What do you understand a FUNDAMENTALIST to be?

[truthpaste]

Thanks Gofer.

An interesting read on your personal thoughts, reflections and how you practice and live by your beliefs.

The tolerance and compassion you practice towards others is only due to your beliefs, you didn't hold these qualities prior to becoming a committed follower of Jesus?

The contrast between your understanding of God is a massive contrast to the Christian Nationalism of some groups in the USA who advocate living and practicing religious values from the Old Testament and this includes stoning individuals for adultery.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...sm-1234797127/

Different interpretations of God and how he would act I suppose?

I'm sure Gofer will give you another helpful reply, however just on your final point of 'interpreting' God and His Word, the Bible:-

1. Like any book, we should never dive in and out to extract information without knowing the surrounding context. So many people do, and end up misrepresenting that book, whatever it may be.
2. While Christians still read and learn from the Old Testament, it now mainly provides a platform and deeper interpretaion for what we discover in the New Testament (NT); and in the NT we read about the origin of the Church (see Acts chapter 2) and therefore the instructions (New Covenant) that God has for today, which does NOT include stoning people! There is a lot more to this than what I have said, this is just an overview of the contrast between the Old and New Testaments and God's dealings with mankind.
If you have further questions then please don't hold back.

[Gofer Blue]

Thanks Gofer.

An interesting read on your personal thoughts, reflections and how you practice and live by your beliefs.

The tolerance and compassion you practice towards others is only due to your beliefs, you didn't hold these qualities prior to becoming a committed follower of Jesus?

The contrast between your understanding of God is a massive contrast to the Christian Nationalism of some groups in the USA who advocate living and practicing religious values from the Old Testament and this includes stoning individuals for adultery.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...sm-1234797127/

Different interpretations of God and how he would act I suppose?

Jordi – in answer to your first question, no, I did not hold those qualities before I became a Christian. I was intolerant, judgemental and very lacking in compassion! I am ashamed to admit it but on occasions these traits can occasionally still creep into my mind when I observe what is going on in the world. My main negative reaction these days is anger, anger at all the injustices in the world. I can even get angry with God which is stupid really as the things I get angry about are man-made, but I guess he is big enough to take it.

Re your second question: I am very wary of far right American Christians, not that I know any personally but from what I observe on TV and also from some of the YouTube videos that are out there. One sickening image I remember was of Donald Trump waving a Bible about in front of a church in the USA somewhere. The verse that comes to mind is: By their deeds you will know them. Does a man gather grapes from thorns or figs from briars?” (Matthew 7:16).

The story in the link you provided is quite shocking. As I’ve said before, Jesus came with a new covenant which supercedes the OT covenant. It was quite common in OT days for folk to sacrifice animals as burnt offerings to God as atonement for their sins but Jesus himself was ultimately the supreme sacrifice so this practice is no longer necessary.

The OT takes sin very seriously, as a contamination that can disrupt the good order God places in creation and that can potentially cause chaos in the world. To cleanse sin from the community, life was required. I think Moses who gave the laws to the people was overzealous in his understanding of what God wanted. It was very important to keep order especially when the Jews were involved in the exodus. Of course, it’s very difficult for us 21st century folk to get our head around these ancient customs. Maybe this is where these American Christian Nationalists are getting their ideas from i.e. remove offenders from society (permanently) in order to maintain social order!

[Jordi Culé]

Jordi – in answer to your first question, no, I did not hold those qualities before I became a Christian. I was intolerant, judgemental and very lacking in compassion! I am ashamed to admit it but on occasions these traits can occasionally still creep into my mind when I observe what is going on in the world. My main negative reaction these days is anger, anger at all the injustices in the world. I can even get angry with God which is stupid really as the things I get angry about are man-made, but I guess he is big enough to take it.

Re your second question: I am very wary of far right American Christians, not that I know any personally but from what I observe on TV and also from some of the YouTube videos that are out there. One sickening image I remember was of Donald Trump waving a Bible about in front of a church in the USA somewhere. The verse that comes to mind is: By their deeds you will know them. Does a man gather grapes from thorns or figs from briars?” (Matthew 7:16).

