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Thread: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

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  1. #1
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Back to the topic of the thread for a moment

    I see on Al Jazeera news that the Egyptians appear to be building a guarded security enclosure on their side of the wall with Rafah to create a safe space for Palestinian refugees. At last an answer to the question I have been asking for a while - what would Egypt do if there was a sudden mass stampede of refugees when the IDF start their ground invasion of Rafah. They have obviously woken up to the fact that this is a likely scenario. It is good to see fellow Arabs doing something positive. I don't know if they will be able to cope with the likely numbers though but at least this way humanitarian aid can be provided directly to these poor people in a safe environment with less chance of Hamas getting their hands on it.
    If the Palestinian population of Gaza is forced into the Sinai it will be a victory for ethnic cleansing and genocide.

    If that happens everything possible should be done to provide food, medicines and shelter - but it must be a temporary situation.

    I'm sure Hamas have had their share of the pitiful trickle of aid that has got in to Gaza but that is a footnote to the big picture. The Israeli government has blocked and restricted aid since October, and has colluded with the Israeli settlers and other far right protestors who object to Palestinians eating or drinking clean water and have put up barriers at all the Israeli crossings.

    They all want the Gazans in Egyptian territory too - another shameful wave of refugees for the world to ignore.

  2. #2

    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    If the Palestinian population of Gaza is forced into the Sinai it will be a victory for ethnic cleansing and genocide.

    If that happens everything possible should be done to provide food, medicines and shelter - but it must be a temporary situation.

    I'm sure Hamas have had their share of the pitiful trickle of aid that has got in to Gaza but that is a footnote to the big picture. The Israeli government has blocked and restricted aid since October, and has colluded with the Israeli settlers and other far right protestors who object to Palestinians eating or drinking clean water and have put up barriers at all the Israeli crossings.

    They all want the Gazans in Egyptian territory too - another shameful wave of refugees for the world to ignore.
    100% agree with that. For a while I've been thinking that the very stance that the Egyptians are now taking might be exactly what Israel wants, so they can claim the entire Gaza strip and not let the Palestinians back in. What will be left of Rafah after the final battle between Hamas and IDF - not a lot I suspect, judging by the amount of destruction elsewhere.

  3. #3

    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Back to the topic of the thread for a moment

    I see on Al Jazeera news that the Egyptians appear to be building a guarded security enclosure on their side of the wall with Rafah to create a safe space for Palestinian refugees. At last an answer to the question I have been asking for a while - what would Egypt do if there was a sudden mass stampede of refugees when the IDF start their ground invasion of Rafah. They have obviously woken up to the fact that this is a likely scenario. It is good to see fellow Arabs doing something positive. I don't know if they will be able to cope with the likely numbers though but at least this way humanitarian aid can be provided directly to these poor people in a safe environment with less chance of Hamas getting their hands on it.
    Hope this happens for those poor people.

  4. #4

    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    1. I've never presented RELIGION as an answer for anything.

    2. Your last comment makes no sense, because speaking to friends, family or others (like those here) who have yet to trust in Christ I only discuss verified facts when it comes to a world view. So for you to say my faith is a barrier is invalid.
    If you ARE able to support your world view (the origin of life, the reason for life and anything beyond this life) apart from the Bible via verified evidence then fire away.

    If you cannot then you have no reasonable grounds to criticise any other viewpoint.

  5. #5

    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    They are verified on a regular basis in many areas of science and history.
    NB: For example, archeologists have actually used the Gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts to assist them in locating many things and they give credit to the meticulous writing of Luke which was the key to them finding many of those historical artifacts.

    If you move away from the skeptics (who love to make sweeping assumptions) for a moment and do your own research you will see it very differently. Many former skeptics have published their findings and all of them realise they were completely wrong in their original assumptions.

