What do you understand a FUNDAMENTALIST to be?

[truthpaste]

Gofer Blue recently posted:

I suppose it all depends on what you mean by a "fundamentalist". As TP has stated, Christianity is all about faith in a person not a philosophy. To me, as a Christian, faith in Jesus is fundamental so I suppose by that definition I must be a fundamentalist! Unfortunately these days the term fundamentalist has taken on a more sinister meaning - someone who is very judgemental, intolerant and in extreme cases violent to those who do not agree with them (especially in the U.S.A. it seems). These are not the attributes of a “real” Christian.

Do you see all fundamentalists to be the same?
Do you agree with Gofer Blue?
Or do you have another take?

[Jordi Culé]

Gofer Blue recently posted:

I suppose it all depends on what you mean by a "fundamentalist". As TP has stated, Christianity is all about faith in a person not a philosophy. To me, as a Christian, faith in Jesus is fundamental so I suppose by that definition I must be a fundamentalist! Unfortunately these days the term fundamentalist has taken on a more sinister meaning - someone who is very judgemental, intolerant and in extreme cases violent to those who do not agree with them (especially in the U.S.A. it seems). These are not the attributes of a “real” Christian.

Do you see all fundamentalists to be the same?
Do you agree with Gofer Blue?
Or do you have another take?

We're using different meanings, interpretation of the word 'fundamentalist'.

The context of our respective use of the word is also very different.

You know this though.

[Gofer Blue]

We're using different meanings, interpretation of the word 'fundamentalist'.

The context of our respective use of the word is also very different.

You know this though.

Do you have a definition?

[truthpaste]

We're using different meanings, interpretation of the word 'fundamentalist'.

The context of our respective use of the word is also very different.

You know this though.

That's very true. The issue is, most people throw the word at individuals assuming there is only one meaning!
Like many english words, it has at least two meanings and in this case depending on which one you mean, they fall in both the positive and negative categories.

[Tuerto]

Fund-A-Mentalist-Anyone prepared to back Trump Financially.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Religious fundamentalists are usually considered to be those who believe that stories in their religious tomes are literal and not metaphorical.

[jon1959]

Fund-A-Mentalist-Anyone prepared to back Trump Financially.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I think whilst there are variations on a theme , anyone in 2024 who goes on about what was said by so and so in the bible or Koran and believes all this God business to be true is a fundamentalist

If someone is agnostic about God but just gets on with life then that's fine

[goats]

Gofer Blue recently posted:

I suppose it all depends on what you mean by a "fundamentalist". As TP has stated, Christianity is all about faith in a person not a philosophy. To me, as a Christian, faith in Jesus is fundamental so I suppose by that definition I must be a fundamentalist! Unfortunately these days the term fundamentalist has taken on a more sinister meaning - someone who is very judgemental, intolerant and in extreme cases violent to those who do not agree with them (especially in the U.S.A. it seems). These are not the attributes of a “real” Christian.

Do you see all fundamentalists to be the same?
Do you agree with Gofer Blue?
Or do you have another take?

Religious nut jobs wasting their entire lives basically……

[Gofer Blue]

Religious nut jobs wasting their entire lives basically……

I would answer that by saying that I consider I wasted my life BEFORE I became a Christian at the age of 34. When I look back I can scarcely believe how my life has changed since then. I have done so much in the service of Jesus to share his love in practical ways with others, something I would never have done before, being a pretty self centred, I'm alright Jack, prat that I was. I will not elaborate any further because, as the apostle Paul said, we are to boast only about the Lord (Jesus) alone and not what we have done in his name.

[goats]

I would answer that by saying that I consider I wasted my life BEFORE I became a Christian at the age of 34. When I look back I can scarcely believe how my life has changed since then. I have done so much in the service of Jesus to share his love in practical ways with others, something I would never have done before, being a pretty self centred, I'm alright Jack, prat that I was. I will not elaborate any further because, as the apostle Paul said, we are to boast only about the Lord (Jesus) alone and not what we have done in his name.

Love to know what you have done in fact? Or have you just become a decent person after realising you were just a bellend before? I dint mean to jump to conclusions but it’s something I’ve seen first hand with a few born again I know….

[Gofer Blue]

Love to know what you have done in fact? Or have you just become a decent person after realising you were just a bellend before? I dint mean to jump to conclusions but it’s something I’ve seen first hand with a few born again I know….