The story in the link you provided is quite shocking. As I’ve said before, Jesus came with a new covenant which supercedes the OT covenant. It was quite common in OT days for folk to sacrifice animals as burnt offerings to God as atonement for their sins but Jesus himself was ultimately the supreme sacrifice so this practice is no longer necessary.

The OT takes sin very seriously, as a contamination that can disrupt the good order God places in creation and that can potentially cause chaos in the world. To cleanse sin from the community, life was required. I think Moses who gave the laws to the people was overzealous in his understanding of what God wanted. It was very important to keep order especially when the Jews were involved in the exodus. Of course, it’s very difficult for us 21st century folk to get our head around these ancient customs. Maybe this is where these American Christian Nationalists are getting their ideas from i.e. remove offenders from society (permanently) in order to maintain social order!

Cheers for your very personal contribution. Takes something to do that on an open forum but I guess you're happy answering any questions.

If religion/Christianity works for you then great. I've no problem with people's personal beliefs, it's a bit colloquial and probably simplistic but "whatever floats your boat..."

I obviously 'don't believe' but do recognise religion can make some people better personalities for whatever reasons that maybe.

I'm an atheist but there again so was Han Solo.

I live with a church goer and alhough we have had theological discussions it's never descended into argument and they've never felt the need to suggest my lifestyle or beliefs are wrong.

I do take issue with any religious groups/parties who try to set an agenda or pass down doctrines on others where my use of the term 'fundamentalist' was used, with a negative view. You've taken your time to clear that up and we've agreed the term can be construed and interpreted in different ways with a number of meanings.

[goats]

You probably should not make that assumption about me. Yes, have a strong faith and I am a much more compassionate person since becoming a Christian, (probably deemed a “nice person” in the eyes of the world), but don't forget I am a follower of Jesus.

Now Jesus also had very strong beliefs, was tolerant, but uncompromising. Unlike the “religious” people of his time he was at ease mixing with the “undesirable” folk like prostitutes, beggars, lepers, tax collectors (who were despised as they were collaborators with the hated Roman occupiers) etc. I would argue that if he was intolerant or judgemental of these people he would have stayed well clear of them.

There is the example of the woman who was caught having sex with a man who was not her husband and in accordance with the Jewish law she was about to be stoned to death by a crowd but Jesus intervened. He spoke those now famous words: let anyone of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her, (John 8:7-11) whereby the crowd quietly drifted away, one by one. Jesus had saved the woman from death but then he said to her, go now and leave your life of sin, an uncompromising message if ever there was one i.e. he loved the sinner but hated the sin. He unashamedly did not compromise in any way, but he had compassion on her.

I believe that Jesus was God in human form so in that way he 100% knew what it was like to be human, subject to all the same things that we are: pain, love, moods, temptations, anger etc., yet, unlike me and every person on planet Earth, he was sinless. Other faiths deny this and believe he was just a good human being. I can tolerate the fact that they have this opinion but that's between them and God. I will not compromise my position.

Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” (John 14:6). At face value this seems to be a very arrogant statement, but there is no escaping it, it is crystal clear and he said it! Now folk can either accept it or reject it as being a typical piece of Christian dogma. Again, folk should be made aware of it (that's my job as a Christian so they have a chance to consider it*) but of course they have the free will to make their own decision. It's between them and God, I've done my bit so please leave me out of it. Rest assured I will not resort to coercion or violence or remove parts of anyone's anatomy to “convince” them!

I go about my daily life trying to live in peace with everyone I come across as Jesus would expect me to, but I am not a saint in the vernacular sense (although in the biblical sense I am). The apostle Paul wrote that these are the attributes of a “real” Christian: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. (Galatians 5: 22-23). I can put my hand up and honestly say that I fail every day in most of these!

*”The Great Commission” - Jesus told his disciples to “go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey everything I have told you. And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age”
(Matthew 28:16-20).

