Looking at the national league- many of our 90s and 00s rivals in it

[Father Dougal]

Southend, Oldham, Halifax, Barnet, Chesterfield, York,, hartlepool.

Used to play those week in week out in the 90s.

Yet some like Brentford fulham, luton and Brighton in the Premier league.

Not really making any point so i dont expect any replies just an observation.

[blue matt]

Southend, Oldham, Halifax, Barnet, Chesterfield, York

Yet some like Brentford fulham and Brighton in the Premier league.

Not really making any point so i dont expect any replies just an observation.

Even down to Nat League south

I have just got my tickets for Bath FC V Torquay

Torquay entered administration this week


When people moan on here, it makes me smile, as things are not that bad

[Father Dougal]

Even down to Nat League south

I have just got my tickets for Bath FC V Torquay

Torquay entered administration this week


When people moan on here, it makes me smile, as things are not that bad

I would say though we have found our natural level. Mid table championship is where we should be the size of our club in the natural order of things.

We aren't a torquay or Barnet or Halifax and the 90s were below our par but there probably are about 30 clubs in England bigger than us.

[blue matt]

I would say though we have found our natural level. Mid table championship is where we should be the size of our club in the natural order of things.

We aren't a torquay or Barnet or Halifax and the 90s were below our par but there probably are about 30 clubs in England bigger than us.

you are right, teams ultimately find the lever they should be, look at Yeovil, a season in the championship and then the slide back down, thy are a good nat league team, when they slide down to Nat South last year, you knew they would bounce back up this season ( though having a wobble at the mo )

mid Champ league place for us, it could be worse, the occasional go at the play-offs, thats fine aswell

[Father Dougal]

you are right, teams ultimately find the lever they should be, look at Yeovil, a season in the championship and then the slide back down, thy are a good nat league team, when they slide down to Nat South last year, you knew they would bounce back up this season ( though having a wobble at the mo )

mid Champ league place for us, it could be worse, the occasional go at the play-offs, thats fine aswell

Yep you get those like Brentford and Luton who have been very well run who get to the very top which is brilliant. But they won't stick around there.

Same as Derby Sunderland Leeds Sheffield Wednesday. All went down to league 1 but all back stronger.

I think a lot of our anxieties around relegation are would we actually come back? It's interesting that sides like Ipswich Luton swansea Sunderland Brentford Bournemouth over the years have formed a new style in leagues 1 and 2 and taken that forward to the Premier league. You can't really find a new style in the Championship.

I feel we are like Stoke and Birmingham now in that we are kind of stuck in the Championship. Too afraid to try anything different so bumbling along is safest option.

Relegation could reignite the club, could bring some youngsters in doing well and some fun promotion campaigns (let's be honest if things continue relegation is still coming) but the fear is we have another 20 years being unable to get out and could even slide again.

Derby and Sunderland fans may have felt the same but it always felt inevitable they'd he back stronger. Not sure can say the same for us.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Yep you get those like Brentford and Luton who have been very well run who get to the very top which is brilliant. But they won't stick around there.

Same as Derby Sunderland Leeds Sheffield Wednesday. All went down to league 1 but all back stronger.

I think a lot of our anxieties around relegation are would we actually come back? It's interesting that sides like Ipswich Luton swansea Sunderland Brentford Bournemouth over the years have formed a new style in leagues 1 and 2 and taken that forward to the Premier league. You can't really find a new style in the Championship.

I feel we are like Stoke and Birmingham now in that we are kind of stuck in the Championship. Too afraid to try anything different so bumbling along is safest option.

Relegation could reignite the club, could bring some youngsters in doing well and some fun promotion campaigns (let's be honest if things continue relegation is still coming) but the fear is we have another 20 years being unable to get out and could even slide again.

Derby and Sunderland fans may have felt the same but it always felt inevitable they'd he back stronger. Not sure can say the same for us.

It's an interesting stat that, whenever we have dropped into the third tier, we've had better crowds when we've been going for promotion from the third tier than we did in being relegated.

I'd be interested to know why our crowds in the early 1970s halved from 1971 to 1973. It must have been more than just selling Toshack, more like going from a side that finished 3rd and just missed out on promotion, to a side avoiding relegation for a couple of seasons. The 70s and 80s were also a period of decline in attendances. Wolves went from an average of nearly 26k in 1980 to 4k in the third division 6 seasons later, yet had 14k in the same division 3 years later when they won it. I don't think it helped us that we were relegated at a time when the game across the UK was in such decline and our hooligan issues won't have encouraged others.

Our crowds have been more consistent over the last decade or so than probably at any other time in our history. We know we can virtually sell out our ground in the Premier League. Give us a season of decent football and challenging properly for the playoffs and we'll get well over 20k. There's not a shred of evidence to suggest our crowds would be decimated if we were relegated and had a good season the following year. In fact, most clubs get bigger crowds in the third tier if they're doing well than they did when they were relegated.