    Here is one article which you will find to be genuine:-

    Josh McDowell lists evidences for Luke’s accuracy compiled by Roman historian Colin Hemer, a noted Roman historian: “Specialized details, which would not be known except to a contemporary researcher. . .details include exact titles of officials, identification of army units. . .correlation of dates of known kings and governors within the chronology of the narrative. . .‘undesigned coincidences’ between Acts and the Pauline Epistles. . .off-hand geographical references that bespeak familiarity with common knowledge.”

    McDowell notes that many times historians thought Luke was in error on some points, only to be proven wrong by an archaeological discovery. For example:

    Luke spoke of Philippi as a “part” or “district” of Macedonia. It was believed he erred because the Greek word meris did not mean “district.” Archaeological evidence unearthed showed, however, that “district” was the exact meaning of the Greek word meris that Luke had used.
    Luke referred to Lysanias the Tetrarch of Abilene in his Gospel. Because the only known Lysanias to historians was killed in 36 B.C., Luke was thought to be in error. Then an inscription was found bearing the name of Lysanias the Tetrarch and dated between 14 and 29 A.D., just at the right time period.
    Luke was thought to be wrong about the census taken at the time of Christ, because critics said there was no evidence of a census and that the governor called Quirinius was in power too late, 6 A.D., to be in his position at the time of Christ. They also stated that it was not required for the people to return to their birth homes. But archaeology showed that in fact these censuses were done regularly and that one was indeed taken at the time of Christ and, furthermore, that Quirinius was governor (or at least an administrator of some type, see footnote #5 below) a second time, in 7 B.C. They also found evidence on a papyrus document showing that during the censuses people were required to return to their own homes and countries.[4][5]
    Luke referred to the Philippian officials as praetors, when some scholars thought the titles should be duumvirs, but archaeological finds showed that in fact praetors was the right title for the Roman magistrates of the colony.
    Luke used the title politarchs for the Thessalonian officials, but since this title was not found in the classical literature Luke was again assumed to be wrong. Then several inscriptions were found that used the title politarchs, and five of them referred to Thessalonica.[6]


    There are many more examples of these findings, where Luke was right and the critics were wrong. Everywhere we can check the Bible’s history, it proves reliable. The above excerpt was taken from The Bible Can Be Proven, Chapter 6 entitled “The Shovel doesn’t Lie.”
    But none of that proves that God exists though does it?

    I don’t think anyone denies that the Bible acts as a historical reference though. It was written in historical times.

  6. #6

    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by stevo View Post
    But none of that proves that God exists though does it?

    I don’t think anyone denies that the Bible acts as a historical reference though. It was written in historical times.
    Jeepster did when he said - "How on earth is anything from the bible verified.?"

    When you look further, then you realise that the human authors could NOT have written all they did alone, they must have had help from a being outside our dimension of time.

  7. #7

    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    Jeepster did when he said - "How on earth is anything from the bible verified.?"

    When you look further, then you realise that the human authors could NOT have written all they did alone, they must have had help from a being outside our dimension of time.
    What an alien?

  8. #8

    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by jeepster View Post
    What an alien?
    Not being human by nature, so technically 'alien' to us.
    He did become human however, for many reasons but primarily to die at Calvary for creatures who generally have little time for Him.

  9. #9

    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    Not being human by nature, so technically 'alien' to us.
    He did become human however, for many reasons but primarily to die at Calvary for creatures who generally have little time for Him.
    Wow,just lord of the rings kind of thing.

  10. #10

    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordi Culé View Post

    Regarding Hamas I think they're massive cuunts, I've said so previously. I also think the current Israeli coalition government are too.
    Yep, and you’d expect any decent person with morals including Christians to see it like this also, maybe without the language you used but you’d think they’d share the same sentiment.

  11. #11

    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    The resurrection is the foundation on which Christianity stands. If anyone can prove that it never happened I will happily renounce my faith!

  12. #12

    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    No mention on BBC news regarding possible refugee camp being prepared in Egypt.

  13. #13

  14. #14

    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    Opps showing a truthful item,you will rot in hell now.