It does amaze me somewhat that people actually believe the stuff written about a bloke called Jesus 2000 yrs ago, it’s more than likely all bollocks, like most old stories, which seem to grow in obscureness as the years roll by. Not forgetting that the church used fear to rule so would regularly peddle lies and mis information to control the people. Lastly, stuff that was relevant so long ago, really isn’t now.
Morals and being kind, curtious etc will always be in favour but looking how beliefs of just 20/30 years ago are not tolerated anymore and some that might have you clipped 100 yrs ago, like being gay, are now fine, make stuff written so long ago almost completely irrelevant. You will never see that though….I fully get that…

[Gofer Blue]

It does amaze me somewhat that people actually believe the stuff written about a bloke called Jesus 2000 yrs ago, it’s more than likely all bollocks, like most old stories, which seem to grow in obscureness as the years roll by. Not forgetting that the church used fear to rule so would regularly peddle lies and mis information to control the people. Lastly, stuff that was relevant so long ago, really isn’t now.
Morals and being kind, curtious etc will always be in favour but looking how beliefs of just 20/30 years ago are not tolerated anymore and some that might have you clipped 100 yrs ago, like being gay, are now fine, make stuff written so long ago almost completely irrelevant. You will never see that though….I fully get that…

In pretty short supply in this country these days I find. For example, our politicians aren't setting particularly good standards of morals, kindness or courtesy. Also this forum can sometimes be a microcosm in that regard!

[goats]

In pretty short supply in this country these days I find. For example, our politicians aren't setting particularly good standards of morals, kindness or courtesy. Also this forum can sometimes be a microcosm in that regard!

Don’t ever look at politicians as a benchmark for society surely? Absolute freaks of nature most of them, so out of touch with anything real. We really need a new political system.

[Citizen's Nephew]

....just for fun....A fundamentalist, at the core, adheres staunchly to the fundamental principles of a particular doctrine, often showcasing an unwavering commitment to the foundational tenets that form the very fundament of their beliefs. This adherence is not merely superficial; it is fundamentally rooted in a deep-seated conviction that the base principles are not just central but absolutely essential. The mindset of a fundamentalist, thus, revolves around preserving the purity of these core ideals, considering them the fundamental axis around which their entire belief system orbits, often leading to a rigid interpretation that eschews deviation from what is perceived as the fundamental truth.....

TED talk at Grangetown Pavilion 2 hours before KO on Saturday. Bring food.

Edit: I've played all the Assassin's Creed games and I am a hidden one.

[Gofer Blue]

....just for fun....A fundamentalist, at the core, adheres staunchly to the fundamental principles of a particular doctrine, often showcasing an unwavering commitment to the foundational tenets that form the very fundament of their beliefs. This adherence is not merely superficial; it is fundamentally rooted in a deep-seated conviction that the base principles are not just central but absolutely essential. The mindset of a fundamentalist, thus, revolves around preserving the purity of these core ideals, considering them the fundamental axis around which their entire belief system orbits, often leading to a rigid interpretation that eschews deviation from what is perceived as the fundamental truth.....

TED talk at Grangetown Pavilion 2 hours before KO on Saturday. Bring food.

Edit: I've played all the Assassin's Creed games and I am a hidden one.

Brilliant Ever thought of becoming a politician? Clearly you have the ability to make a long and apparently meaningful sounding speech whilst actually saying very little!

[life on mars]

Groups that highjack decent societies to then push their agenda only , based on their narrow view of a principles that a free , decent and inclusive society does not want .

I don't mind that being a thing in their own lands , churches and societies just keep it away from my world and children partially the ones that die in incidents like the Manchester Arena bombing .

Strangely Fundamentalist highjack the gullible in life , in particularly socialists parties and open/free democratic societies like the UK .

They don't allow Christians' , gay , free speech fundamental rights in their own lands , and even within thier own households in the UK .

I laugh at the fact that folk like LGBTQIA+ - ++ -- etc. join these marches not knowing a thing about the very societies /people they march alongside these organizations are hate preachers , they hate LGBTQIA+ communities , free speech, Christianity ( in fact they murder /massacre them in their home lands , and treat woman as dirt ) .

From the river to the sea , evil , buggers .

Has anyone seen a suicide Jewish bomber in the UK ??????

[jon1959]

Well fundament means 'buttocks', 'arse' or 'a nus'.

