40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

[jon1959]

Good programme on Hamas on BBC1 Panorama now. Finances, atrocities etc

Not watched it yet (on iPlayer?).

But see it is made by John Ware - so I expect to see his usual inate hostility to the Palestinians and their supporters, and his usual whitewash of Israel and their supporters.

He is a serious and experienced journalist but over time has built up so much baggage - and for many is still associated with his recent Panorama hatchet job on Labour under Corbyn. I know you won't agree with me on that, but I think he has already had too much of a licence-fee funded platform to push his warped agenda.

[stevo]

A ‘good’ programme on the lefty BBC? Whatever next!

[jon1959]

Tomorrow's parliamentary debate on Gaza where Starmer is sweating over an even bigger revolt from his MPs than last time.

The solution:

Labour calling for 'immediate humanitarian ceasefire' in Gaza as alternative to SNP's call for 'immediate ceasefire'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-politics-live

Absolutely pathetic!

[jon1959]

https://www.bloomsbury.org.uk/christ...igil-for-gaza/

[stevo]

It would be the Christian thing to do.

[stevo]

Just looking at today's front pages. Why are the right-wing papers describing the Big Ben protest as antisemitic? Genuine question.

[truthpaste]

Just looking at today's front pages. Why are the right-wing papers describing the Big Ben protest as antisemitic? Genuine question.

Do you understand what the call 'from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free' actually means?

This message was projected onto the building.

[jon1959]

Do you understand what the call 'from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free' actually means?

This message was projected onto the building.

It means from the River Jordan to the sea, the people of Palestine will be free of occupation, apartheid and ethnic cleansing.

When Netanyahu and Likud (in their founding charter and ever since) use the phrase - to no objections from those who scream about Palestinian usage - they mean from the River Jordan to the sea there will be Israeli sovereignty, a Jewish supremacist state, a programme of ethnic cleansing of Arab Palestinians, and their replacement with new, illegal, Jewish settlements.

https://www.thenation.com/article/wo...er-to-the-sea/

https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2...e-israel-hamas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_t...nachem%20Begin.

[stevo]

No, I don't sorry. Well, I kind of do. But is it any different to what Israel are doing to Palestine? So, I'll rephrase my question - what's the difference?

[truthpaste]

No, I don't sorry. Well, I kind of do. But is it any different to what Israel are doing to Palestine? So, I'll rephrase my question - what's the difference?

You "kind of do" - How coy!

The answer to this is both historical in the lessor part, but the greater part is current.
So for the sake of the extensive historical debate, which would be a thread in itself, the current (the last 4 months) situation is the key answer to your question.
Israel had no interest in anything but defending their citizens prior to last October. When that security was severely destroyed they not only needed to do what we did in WW2 in the essential elimination of the Nazis, they also needed to bring their citizens home.
As previously mentioned, the battleground specifically selected by Hamas was always going to produce these casualities, and in turn the growing hostile attitude towards Israel that Hamas (and many other Islamic nations) desired.
It's a shame for them that they have no idea what the end-game will be.

[Gofer Blue]

I am a regular watcher of Al Jazeera TV. They have reporters actually on the ground in Gaza, not safely tucked away in Jerusalem somewhere, hence I believe we get a good picture of what's actually going on. Obviously they, and the experts who join in on the various discussion sessions, are completely pro-Palestinian and seem to be in denial that Hamas fighters are embedded within the population, hiding in tunnels etc. I have yet to see anyone who puts forward the Israeli viewpoint on there!

Leaving that aside, this morning we were shown scenes of the aftermath of the Israeli bombardment of the camp in Rafah last night. The scenes are normally very harrowing so there is very rarely any warning about upsetting content but such a warning was issued this morning. We witnessed tiny tots who were completely traumatised, some with fixed stares and others screaming hysterically. It was reported that one little one had said he would rather be dead than to go on living. I just could not watch for more than a few minutes, it broke my heart and I couldn't see through the tears anyway.

It left me so angry but completely impotent about the situation other than to pray for a cessation of this insanity. There is the innocent blood of children on the hands of both sides in this conflict. I still pray that our government may yet seriously consider the idea of finding foster carers for orphaned Palestinian children along the lines of the Kindertransport scheme in WW2, as, whatever the end game is, there are going to be thousands of traumatised orphans. There must surely be lots of Arabic speaking families, not just in the UK but all over Europe.

[jeepster]

I am a regular watcher of Al Jazeera TV. They have reporters actually on the ground in Gaza, not safely tucked away in Jerusalem somewhere, hence I believe we get a good picture of what's actually going on. Obviously they, and the experts who join in on the various discussion sessions, are completely pro-Palestinian and seem to be in denial that Hamas fighters are embedded within the population, hiding in tunnels etc. I have yet to see anyone who puts forward the Israeli viewpoint on there!

Leaving that aside, this morning we were shown scenes of the aftermath of the Israeli bombardment of the camp in Rafah last night. The scenes are normally very harrowing so there is very rarely any warning about upsetting content but such a warning was issued this morning. We witnessed tiny tots who were completely traumatised, some with fixed stares and others screaming hysterically. It was reported that one little one had said he would rather be dead than to go on living. I just could not watch for more than a few minutes, it broke my heart and I couldn't see through the tears anyway.

It left me so angry but completely impotent about the situation other than to pray for a cessation of this insanity. There is the innocent blood of children on the hands of both sides in this conflict. I still pray that our government may yet seriously consider the idea of finding foster carers for orphaned Palestinian children along the lines of the Kindertransport scheme in WW2, as, whatever the end game is, there are going to be thousands of traumatised orphans. There must surely be lots of Arabic speaking families, not just in the UK but all over Europe.

