claim to support a two state solution, whilst standing by while that option has been dismantled by creeping annexation over the past 20 odd years. Israel gets a diplomatic, economic and military free pass whatever it does in defiance of international law and conventions. Hamas, a product of the occupation, poses as the defender of Palestinians when no one else gives a toss - but ends up using civilians as pawns in a desperate high-stakes game. Yet there is opposition to the current Israeli government in Israel and there is a new generation of Palestinian activists who reject both Hamas (violent Islamists) and the Palestinian Authority (who make big statements but act like the puny agents of the Israeli state on the West Bank - like a Vichy regime).
It won't be easy and it won't be quick but I believe there are enough elements of a solution out there for a settlement to emerge. Not a biblical Jewish supremacist apartheid state that has annexed the West Bank and Gaza and expelled the remaining indigenous people. Not the obliteration of an Israeli state that has existed and created its own roots and history over 75 years. But a compromise that most can live with. Ideally it would be a single democratic state with equal rights for all citizens - but more likely a new partition (creating a viable Palestinian state) where there would be another round of losers (land and citizenship) but a long term internationally guaranteed deal that can be established and protected over the next three generations - with some joint institutions (as in Ireland) and a reconciliation process once the time is right (as in South Africa).
If I was Israel I'd just go for it big time . Innocent folk should give Hamas up , they know who they are disgusting bunch of Iranian back terrorists.
They don't want peace they'd miss the funding.
Sludge I'd right it will never end as they all want Israel pushed into the sea ( Iranian quote ).
Where is Jezzer?
Israel's Defence Minister orders "complete siege" of Gaza Strip: "No electricity, no food, no fuel"
Two million people live in Gaza, half are children. What an awful, awful situation.
And here we have the root of the problem. With people like this around look forward to endless carnage on both sides.
This brutal attack on Palestinians on 6th April 2023 https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-relea...al-aqsa-mosque
Both sides are culpable.
And people like LOM cheer it on and has the audacity to criticise Corbyn. There will never be peace and innocent civilians will continue to die and suffer.
Exactly, it's never those high up in the echelon who lose their lives; the perpetrators of the mayhem get away scott free on both sides. The people who will continue to suffer are just innocent pawns in the conflict. By the way, which conflict has ever been any different?
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