So I'm guessing fundamentalist means.......

[Citizen's Nephew]

Well fundament means 'buttocks', 'arse' or 'a nus'.

So I'm guessing fundamentalist means.......

[truthpaste]

I agree with Gofer Blue's comments (above) and when he says:

To cleanse sin from the community, life was required. I think Moses who gave the laws to the people was overzealous in his understanding of what God wanted. It was very important to keep order especially when the Jews were involved in the exodus. Of course, it’s very difficult for us 21st century folk to get our head around these ancient customs.

I just want to say that God gave us the Law (mainly via Moses) to show us that we are all law breakers, and don't meet His required standards. Or as Romans 3v23 puts it, "For ALL have sinned and fall short of God's glory" - only one Man in history has ever lived and met those standards, and that of course is Christ Jesus.
We will all ultimately die because we are sinners, 'the wages of sin is death' (Romans 6v23), however death could NOT take Christ, because He was without sin - so to fulfill His Mission - He chose to lay down His perfect life (on the Cross) as an offering to God the Father so that we (through that perfect sacrifice) can be declared righteous before a Holy God. Everyone who repents and accepts that Gift of forgiveness and choose Christ as their Lord & God will be forgiven, immediately and forever.

This is the key message of the entire Bible, and I appreciate that the above summary may produce many other questions; however if you want to ask them here of via PM then I would be delighted to answer them.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Christians always come out with this Jesus said this when he spoke to the disciples etc etc

How do they know what this Jesus character said ?

It was 2000 years ago for gawds sake and what he was supposed to have said was sometimes reported several hundred years after his death

I mean if I was going to devote my life to someone I would want more evidence than what may have been said 2000 years ago

According to Jesus, Jesus taught us , John said when speaking to the Hebrews......etc etc

Seriously at least science proves that if you don't drink water for 2 weeks you will snuff it .......fact

It's all fairy tales and religious people are being conned

[goats]

Christians always come out with this Jesus said this when he spoke to the disciples etc etc

How do they know what this Jesus character said ?

It was 2000 years ago for gawds sake and what he was supposed to have said was sometimes reported several hundred years after his death

I mean if I was going to devote my life to someone I would want more evidence than what may have been said 2000 years ago

According to Jesus, Jesus taught us , John said when speaking to the Hebrews......etc etc

Seriously at least science proves that if you don't drink water for 2 weeks you will snuff it .......fact

It's all fairy tales and religious people are being conned

This is exactly what I was alluding too…it’s just nonsense that anyone knows anything about back then. Someone wrote scripts of it did they? So who was that? Someone with an agenda? The local drunk or a vicar trying to control people with fear as was the way…..
Whatever makes you happy, great, but in my eyes you’re just wasting your life dedicating your entire being to it. Just be nice and treat people like you like to be….its simple.

[jeepster]

This is exactly what I was alluding too…it’s just nonsense that anyone knows anything about back then. Someone wrote scripts of it did they? So who was that? Someone with an agenda? The local drunk or a vicar trying to control people with fear as was the way…..
Whatever makes you happy, great, but in my eyes you’re just wasting your life dedicating your entire being to it. Just be nice and treat people like you like to be….its simple.

True,you do not have to be a christian to treat others with respect.

[Gofer Blue]

Christians always come out with this Jesus said this when he spoke to the disciples etc etc

How do they know what this Jesus character said ?

It was 2000 years ago for gawds sake and what he was supposed to have said was sometimes reported several hundred years after his death

I mean if I was going to devote my life to someone I would want more evidence than what may have been said 2000 years ago

According to Jesus, Jesus taught us , John said when speaking to the Hebrews......etc etc

Seriously at least science proves that if you don't drink water for 2 weeks you will snuff it .......fact

It's all fairy tales and religious people are being conned

Sludge - I suspect if Jesus turned up at your house tomorrow you would still not accept it was all true - you would dismiss it as an hallucination/a conjuring trick/a hologram/a dream or a Tory scam.