[Des Parrot]

Even down to Nat League south

I have just got my tickets for Bath FC V Torquay

Torquay entered administration this week

When people moan on here, it makes me smile, as things are not that bad

Plus: Aldershot, Rochdale & Kidderminster

Next level down:

Torquay, Yeovil, Hereford, Maidstone, Scarboro, Darlington, Scunthorpe, Chester, Boston, Southport
Rushden are still around somewhere as are Macclesfield & Bury
Probably others I’ve missed!

[Nobody's Rep]

I would say though we have found our natural level. Mid table championship is where we should be the size of our club in the natural order of things.

We aren't a torquay or Barnet or Halifax and the 90s were below our par but there probably are about 30 clubs in England bigger than us.

Totally agree as we probably have around 15-16 thousand "regulars" who either buy season tickets or go as often as they can, numbers despite fairly consistent "success" relative to us over the last 20 years or so? - a couple of far bigger clubs below us as well such as Sheffield Wednesday, Derby, etc

[Nobody's Rep]

I feel we are like Stoke and Birmingham now in that we are kind of stuck in the Championship. Too afraid to try anything different so bumbling along is safest option.

For me it doesn't seem to be fear to do something different - we have had a range of different managers over the time - old, young, untried, experienced, home grown, overseas, internal, external

For me it is the lack of experience at board level and now what appears to be a split - dalman seemed to indicate bulut was his man and he was back excited at being involved in the club - surely it should be presented as a club appointment

For me until we have new ownership (and I'm not anti tan by any stretch just feel he has outlived his time here) we will continue to bumble along but not because of fear but ineptitude above - so changing another manager is treating the symptoms and not the root cause and the treatment will inevitably be the wrong medication with some unpalatable side affects

[tforturton]

I regularly look at the lower leagues (National League and below), watching the progress of clubs who were once in the League proper. There are dozens of them. I guess this is a good thing, as 1. it shows the pyramid system is working, and 2. increasing the number of teams that can get promoted/relegated means clubs can make that leap, if they have the talent and backing.

[Dembe]

Southend, Oldham, Halifax, Barnet, Chesterfield, York,, hartlepool.

Used to play those week in week out in the 90s.

Yet some like Brentford fulham, luton and Brighton in the Premier league.

Not really making any point so i dont expect any replies just an observation.

Something ive regularly done is look at the tables and spot trams that have fallen through the divisions, ones that used to be in the PL bu aren't anymore etc. If anyone g its a time killer and also interesting

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Yep you get those like Brentford and Luton who have been very well run who get to the very top which is brilliant. But they won't stick around there.

Same as Derby Sunderland Leeds Sheffield Wednesday. All went down to league 1 but all back stronger.

I think a lot of our anxieties around relegation are would we actually come back? It's interesting that sides like Ipswich Luton swansea Sunderland Brentford Bournemouth over the years have formed a new style in leagues 1 and 2 and taken that forward to the Premier league. You can't really find a new style in the Championship.

I feel we are like Stoke and Birmingham now in that we are kind of stuck in the Championship. Too afraid to try anything different so bumbling along is safest option.

Relegation could reignite the club, could bring some youngsters in doing well and some fun promotion campaigns (let's be honest if things continue relegation is still coming) but the fear is we have another 20 years being unable to get out and could even slide again.

Derby and Sunderland fans may have felt the same but it always felt inevitable they'd he back stronger. Not sure can say the same for us.

Getting relegated from the championship would be an absolute disaster for us

Derby , Wednesday , Leeds and Sunderland are all big clubs with big support

You only have to look at the ground yesterday ......less than half full .....we are 11th

Our loyal fans are amazing

The problem is we simply don't have enough compared to the clubs that go down and have the numbers through the turnstiles to back the team

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Something ive regularly done is look at the tables and spot trams that have fallen through the divisions, ones that used to be in the PL bu aren't anymore etc. If anyone g its a time killer and also interesting

I agree with you

Barnsley , Bradford , Pompey , Charlton

I think it would be disastrous if we went down

[splott parker]

We’ve been involved in the two major cup finals and a couple of premier league visits in relatively recent years so it hasn’t all been a mundane slog. Stoke & Birmingham were mentioned earlier in the thread but I’ve got Preston & Bristol City as clubs who are just ‘stuck’ in the second tier rut.

[Father Dougal]

We’ve been involved in the two major cup finals and a couple of premier league visits in relatively recent years so it hasn’t all been a mundane slog. Stoke & Birmingham were mentioned earlier in the thread but I’ve got Preston & Bristol City as clubs who are just ‘stuck’ in the second tier rut.

Yep add Bristol and Preston for sure.

It's just interesting the clear top 4 are the 3 relegated sides and 1 straight from league 1. None who were in championship last season have been anywhere near top 4.

I suspect most will fancy pompey to do the same next season.

I suppose I just mean thinking of someone like OGS. I wouldn't want him here now as think it would remain a mess.

However I'd like to see him have a go with a league 1 club.

Everything is easier in league 1. Remember what shef wed fans said about mcguiness? Lol. Derby fans are saying ebou Adams is the complete box to box midfield player who can also score. Mark harris was impressing oxford fans and winning awards. Everything is just easier. Obvious to say but we forget that. Rhe standard isn't very good but easy to form a new style. While we have perhaps tried in the Championship results have been so bad its only lasted 5 mins and we've changed again.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

It's an interesting stat that, whenever we have dropped into the third tier, we've had better crowds when we've been going for promotion from the third tier than we did in being relegated.