Let's just say I have "gone the extra mile" many, many times, something which I would never even have considered before. As you say, changed lives are the hallmarks of born-again Christians.

[lardy]

I'd say it's someone who takes a strict and literal interpretation of their texts, often resistant to the way the modern world is developing, and believing their own path is the only true one.

[truthpaste]

I'd say it's someone who takes a strict and literal interpretation of their texts, often resistant to the way the modern world is developing, and believing their own path is the only true one.

In other words, they wear blinkers, ignore modern ideas and stick blindly to God's version of life, origin and destiny.

I think you've summed up the perception of most people who have faith in science and modern philosophers and are hopeful that the worlds best selling book is a fraud, or at best a relic and unrelated to the truth at all.

The big question is, are they wise to make that assumption?

If that were true, then we would see all intelligent scientists reject the Bible in it's given context, we would be able to discredit large sections of the Bible as outdated and irrelevant, just like many science manuals from decades ago, that are now relics from an era of misunderstanding and ignorance that is shown up by current understanding.

However we DO find many scientists that are successful in their field and also acknowledge the Bible is the inerrant Word of God in all it addresses within it's pages; and that it has never been outdated by new discoveries!
In fact it has led to individuals MAKING new discoveries that science did not know before, and yes I can give you examples should you wish to see them.

So I put it to you, that those that believe in the Bible as fundemantal truth in all it addresses are wise, and those that think that science and human thought alone can answer the big questions we all have are ultimately foolish.

[Jordi Culé]

Do you have a definition?

Yes.

Do you have a definition or are you sticking to a description of Jesus being fundamental to you and you alone as your definition?

[Gofer Blue]

Yes.

Do you have a definition or are you sticking to a description of Jesus being fundamental to you and you alone as your definition?

So, what is it then?

Faith in Jesus the person is fundamental to Christianity as whole, not just to me, but to Christians everywhere.

The Bible is not a single book. It consists of two sections, the Old Testament (OT) and the New Testament (NT).
The Old Testament is a collection of thirty-nine books about the history and religion of the people of Israel. Each book possesses a unique tone, style, and message. Individually, they include stories, laws, and sayings that are intended to function as models of religious and ethical conduct. Together, through hundreds of characters and detailed events, they represent a unified narrative about God and his attempt to relate to humankind by relating to a specific group of people.

There is a lot of discussion about the OT, about its historical accuracy and whether some of the stories are factual or based on myths and legends. As TP has said thanks to archaeological studies more and more is being discovered about the accuracy of the information therein. Some things we will never be able to prove but the bottom line for me is that the OT predicts the coming of the Messiah – Jesus.

To me the NT, consisting of 27 books, is the all important part of the Bible (TP will probably disagree with me for lessening the importance of the OT!). It describes the coming of Jesus, his life and times and his words and works here on Earth. It ends with his resurrection after being put to death by crucifixion, then the beginnings of the Christian church and what follows on from that.

The OT I accept as the history and religion of the people of Israel i.e. the Jews and I don't get too hung up on the some of the stranger stuff therein as it has little bearing on the way I and others should live our lives as Christians i.e. as a Gentile follower of Jesus subject to the new covenant, rather than an OT Jew under the old covenant.

From Jesus's teaching it is clear that he is far more concerned about the heart of a person (rather than whether we believe in talking snakes etc.), how we love God and our fellow human beings by putting our faith into action i.e. walking the walk rather than talking the talk!

[truthpaste]

So, what is it then?

Faith in Jesus the person is fundamental to Christianity as whole, not just to me, but to Christians everywhere.

The Bible is not a single book. It consists of two sections, the Old Testament (OT) and the New Testament (NT).
The Old Testament is a collection of thirty-nine books about the history and religion of the people of Israel. Each book possesses a unique tone, style, and message. Individually, they include stories, laws, and sayings that are intended to function as models of religious and ethical conduct. Together, through hundreds of characters and detailed events, they represent a unified narrative about God and his attempt to relate to humankind by relating to a specific group of people.

There is a lot of discussion about the OT, about its historical accuracy and whether some of the stories are factual or based on myths and legends. As TP has said thanks to archaeological studies more and more is being discovered about the accuracy of the information therein. Some things we will never be able to prove but the bottom line for me is that the OT predicts the coming of the Messiah – Jesus.

To me the NT, consisting of 27 books, is the all important part of the Bible (TP will probably disagree with me for lessening the importance of the OT!). It describes the coming of Jesus, his life and times and his words and works here on Earth. It ends with his resurrection after being put to death by crucifixion, then the beginnings of the Christian church and what follows on from that.