BTW this often quoted old tale that the gospels were written hundreds of years after his death simply won't wash anymore, more like 50 to 60 years max. If anyone wanted to talk to me about significant events that happened 60 years I would easily be able to recall them. Obviously it would be my recollection of the event, other people would, I suspect, have a slightly different recollection - no surprise there. Examples would be the Cuban missile crisis (1962), the winter of 1962/63 and the assassination of JFK in 1963.

[Dave Blue]

Christians always come out with this Jesus said this when he spoke to the disciples etc etc

How do they know what this Jesus character said ?

It was 2000 years ago for gawds sake and what he was supposed to have said was sometimes reported several hundred years after his death

I mean if I was going to devote my life to someone I would want more evidence than what may have been said 2000 years ago

According to Jesus, Jesus taught us , John said when speaking to the Hebrews......etc etc

Seriously at least science proves that if you don't drink water for 2 weeks you will snuff it .......fact

It's all fairy tales and religious people are being conned

Faith is accepting something even though you haven’t seen it. Surely you can grasp that? Don’t you think there must be something in ‘these fairy stories’ you easily dismiss that has brought people to faith for 2000 years when other ‘fairy stories’ don’t last 2 minutes? There is little ‘control’ on our lives these days yet this faith survives and is prospering all over the world. A bit deep to dismiss casually as bollocks don’t you think?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Faith in God is very low in scientists


And very high in poor populations with little education



It's surely no surprise that poverty striken Africa and South America has huge levels of religious activity .......mostly started by missionaries ......and brain washing

But in advanced , educated society religion is far less of a factor ........

If religion is growing then the declining Church numbers in the UK suggest that it isn't the case here

[goats]

Faith is accepting something even though you haven’t seen it. Surely you can grasp that? Don’t you think there must be something in ‘these fairy stories’ you easily dismiss that has brought people to faith for 2000 years when other ‘fairy stories’ don’t last 2 minutes? There is little ‘control’ on our lives these days yet this faith survives and is prospering all over the world. A bit deep to dismiss casually as bollocks don’t you think?

It’s hardly surviving is it? Barely anyone under 75 goes to church. Religion causes far more issues than it solves in my eyes. The only young people I know that became religious were lost souls, desperately seeking help somehow be it from drugs, abuse or a bad upbringing…..

[Gofer Blue]

.

[Gofer Blue]

It’s hardly surviving is it? Barely anyone under 75 goes to church. Religion causes far more issues than it solves in my eyes. The only young people I know that became religious were lost souls, desperately seeking help somehow be it from drugs, abuse or a bad upbringing…..

Really?

Is that a bad thing then?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Faith is accepting something even though you haven’t seen it. Surely you can grasp that? Don’t you think there must be something in ‘these fairy stories’ you easily dismiss that has brought people to faith for 2000 years when other ‘fairy stories’ don’t last 2 minutes? There is little ‘control’ on our lives these days yet this faith survives and is prospering all over the world. A bit deep to dismiss casually as bollocks don’t you think?

People have been indoctrinated by the state, by conquering powers and their community regarding religions and millions of people believe in dogmas other than Christianity. Indeed, even Abrahamism has such deep schisms that they perceived the role of Jesus differently.
Christianity was transported around Europe by the Roman Empire and by subsequent colonial expansion from countries that were under the yoke of that Empire originally.
Language travelled along that same conduit and that's why most South Americans speak Spanish and are Catholics by default - and let's not forget than non-believers around the world were punished for being non-believers (or deemed as being punished in various types of hell) and persecuted for expounding a different model of the universe than stated in various religious tomes.
The Bible didn't land in Earth in the format it is now and has been tinkered with, edited, parts thrown out and those parts remain are often contradictory, ridiculously fanciful (talking snakes, talking donkeys, virgin births etc) and are merely the product of bronze age primitivity. The various authors thereof knew very little, if anything, about microbes, atoms, electricity, plate tectonics, the universe and a million other things.
A great many of stories in the Bible were lifted from preceding religions, which few adherents seem to know about or take on board.
It's fascinating folklore but it's not stand-alone stuff if you study religion. And religion has not been a free choice historically. Children have been indoctrinated by fear and reward of religions in their communities for millennia. It's no coincidence that believers tend to follow the religion of their immediate community rather than have an overview of world religions. It's indoctrination and without sufficient proof for critical thinkers.
To believe in a talking snake and the Garden of Eden (also lifted from previous religions) is pure unquestioning gullibility - just as many of the stories are. People in other cultures and who have been similarly indoctrinated still believe in a god with an elephant's head and gods who are polar bears and lizards. It's just a case of unquestioning belief in something that unknown primitive people came up with.
I can't remember having a discussion with any believers who acknowledge that their religion was grafted from a preceding one as they tend not to look into things that much and merely see their version of their religion as a template for all else to fit in with. Funnily enough, their religion and schism thereof, is usually the first one they are exposed to as a child.
I would be surprised if you were to come across a member of the Inuit people who believed in Shiva, someone raised as a Catholic in Cardiff who believed in the polar bear god or someone from Outer Mongolia who believed in Wodin or Janus.
The language we speak and the religions we traditionally worshipped throughout history are merely cultural appropriations.
Fascinating - but it's folklore.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