  15. #15

    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by jeepster View Post
    Opps showing a truthful item,you will rot in hell now.
    If that's aimed at me, oh, heck

  16. #16

    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    If that's aimed at me, oh, heck
    No at Stevo

  17. #17

    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    I meant BBC TV news actually. Would reach a much wider audience. I saw it first on Al Jazeera a few days ago - definitely the best channel for news on Gaza. Clearly heavily biased rhetoric towards Palestinian side of course but they do have reporters on the ground in Gaza so I tend to trust the pictures they show.

  18. #18
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    I see Wes Streeting has decided 35,000 + dead at the hands of the Israeli Occupation Forces is enough (if you count the thousands of children and their families buried under the rubble and not yet in the 'dead' column).

    He was OK with 25,000. But now Israel has gone too far! Starmer agrees with him (sort of).

    Fantastic to have such principled people leading the main political opposition.

  19. #19

    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    I see Wes Streeting has decided 35,000 + dead at the hands of the Israeli Occupation Forces is enough (if you count the thousands of children and their families buried under the rubble and not yet in the 'dead' column).

    He was OK with 25,000. But now Israel has gone too far! Starmer agrees with him (sort of).

    Fantastic to have such principled people leading the main political opposition.
    Who chose where the battle would take place?

  20. #20
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    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    Who chose where the battle would take place?
    Well it wasn't your dyslexic dog, so the only possible answer is Israel - the state that has occupied most Palestinian land since 1967 (if not 1948) and (with a little help from Egypt) turned Gaza into an open air prison for 2.3m people. The location, scale, and deliberately indiscriminate nature of the genocidal revenge attack since 7 October is all Israel.

    No excuses for any of the atrocities carried out by Hamas or others who crossed the fence on 7 October - but the last four and a half months of mass murder and ethnic cleansing were not carried out by Hamas.

    It wasn't so long ago that you were very loud and proud of Israel's drive to pen, humiliate, dispossess, imprison without trial and kill any Palestinians who remained on the land wanted for Greater Israel. You kept talking about a real estate deal between a supernatural being and his 'chosen people' as described in the Old Testament - a book you seem to treat as 100% literally true. Your main comment on the recent history of ethnic cleansing and apartheid was that Israel was showing 'restraint' (your word if I remember correctly).

    They are not showing restraint now (they never were) but are still intent on blaming someone else for their crimes. As are you.

  21. #21

    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Well it wasn't your dyslexic dog, so the only possible answer is Israel - the state that has occupied most Palestinian land since 1967 (if not 1948) and (with a little help from Egypt) turned Gaza into an open air prison for 2.3m people. The location, scale, and deliberately indiscriminate nature of the genocidal revenge attack since 7 October is all Israel.

    No excuses for any of the atrocities carried out by Hamas or others who crossed the fence on 7 October - but the last four and a half months of mass murder and ethnic cleansing were not carried out by Hamas.

    It wasn't so long ago that you were very loud and proud of Israel's drive to pen, humiliate, dispossess, imprison without trial and kill any Palestinians who remained on the land wanted for Greater Israel. You kept talking about a real estate deal between a supernatural being and his 'chosen people' as described in the Old Testament - a book you seem to treat as 100% literally true. Your main comment on the recent history of ethnic cleansing and apartheid was that Israel was showing 'restraint' (your word if I remember correctly).

    They are not showing restraint now (they never were) but are still intent on blaming someone else for their crimes. As are you.
    No excuses for any of the atrocities carried out by Hamas or others who crossed the fence on 7 October - but the last four and a half months of mass murder and ethnic cleansing were not carried out by Hamas.

    Well thanks for acknowledging the hideous spark to this conflict. While Hamas hasn't physically caused most of the deaths of the citizens who voted them into power, they DID decide that the hospitals and tunnels (paid for by their citizens and other less peaceable muslims across the middle east) would be the key areas of conflict.
    You know very well that if the civilians were living away from the military bases etc and the hostages were away from them too, then the only casualities would be hamas themselves. But just like Saddam, they are to be used to create the sort of reaction that you and so many others have predictably provided.

    ....the Old Testament - a book you seem to treat as 100% literally true.