The OT I accept as the history and religion of the people of Israel i.e. the Jews and I don't get too hung up on the some of the stranger stuff therein as it has little bearing on the way I and others should live our lives as Christians i.e. as a Gentile follower of Jesus subject to the new covenant, rather than an OT Jew under the old covenant.

From Jesus's teaching it is clear that he is far more concerned about the heart of a person (rather than whether we believe in talking snakes etc.), how we love God and our fellow human beings by putting our faith into action i.e. walking the walk rather than talking the talk!

I wouldn't disagree when it comes to the importance of the NT for seeking the truth re Jesus and why we need Him to resolve our greatest problem.
And in the NT I have noticed that over 80% of the answers (people are seeking) can be found in John's Gospel; and this is probably because John speaks more about who Jesus actually is than any other part of Scripture.

[Jordi Culé]

So, what is it then?

Faith in Jesus the person is fundamental to Christianity as whole, not just to me, but to Christians everywhere.

The Bible is not a single book. It consists of two sections, the Old Testament (OT) and the New Testament (NT).
The Old Testament is a collection of thirty-nine books about the history and religion of the people of Israel. Each book possesses a unique tone, style, and message. Individually, they include stories, laws, and sayings that are intended to function as models of religious and ethical conduct. Together, through hundreds of characters and detailed events, they represent a unified narrative about God and his attempt to relate to humankind by relating to a specific group of people.

There is a lot of discussion about the OT, about its historical accuracy and whether some of the stories are factual or based on myths and legends. As TP has said thanks to archaeological studies more and more is being discovered about the accuracy of the information therein. Some things we will never be able to prove but the bottom line for me is that the OT predicts the coming of the Messiah – Jesus.

To me the NT, consisting of 27 books, is the all important part of the Bible (TP will probably disagree with me for lessening the importance of the OT!). It describes the coming of Jesus, his life and times and his words and works here on Earth. It ends with his resurrection after being put to death by crucifixion, then the beginnings of the Christian church and what follows on from that.

The OT I accept as the history and religion of the people of Israel i.e. the Jews and I don't get too hung up on the some of the stranger stuff therein as it has little bearing on the way I and others should live our lives as Christians i.e. as a Gentile follower of Jesus subject to the new covenant, rather than an OT Jew under the old covenant.

From Jesus's teaching it is clear that he is far more concerned about the heart of a person (rather than whether we believe in talking snakes etc.), how we love God and our fellow human beings by putting our faith into action i.e. walking the walk rather than talking the talk!

Thanks Gofer for your heartfelt and personal thoughts which are interesting to read as you've taken some time to consider your relationship to your chosen religion after much reading.

I don't see that as definition though, it reads more like your individual feelings on the matter.

[truthpaste]

Thanks Gofer for your heartfelt and personal thoughts which are interesting to read as you've taken some time to consider your relationship to your chosen religion after much reading.

I don't see that as definition though, it reads more like your individual feelings on the matter.

I believe that's all we are looking for, to hear and consider other peoples views.

[Gofer Blue]

Thanks Gofer for your heartfelt and personal thoughts which are interesting to read as you've taken some time to consider your relationship to your chosen religion after much reading.

I don't see that as definition though, it reads more like your individual feelings on the matter.

Thanks for your response. OK, so, I'll try to define it in just two sentences – difficult to condense it any further:

A Christian fundamentalist is someone who puts his faith and trust in Jesus Christ and believes that he is God in human form. He/she follows the example set by Jesus by which God expects they should live, whilst accepting that they are human and will never be fully Christ-like, but by his grace they are justified.

Earlier in this thread TBG has defined fundamentalists as: Religious fundamentalists are usually considered to be those who believe that stories in their religious tomes are literal and not metaphorical. I have come across this definition of course but this is only a part of the picture for Christians.

In response to this I would say that for the vast majority of times it is clear when a Bible story is a literal one or metaphorical one but I hold my hands up and admit that there are occasions when that is not clear cut. If I could travel back in time and be a frontline witness I would know for sure but that is not going to happen. All I can say is that if God is indeed the creator of everything, then the seemingly impossible (to 21st century eyes) must be possible?

Again, can I stress that my faith is in Jesus himself. Although he made references to the Old Testament, he rarely mentions much outside the OT books of Isaiah or the Psalms (I found this useful reference about this here: https://biblecentral.info/library/ch...-jesus-christ/ ) In fact, on reading this, I was surprised how little he did quote from the OT.