People have been indoctrinated by the state, by conquering powers and their community regarding religions and millions of people believe in dogmas other than Christianity. Indeed, even Abrahamism has such deep schisms that they perceived the role of Jesus differently.
Christianity was transported around Europe by the Roman Empire and by subsequent colonial expansion from countries that were under the yoke of that Empire originally.
Language travelled along that same conduit and that's why most South Americans speak Spanish and are Catholics by default - and let's not forget than non-believers around the world were punished for being non-believers (or deemed as being punished in various types of hell) and persecuted for expounding a different model of the universe than stated in various religious tomes.
The Bible didn't land in Earth in the format it is now and has been tinkered with, edited, parts thrown out and those parts remain are often contradictory, ridiculously fanciful (talking snakes, talking donkeys, virgin births etc) and are merely the product of bronze age primitivity. The various authors thereof knew very little, if anything, about microbes, atoms, electricity, plate tectonics, the universe and a million other things.
A great many of stories in the Bible were lifted from preceding religions, which few adherents seem to know about or take on board.
It's fascinating folklore but it's not stand-alone stuff if you study religion. And religion has not been a free choice historically. Children have been indoctrinated by fear and reward of religions in their communities for millennia. It's no coincidence that believers tend to follow the religion of their immediate community rather than have an overview of world religions. It's indoctrination and without sufficient proof for critical thinkers.
To believe in a talking snake and the Garden of Eden (also lifted from previous religions) is pure unquestioning gullibility - just as many of the stories are. People in other cultures and who have been similarly indoctrinated still believe in a god with an elephant's head and gods who are polar bears and lizards. It's just a case of unquestioning belief in something that unknown primitive people came up with.
I can't remember having a discussion with any believers who acknowledge that their religion was grafted from a preceding one as they tend not to look into things that much and merely see their version of their religion as a template for all else to fit in with. Funnily enough, their religion and schism thereof, is usually the first one they are exposed to as a child.
I would be surprised if you were to come across a member of the Inuit people who believed in Shiva, someone raised as a Catholic in Cardiff who believed in the polar bear god or someone from Outer Mongolia who believed in Wodin or Janus.
The language we speak and the religions we traditionally worshipped throughout history are merely cultural appropriations.
Fascinating - but it's folklore.

Apart from the appalling liar that is 'truthpaste' what do Christians on here think about regarding:

1.The Noah's Ark story mimmicking the Sumerian legend of Ziusudra, the subsequent Old Babylonian story of Atrahasisand the story of Ushnapistim. In those cases the world was flooded due to the gods being angry with human beings.

2. The story of Moses mimicking that of Sargon, who was put in a basket in the river.

3. The story of Job mimicking that of Ludlul-bēl-Numēqi.

4. The story of the Garden of Eden and having to leave it naked due to falling victim to temptation mimicking the story of Enkidu.