    Wrong again, I read the Bible like any other book in it's given context. Some parts are actual history, other parts are poetry and illustrative. The context is always clearly defined, and only people who dive into and out of a statement in isolation will get confused.

  22. #22
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    [COLOR="#B22222"]

    Well thanks for acknowledging the hideous spark to this conflict. While Hamas hasn't physically caused most of the deaths of the citizens who voted them into power, they DID decide that the hospitals and tunnels (paid for by their citizens and other less peaceable muslims across the middle east) would be the key areas of conflict.

    You know very well that if the civilians were living away from the military bases etc and the hostages were away from them too, then the only casualities would be hamas themselves. But just like Saddam, they are to be used to create the sort of reaction that you and so many others have predictably provided.
    I don't agree that 7 October was the spark to this conflict at all. It was a major escalation (or reaction) to a decades long series of sparks (or conflagrations), most of them started by Israel as part of its ideological drive for a Greater Israel.

    Most of the citizens killed by Israel since 7 October did not elect Hamas into power in 2006-7. They were children or not born then. A third of the victims of Israeli genocidal attacks in Gaza were children at the time they were crushed, dismembered or burned to death under their bombs, shells and rockets.

    Yes Hamas built a lot of tunnels (although some like under the Gaza City hospital were Israeli built 20 years ago) and yes they have their fighters in areas where there are a lot of civilians. That is inevitable in one of the most congested places on earth where Israel (with Egyptian help in the south) has blockaded the population for over 17 years. This is not a symmetrical conflict. Hamas' military wing is an underground militia with significant small arms from Qatar and Iran, but it faces one of the largest and best equipped (nuclear) armies in the world - one that is being re-armed every month by the USA on a massive scale. In October Hamas had about 30,000 fighters and Israel had 170,000 troops backed by another 465,000 reservists.

    I do not agree that in an imagined world where Hamas fighters could separate themselves from civilians there would have been no civilian deaths from the IDF/IOF. I posted the article below at the start of January, where Paul Rodgers explains the evolution of Israeli military thinking from the pogroms and ethnic cleansing of 1948 through to the current Dahiya doctrine, used in the 2006 Lebanon war.

    Destruction of homes and infrastructure for power and clean water (along with hospitals, mosques, churches, UN refuges etc) and civilian deaths to (demoralise the enemy fighters) is intentional. Not some kind of regrettable 'collateral damage'.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ian-casualties

    Hamas is a deeply conservative, authoritarian organisation and has used internal violence as well as military violence against Israeli targets that spilled over into atrocities on the day of the attack. I also agree with your claim that the Hamas leadership (in Gaza and those in relative safely elsewhere) were prepared to see Israel impose collective punishment on the innocent civilians of Gaza in reprisals in the hope that would refocus the attention of the world on Palestinians' plight. Israel has always done that. I suspect they were surprised by the damage they were able to do on 7 October, but I also doubt they planned to unleash an Israeli genocide on the population of Gaza. I think both parties miscalculated at the start of this chapter of violence.

    However only one side is driving the mass murder, expulsions, starvation, disease and injuries now. They continue to point the finger everywhere else (including at the UN and most of the rest of the world who don't swallow their propaganda).

    But the constant repetition of lies and deflection does, to use your words, 'create the sort of reaction that you and so many others have predictably provided'.

  23. #23

    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    Hear hear!

    Streeting is repugnant. He's an embarrassment.

  24. #24
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    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68318856

    In 2019, Mr Netanyahu told colleagues in his ruling Likud party: "Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas… This is part of our strategy - to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank."

    Keeping Hamas strong enough to be an effective rival to Fatah - its West Bank rival - would prevent the possibility of a "unified Palestinian leadership with whom you would have to negotiate some kind of final settlement", says Khaled Elgindy, senior fellow on Palestine and Palestinian-Israeli Affairs at the Middle East Institute think tank in Washington D
    C.

  25. #25

    Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

    Good programme on Hamas on BBC1 Panorama now. Finances, atrocities etc

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