I'd be interested to know why our crowds in the early 1970s halved from 1971 to 1973. It must have been more than just selling Toshack, more like going from a side that finished 3rd and just missed out on promotion, to a side avoiding relegation for a couple of seasons. The 70s and 80s were also a period of decline in attendances. Wolves went from an average of nearly 26k in 1980 to 4k in the third division 6 seasons later, yet had 14k in the same division 3 years later when they won it. I don't think it helped us that we were relegated at a time when the game across the UK was in such decline and our hooligan issues won't have encouraged others.

Our crowds have been more consistent over the last decade or so than probably at any other time in our history. We know we can virtually sell out our ground in the Premier League. Give us a season of decent football and challenging properly for the playoffs and we'll get well over 20k. There's not a shred of evidence to suggest our crowds would be decimated if we were relegated and had a good season the following year. In fact, most clubs get bigger crowds in the third tier if they're doing well than they did when they were relegated.

Were you at the game yesterday ?

Because the actual crowd was no more than 15 k

That tells everyone the sort of support we have and would get if we went down to league one

We are not a Derby, Pompey, Wednesday , Sunderland, Leeds etc

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Were you at the game yesterday ?

Because the actual crowd was no more than 15 k

That tells everyone the sort of support we have and would get if we went down to league one

We are not a Derby, Pompey, Wednesday , Sunderland, Leeds etc

Crowds include season ticket sales as we know. They haven't been great for months and I reckon the shocking football has contributed to that. After the Preston game I vowed not to return this season as I've been generally bored shitless when I've seen us at home. Could spend my money far better than wasting £100 on watching crap, by the time I spend out on trains, food, beer and tickets. As I've said before, meeting up with friends has almost become more important over the last few years while we've been rubbish.

You still won't have it that, if we were challenging for promotion from League 1, we'd get better crowds. It's happened to us in our history. It's happened to lots of other clubs as well. You continue believing what you want, I'll stick with what happens statistically and I'll be right.

[RichardM]

Were you at the game yesterday ?

Because the actual crowd was no more than 15 k

That tells everyone the sort of support we have and would get if we went down to league one

We are not a Derby, Pompey, Wednesday , Sunderland, Leeds etc

The crowds are low because the football is boring and we usually lose at home. If we were playing more attractive football and winning more often the crowds would go up whichever division we were in

[Eric the Half a Bee]

The crowds are low because the football is boring and we usually lose at home. If we were playing more attractive football and winning more often the crowds would go up whichever division we were in

Absolutely, but Sludge won't have any of that.

[CopenhagenBlue]

Absolutely, but Sludge won't have any of that.

The entertainment value has got so low, I can't even be bothered to watch when it's on tv (for free) in my living room anymore. I have no idea how anyone musters the energy to attend in person these days.

[olderblue]

Absolutely, but Sludge won't have any of that.

Scunthorpe, Chester, Hereford and Darlington are all in National League North

I remember going to Scunthorpes old ground
Old Show ground, before they moved to the “first new build ground “ Glanford park

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Scunthorpe, Chester, Hereford and Darlington are all in National League North

I remember going to Scunthorpes old ground
Old Show ground, before they moved to the “first new build ground “ Glanford park

Nice post, but not sure what it has to do with my reply.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

The crowds are low because the football is boring and we usually lose at home. If we were playing more attractive football and winning more often the crowds would go up whichever division we were in

I agree but not by as much as they should

We are not a well supported club

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Absolutely, but Sludge won't have any of that.

I think you are consistently deluded when it comes to our support

Every club known to man gets better support with success

But our starting point is much lower than clubs like Derby, Sunderland etc

We are simply not a big club even by championship standards and our hardcore loyal support is not big enough to sustain the club and its always been the problem

We have always been a selling club for that reason and when we do push the boat out .....eg dave Jones era ......our crowds were not big enough to sustain it

It's always been the same

South Wales will support a successful team but anything else and our support drops away alarmingly

I mean you can big the club up as much and as often as you like but many of us on here watching cardiff city play in front of crowds of less than 2500 not that long ago

For a city the size of Cardiff with its catchment areas that is absolutely shocking 🤯

[Rock_Flock_of_Five]

No chance

We would get far lower away support than we have in the Championship

Leeds , Swansea , Bristol City , Birmingham , Sunderland , West Brom , Coventry , Leicester , Ipswich have boosted our gates by at least 1500 on the occasions they have visited both our home attendance and away team numbers would drop

Cardiff City fans are incredibly fickle .....always have been

We like the big games .....no problem getting big crowds once in a while .....but a relegation to league one would see a big decline in gates , and the quality of football will be just one of the excuses not to attend

When we were in the basement last time we would get an occasional big crowd .....Burnley, Shrewsbury .....but the rest of the season would be poor

In fact sides like Plymouth had far better support than us at the same level , even Bristol Rovers

Bristol Rovers, not just better, but FAR better, you say?
Not in my lifetime supporting the City since the early seventies.