5. The story of Jonah mimicking that of Saktideva.

6. The story of the tower of Babel in preceding Hindu and Armenian culture?

7. The Moses story mimicking that of Dionysus.

8. Abraham offering up his son mimicking that of Harishchandra.

9. The Holy Trinity mimicking that of Brahma, Vishnu, And Shiva.

10. The Ten Commandments mimmicking much of the Egyptian Bookof The Dead.

11. The narrative of the Apocalypse largely mimicking the Zoroastrian stoty of the “Frashokereti”.

12. Jesus' compassion for the sick and poor and the creator of miracles mimicking the story of Asclepius.

13. The character of Samson mimicking the Sumerian Enkidu and the Greek Heracles.

14. The concept of the struggle of good against evil and demons mimicking the story of Zoroastrianism.

15. The virgin birth mimicking that of Zoroaster and Erichthonius.

16. The act of turning water into wine mimicking that of Dionysus.

17. The story of Abraham mimicking that of Harishchandra.

18. Jesus not being seduced by temptation mimicking the story of Siddhārtha.

19. The Book of Proverbs mimicking the Instruction of Amenemope.

On the other hand there is no proof whatsoever about the Biblical virgin birth, a talking snake, a talking donkey, anyone being turned to salt, Noah living until he was 950, the universe being created within a week, the ground under St David miraculously rising so that he could address a crowd, people rising from the dead (and there were lots of them described in the Bible), the parting of the Red Sea and a lot else.

Religions are fascinating folklore but that's exactly what they are - and how anyone can believe them as being literal in the 21st century when they were collated by people who had little or no idea about atoms, plate tectonics, bacteria, space-time, electricity, evolution and all the other things we know about now, I don't know. Well, I do really. It's down to indoctrination as a child.

[truthpaste]

Apart from the appalling liar that is 'truthpaste' what do Christians on here think about regarding:

1.The Noah's Ark story mimmicking the Sumerian legend of Ziusudra, the subsequent Old Babylonian story of Atrahasisand the story of Ushnapistim. In those cases the world was flooded due to the gods being angry with human beings.

2. The story of Moses mimicking that of Sargon, who was put in a basket in the river.

3. The story of Job mimicking that of Ludlul-bēl-Numēqi.

4. The story of the Garden of Eden and having to leave it naked due to falling victim to temptation mimicking the story of Enkidu.

5. The story of Jonah mimicking that of Saktideva.

6. The story of the tower of Babel in preceding Hindu and Armenian culture?

7. The Moses story mimicking that of Dionysus.

8. Abraham offering up his son mimicking that of Harishchandra.

9. The Holy Trinity mimicking that of Brahma, Vishnu, And Shiva.

10. The Ten Commandments mimmicking much of the Egyptian Bookof The Dead.

11. The narrative of the Apocalypse largely mimicking the Zoroastrian stoty of the “Frashokereti”.

12. Jesus' compassion for the sick and poor and the creator of miracles mimicking the story of Asclepius.

13. The character of Samson mimicking the Sumerian Enkidu and the Greek Heracles.

14. The concept of the struggle of good against evil and demons mimicking the story of Zoroastrianism.

15. The virgin birth mimicking that of Zoroaster and Erichthonius.

16. The act of turning water into wine mimicking that of Dionysus.

17. The story of Abraham mimicking that of Harishchandra.

18. Jesus not being seduced by temptation mimicking the story of Siddhārtha.

19. The Book of Proverbs mimicking the Instruction of Amenemope.

On the other hand there is no proof whatsoever about the Biblical virgin birth, a talking snake, a talking donkey, anyone being turned to salt, Noah living until he was 950, the universe being created within a week, the ground under St David miraculously rising so that he could address a crowd, people rising from the dead (and there were lots of them described in the Bible), the parting of the Red Sea and a lot else.

Religions are fascinating folklore but that's exactly what they are - and how anyone can believe them as being literal in the 21st century when they were collated by people who had little or no idea about atoms, plate tectonics, bacteria, space-time, electricity, evolution and all the other things we know about now, I don't know. Well, I do really. It's down to indoctrination as a child.

So you've bought into Evolution as absolute truth and rejected man-made religion for what it is, just as flawed as evolution.
Like many Roman Catholics (which you may or may not have been), you have rejected it as one big mess. Join a long confused queue, that is hardly unique.