Fantastic post.The way to end this is to give the Palestinians a separate land.
Hopefully then sit down and talk. I know it will never happen,but Northern Ireland was just a dream look what happened.

[truthpaste]

Fantastic post.The way to end this is to give the Palestinians a separate land.
Hopefully then sit down and talk. I know it will never happen,but Northern Ireland was just a dream look what happened.

Arab_Israel2.jpg

I agree that a solution must be found, and soon, however the "Blues" are hardly a major player when it comes to land, even Wales is slightly bigger, yet Israel has a population more than double the size of Wales.

[stevo]

You "kind of do" - How coy!

The answer to this is both historical in the lessor part, but the greater part is current.
So for the sake of the extensive historical debate, which would be a thread in itself, the current (the last 4 months) situation is the key answer to your question.
Israel had no interest in anything but defending their citizens prior to last October. When that security was severely destroyed they not only needed to do what we did in WW2 in the essential elimination of the Nazis, they also needed to bring their citizens home.
As previously mentioned, the battleground specifically selected by Hamas was always going to produce these casualities, and in turn the growing hostile attitude towards Israel that Hamas (and many other Islamic nations) desired.
It's a shame for them that they have no idea what the end-game will be.

Sorry Truthpaste, but Jon1959 yet again answers the question a lot more comprehensively than you do. Have you followed the links he provided in that reply? Interested to hear your thoughts on it.

[jon1959]

Five-month-old twins who were conceived after three rounds of IVF have been killed in an Israeli airstrike on their family home in Rafah, southern Gaza.

Naeim and Wissam Abu Anza were among 14 Palestinians – including six children – killed in the strike at the weekend, according to survivors and health officials. The babies’ father was among the dead. Another nine people are still missing under the rubble.

The twins, a boy and a girl, were born less than a week after the start of the Israel-Gaza war. Their parents had spent 10 years trying to conceive.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ke-house-rafah

But remember - it is the people marching to stop this who are the extremists!


Gaza demo 9 March.jpeg

[Dorcus]

Anyone who thinks this all started 5 months ago is either ignorant, disingenuous or fanatically partisan.

The occupation of the Palestine people was always likely to produce horrendous retribution even though it is abominable in itself.

This is a sore that cannot be healed. The most infamous culprits in this murky story are the British and their cynical and irresponsible machinations for their own territorial and hegemonic goals.

[jon1959]

This thread has gone very quiet as the daily toll of death, mutilation and starvation rolls across Gaza.

Maybe nothing much more to say?

Failed ceasefire talks? The ICJ ignored?

Pitifully small numbers of aid trucks backed by even more pitiful airdrops and aid ships (big on headlines, small on food supplies)?

Israel going ahead with plans for the Rafah ground attack?

The Oscar acceptance speech by British Director Jonathan Glazer for The Zone Of Interest has opened another window on the events in Israel/Palestine - and generated a wave of abuse and hate from the usual suspects. Naomi Klein's piece on it is well worth a read:


https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-gaza-genocide

[stevo]

This thread has gone very quiet as the daily toll of death, mutilation and starvation rolls across Gaza.

Maybe nothing much more to say?

I focussed my efforts on writing to my MP instead, calling for an immediate and permanent ceasefire and to stop supplying Israel with weapons in an effort to stop the genocide.

[jon1959]

I focussed my efforts on writing to my MP instead, calling for an immediate and permanent ceasefire and to stop supplying Israel with weapons in an effort to stop the genocide.

[truthpaste]

This thread has gone very quiet as the daily toll of death, mutilation and starvation rolls across Gaza.

Maybe nothing much more to say?

Failed ceasefire talks? The ICJ ignored?

Pitifully small numbers of aid trucks backed by even more pitiful airdrops and aid ships (big on headlines, small on food supplies)?

Israel going ahead with plans for the Rafah ground attack?

The Oscar acceptance speech by British Director Jonathan Glazer for The Zone Of Interest has opened another window on the events in Israel/Palestine - and generated a wave of abuse and hate from the usual suspects. Naomi Klein's piece on it is well worth a read:


https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-gaza-genocide

This situation is still only seeing the opening moves, much as we would all like it to end, for numerous reasons including those well away from Gaza itself, there is still much to play out.

[jon1959]

Someone else fond of quoting from the Old Testament:

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20...cid=d28a8bae61

[Citizen's Nephew]

Someone else fond of quoting from the Old Testament:

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20...cid=d28a8bae61

F*ck me Jon that's a hard read. The BTL comments are shocking too. One example: 'What a nonsensical interpretation. You have an obligation to kill before someone comes to kill you, The obligation to turn the other cheek is Christian and contrary to Jewish teachings or even the teaching of JC'.

[truthpaste]

F*ck me Jon that's a hard read. The BTL comments are shocking too. One example: 'What a nonsensical interpretation. You have an obligation to kill before someone comes to kill you, The obligation to turn the other cheek is Christian and contrary to Jewish teachings or even the teaching of JC'.

Certainly shocking I agree, as are many things outside our own culture and current values.
We are all conditioned to think and act as though our own cultures are THE 'compass' for all human behaviour. Yet even what we did as a culture within recent generations would be unthinkable now. A radio five-live debate this morning highlighted how we view Ukraine/ Russia conflict is somewhat dependant on how far back we look at the history of both countries; and this is also true in most of the other conflicts worldwide, with Palestine being no exception.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Certainly shocking I agree.

Fixed it. That's all that was needed.

[stevo]

Fixed it. That's all that was needed.

Agreed