Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
As I said, the nature of folklore is that it builds on previous folklore (and it's no coincidence that Christian festivities adopted themes from paganism e.g. Christmas being piggy-backed onto Saturnalia and Easter being named after a pagan godess!)

The concept of human messiahs existed in Zoroastrianism and not in Abrahamism. And there are probably many, many more examples around the world than this simple soul can think of off the top of his head, no doubt!

And considering that Judaism doesn't even recognise your Messiah and that there were many others in the region to make a claim to that concept, your argument doesn't stand up.

You really seem to have no idea about the world outside your indoctrinated bubble and the global cultural context that it sits in.

By the way, do you actually believe in the talking snake, the talking donkey, the virgin birth, Jesus being the Messiah and people being turned to salt? A simple 'yes' or'no' will suffice - and if so, what evidence is there for those things? Something written in a so-called holy book is not evidence as such, by the way. Self-fulfilling prophecies in a book that refer back to a book itself and which contains nonsense, proven fiction, sheer fantasy and laughable tales (and which is wriiten largely by unknown individuals reported hearsay in an era when the vast population were illiterate and parochial) does not constitute evidence to a thinking person, regardless of whether it satisfies you personally.
Where to begin!!

Re: me being in my “indocrinated bubble” – it seems I am not alone, as there are about 2.3 billion other people (roughly 30% of the world's population) in there with me! (Data from Wikipedia). Your fabled Zoroastrian guys represent 0.03% so I suppose that must speak for itself. I wonder how many people have converted to Zoroastrianism down the centuries?

Re: my question about the Messiah – I was interested to know if the Zoroastrians had actually encountered a person amongst them who claimed to be the Messiah rather than just coming up with the concept of a Messiah.

Yes, I believe Jesus is THE Messiah. Yes, I believe in the Virgin Birth.

I know that Jews are still waiting for the Messiah. I have pinched the following quote from Wikipedia because it summarises the Jewish position more succinctly than I could!

Judaism has never accepted any of the claimed fulfilments of prophecy and holds that the coming of the Messiah will be associated with a specific series of events that have not yet occurred, including the return of Jews to their homeland and the rebuilding of the Temple, a Messianic Age of peace and understanding during which "the knowledge of God" fills the earth."And since Jews believe that none of these events occurred during the lifetime of Jesus (nor have they occurred afterwards), he is not the Messiah for them.

This sounds very much like the Second Coming to me so maybe they aren't that far off in their belief?

I have no problem with the dates for Christmas or Easter – as far as I am concerned they could be any dates, as long as there are specific days set aside for us to remember the events. I rather think the secular world would be pretty upset if these two festivals were abolished and along with them the public Christmas and Easter holidays. Alternatively I suppose Christians could be given the time off with paid leave and everyone else should go to work as normal!

Finally, regarding the talking snake and donkey, I will give you a typical politician's answer!

It seems to me there are three possible explanations:

1.The animal actually spoke.
2.The humans heard the voice of God coming from the animal.
3.The stories are complete nonsense because everyone knows animals can't speak.

I think number 3 is unlikely because I'm pretty sure the story would never have made it into the Bible – it would have been discounted as being ridiculous. That leaves me with the other two.

For number 1 I could say, well, if God is the creator of everything, then the sky's the limit as they say, and no further discussion is possible or necessary. So, yes, I could believe that. Just because it's extremely improbable, well, so is life itself!

For number 2 I could say, yes, that's possible too. I'm sure there must have been times in your life, even as an atheist, when you have had, shall we say, a “spiritual experience”. For instance standing on a mountain top and having a breath-taking moment when taking in a stunning view such as looking down into the Grand Canyon. I believe in those moments God can speak, maybe not always in audible terms but when particular thoughts suddenly come into your mind. This can also happen in stressful situations too when you are suddenly challenged and unsure what to do or say. So, yes, I could believe number 2 too.

However once again, in cracked record mode, I have to say all of the above have very little bearing on my faith in Jesus. He looks at the heart of each one of us and something tells me he is not going to reject me or anyone else who claims to be his follower because we don't understand everything that is in the Old Testament.

I know as an atheist you are interested in challenging my faith, that's fine because if you think I haven't already thought about a lot of these issues you are mistaken! Christianity is based on Jesus Christ and the New Testament recording of the events of that time. You reject these writings because they cannot be corroborated by independent sources or are simply hearsay. We must remember the time when all this took place. Yes, most people were illiterate but as a consequence of that, the oral tradition was very strong and accurate, something which is difficult for us to appreciate today in this world of instant written communication. Hence I have no problem with the work of the gospel writers or of Paul the apostle who was highly literate and could speak/write in at least three languages: Greek, Latin and Hebrew.

Finally, sorry for the delay in replying - I do have a life outside the CCMB!