If some of the more controversial events were that important to Jesus/God he would surely have emphasised them I think, hence I don't worry about them. In fact I think they can be a useful deflection tool for non-believers who would secretly rather that Jesus/God didn't exist, or to demonstrate their supposed intellectual superiority over those who are believers.

Finally, I would be interested to see how you would define “a fundamentalist”.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I didn't 'define' anything. I stated what is widely understood by as being the definition of the word.

[Heathblue]

A Freedom fighter.

[Jordi Culé]

Thanks for your response. OK, so, I'll try to define it in just two sentences – difficult to condense it any further:

A Christian fundamentalist is someone who puts his faith and trust in Jesus Christ and believes that he is God in human form. He/she follows the example set by Jesus by which God expects they should live, whilst accepting that they are human and will never be fully Christ-like, but by his grace they are justified.

Earlier in this thread TBG has defined fundamentalists as: Religious fundamentalists are usually considered to be those who believe that stories in their religious tomes are literal and not metaphorical. I have come across this definition of course but this is only a part of the picture for Christians.

In response to this I would say that for the vast majority of times it is clear when a Bible story is a literal one or metaphorical one but I hold my hands up and admit that there are occasions when that is not clear cut. If I could travel back in time and be a frontline witness I would know for sure but that is not going to happen. All I can say is that if God is indeed the creator of everything, then the seemingly impossible (to 21st century eyes) must be possible?

Again, can I stress that my faith is in Jesus himself. Although he made references to the Old Testament, he rarely mentions much outside the OT books of Isaiah or the Psalms (I found this useful reference about this here: https://biblecentral.info/library/ch...-jesus-christ/ ) In fact, on reading this, I was surprised how little he did quote from the OT.

If some of the more controversial events were that important to Jesus/God he would surely have emphasised them I think, hence I don't worry about them. In fact I think they can be a useful deflection tool for non-believers who would secretly rather that Jesus/God didn't exist, or to demonstrate their supposed intellectual superiority over those who are believers.

Finally, I would be interested to see how you would define “a fundamentalist”.

Religious fundamentalism is the practice of either an individual or a group that look for literal interpretations of original religious books or text. They then practice these teaching in all aspects yo their lives. They believe that their beliefs are the only ones that are 'true' and there is no other interpretation. There is no other option or alternatives to beliefs or teachings.

I have a negative opinion as the lack of flexibility or willingness to accept other people's opinions or beliefs I find confrontational and not pragmatic. It also limits to compromise.

I throwing in that individual religious fundamentalism such as your own differs wildly from some group fundamentalism which is much more problematic in some parts of the world and included violence, retribution and tyranny.

Although you have very strong convictions and beliefs about your faith I'd suggest you also have the capacity to compromise.

The fundamentalism I was referring to, in the context of my original post differs greatly to your understanding and another context all together.

Best of luck to you butt.

[Gofer Blue]

Religious fundamentalism is the practice of either an individual or a group that look for literal interpretations of original religious books or text. They then practice these teaching in all aspects yo their lives. They believe that their beliefs are the only ones that are 'true' and there is no other interpretation. There is no other option or alternatives to beliefs or teachings.

I have a negative opinion as the lack of flexibility or willingness to accept other people's opinions or beliefs I find confrontational and not pragmatic. It also limits to compromise.

I throwing in that individual religious fundamentalism such as your own differs wildly from some group fundamentalism which is much more problematic in some parts of the world and included violence, retribution and tyranny.

Although you have very strong convictions and beliefs about your faith I'd suggest you also have the capacity to compromise.

The fundamentalism I was referring to, in the context of my original post differs greatly to your understanding and another context all together.

Best of luck to you butt.

You probably should not make that assumption about me. Yes, have a strong faith and I am a much more compassionate person since becoming a Christian, (probably deemed a “nice person” in the eyes of the world), but don't forget I am a follower of Jesus.

Now Jesus also had very strong beliefs, was tolerant, but uncompromising. Unlike the “religious” people of his time he was at ease mixing with the “undesirable” folk like prostitutes, beggars, lepers, tax collectors (who were despised as they were collaborators with the hated Roman occupiers) etc. I would argue that if he was intolerant or judgemental of these people he would have stayed well clear of them.