What Gofer (and others) have here is nothing to do with that, and the sooner you can spot the difference, the less irrational and confused you will be.

[Gofer Blue]

Apart from the appalling liar that is 'truthpaste' what do Christians on here think about regarding:

1.The Noah's Ark story mimmicking the Sumerian legend of Ziusudra, the subsequent Old Babylonian story of Atrahasisand the story of Ushnapistim. In those cases the world was flooded due to the gods being angry with human beings.

2. The story of Moses mimicking that of Sargon, who was put in a basket in the river.

3. The story of Job mimicking that of Ludlul-bēl-Numēqi.

4. The story of the Garden of Eden and having to leave it naked due to falling victim to temptation mimicking the story of Enkidu.

5. The story of Jonah mimicking that of Saktideva.

6. The story of the tower of Babel in preceding Hindu and Armenian culture?

7. The Moses story mimicking that of Dionysus.

8. Abraham offering up his son mimicking that of Harishchandra.

9. The Holy Trinity mimicking that of Brahma, Vishnu, And Shiva.

10. The Ten Commandments mimmicking much of the Egyptian Bookof The Dead.

11. The narrative of the Apocalypse largely mimicking the Zoroastrian stoty of the “Frashokereti”.

12. Jesus' compassion for the sick and poor and the creator of miracles mimicking the story of Asclepius.

13. The character of Samson mimicking the Sumerian Enkidu and the Greek Heracles.

14. The concept of the struggle of good against evil and demons mimicking the story of Zoroastrianism.

15. The virgin birth mimicking that of Zoroaster and Erichthonius.

16. The act of turning water into wine mimicking that of Dionysus.

17. The story of Abraham mimicking that of Harishchandra.

18. Jesus not being seduced by temptation mimicking the story of Siddhārtha.

19. The Book of Proverbs mimicking the Instruction of Amenemope.

On the other hand there is no proof whatsoever about the Biblical virgin birth, a talking snake, a talking donkey, anyone being turned to salt, Noah living until he was 950, the universe being created within a week, the ground under St David miraculously rising so that he could address a crowd, people rising from the dead (and there were lots of them described in the Bible), the parting of the Red Sea and a lot else.

Religions are fascinating folklore but that's exactly what they are - and how anyone can believe them as being literal in the 21st century when they were collated by people who had little or no idea about atoms, plate tectonics, bacteria, space-time, electricity, evolution and all the other things we know about now, I don't know. Well, I do really. It's down to indoctrination as a child.

I note you use the word mimicking in each of your examples.

I suppose my reply to all this supposed plagiarism would have to be…why? i.e. why would a Hebrew author need to do that? Indeed, would he have had knowledge of these examples as they were presumably written in different languages in different places at different times? Also should it be surprising that the recording of some of these different events may have happened elsewhere e.g. the flood – if this was a universal catastrophe then there may have been other survivors in other countries who would have recorded the same event? I bet Job was not the only person on the planet to be angry with God because he had a raw deal in life!

I wonder if any of the other writers of the events you list prophesised the coming of the Messiah, Jesus Christ, God in human form, as the writers of the book of Isaiah did? (I understand that there may have been several writers who contributed to this book). IMO this book is one of the most important in the OT as it points to the coming of Christ although it was written at least 400 years before that. This would beg the question what text did the author(s) “mimic” when this book was written if we follow the plagiarism line that you are proposing. I would be interested to know.

You ask…how anyone can believe these stories as being literal in the 21st century when they were collated by people who had little or no idea about atoms, plate tectonics, bacteria, space-time, electricity, evolution and all the other things we know about now, I don't know. Well, I do really. It's down to indoctrination as a child.

Well, modern man may know a lot about atoms, plate tectonics, bacteria, space-time, electricity, evolution and all the other things we know about now, but he has learned precious little about the basic but important things that Jesus spoke about like justice, self-control, selflessness, envy, greed, hate and aggression. Indeed we seem to be in reverse rather than "evolving" into perfection or maybe you haven’t noticed how things are going lately?

As to indoctrination of a child, that’s possible of course but children do grow up to be questioning teenagers/adults!