There is the example of the woman who was caught having sex with a man who was not her husband and in accordance with the Jewish law she was about to be stoned to death by a crowd but Jesus intervened. He spoke those now famous words: let anyone of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her, (John 8:7-11) whereby the crowd quietly drifted away, one by one. Jesus had saved the woman from death but then he said to her, go now and leave your life of sin, an uncompromising message if ever there was one i.e. he loved the sinner but hated the sin. He unashamedly did not compromise in any way, but he had compassion on her.

I believe that Jesus was God in human form so in that way he 100% knew what it was like to be human, subject to all the same things that we are: pain, love, moods, temptations, anger etc., yet, unlike me and every person on planet Earth, he was sinless. Other faiths deny this and believe he was just a good human being. I can tolerate the fact that they have this opinion but that's between them and God. I will not compromise my position.

Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” (John 14:6). At face value this seems to be a very arrogant statement, but there is no escaping it, it is crystal clear and he said it! Now folk can either accept it or reject it as being a typical piece of Christian dogma. Again, folk should be made aware of it (that's my job as a Christian so they have a chance to consider it*) but of course they have the free will to make their own decision. It's between them and God, I've done my bit so please leave me out of it. Rest assured I will not resort to coercion or violence or remove parts of anyone's anatomy to “convince” them!

I go about my daily life trying to live in peace with everyone I come across as Jesus would expect me to, but I am not a saint in the vernacular sense (although in the biblical sense I am). The apostle Paul wrote that these are the attributes of a “real” Christian: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. (Galatians 5: 22-23). I can put my hand up and honestly say that I fail every day in most of these!

*”The Great Commission” - Jesus told his disciples to “go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey everything I have told you. And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age”
(Matthew 28:16-20).

[Jordi Culé]

You probably should not make that assumption about me. Yes, have a strong faith and I am a much more compassionate person since becoming a Christian, (probably deemed a “nice person” in the eyes of the world), but don't forget I am a follower of Jesus.

Now Jesus also had very strong beliefs, was tolerant, but uncompromising. Unlike the “religious” people of his time he was at ease mixing with the “undesirable” folk like prostitutes, beggars, lepers, tax collectors (who were despised as they were collaborators with the hated Roman occupiers) etc. I would argue that if he was intolerant or judgemental of these people he would have stayed well clear of them.

There is the example of the woman who was caught having sex with a man who was not her husband and in accordance with the Jewish law she was about to be stoned to death by a crowd but Jesus intervened. He spoke those now famous words: let anyone of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her, (John 8:7-11) whereby the crowd quietly drifted away, one by one. Jesus had saved the woman from death but then he said to her, go now and leave your life of sin, an uncompromising message if ever there was one i.e. he loved the sinner but hated the sin. He unashamedly did not compromise in any way, but he had compassion on her.

I believe that Jesus was God in human form so in that way he 100% knew what it was like to be human, subject to all the same things that we are: pain, love, moods, temptations, anger etc., yet, unlike me and every person on planet Earth, he was sinless. Other faiths deny this and believe he was just a good human being. I can tolerate the fact that they have this opinion but that's between them and God. I will not compromise my position.

Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” (John 14:6). At face value this seems to be a very arrogant statement, but there is no escaping it, it is crystal clear and he said it! Now folk can either accept it or reject it as being a typical piece of Christian dogma. Again, folk should be made aware of it (that's my job as a Christian so they have a chance to consider it*) but of course they have the free will to make their own decision. It's between them and God, I've done my bit so please leave me out of it. Rest assured I will not resort to coercion or violence or remove parts of anyone's anatomy to “convince” them!

I go about my daily life trying to live in peace with everyone I come across as Jesus would expect me to, but I am not a saint in the vernacular sense (although in the biblical sense I am). The apostle Paul wrote that these are the attributes of a “real” Christian: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. (Galatians 5: 22-23). I can put my hand up and honestly say that I fail every day in most of these!

*”The Great Commission” - Jesus told his disciples to “go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey everything I have told you. And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age”
(Matthew 28:16-20).

Thanks Gofer.

An interesting read on your personal thoughts, reflections and how you practice and live by your beliefs.

The tolerance and compassion you practice towards others is only due to your beliefs, you didn't hold these qualities prior to becoming a committed follower of Jesus?

The contrast between your understanding of God is a massive contrast to the Christian Nationalism of some groups in the USA who advocate living and practicing religious values from the Old Testament and this includes stoning individuals for adultery.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...sm-1234797127/

Different interpretations of God and how he would act I suppose?