If Bulut Stays-Can He Succeed?

[The Lone Gunman]

No you can't compare, he's good but Ramsey is a class above but also injury prone we can't really expect too many minutes from wither next year and need quality attacking players and a Striker.

Ike Ugbo scored 4 goals in 20 appearances for Bulut's Cardiff City side.

He's scored 7 in 17 appearances for struggling Sheffield Wednesday.

Any theories on why that has happened?

[North Cardiff Blue]

Ike Ugbo scored 4 goals in 20 appearances for Bulut's Cardiff City side.

He's scored 7 in 17 appearances for struggling Sheffield Wednesday.

Any theories on why that has happened?

Maybe he had an unlucky streak followed by a lucky streak?

[The Lone Gunman]

Maybe he had an unlucky streak followed by a lucky streak?

Maybe.

Although I'm not suggesting Ugbo is a major factor in this, I noticed earlier that since he's joined them Wednesday have won by two or more goals on five separate occasions and have scored three goals in a game twice, and that's despite being in the relegation zone almost constantly during that time. Erol Bulut's Cardiff City haven't managed to do either of those things since October.

[PontBlue]

No you can't compare, he's good but Ramsey is a class above but also injury prone we can't really expect too many minutes from wither next year and need quality attacking players and a Striker.

How do you propose we sign those whilst complying with ffp?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

How do you propose we sign those whilst complying with ffp?

How does he propose signing those regardless of ffp?

[North Cardiff Blue]

How do you propose we sign those whilst complying with ffp?

He'll probably be allowed a better budget than the next Trollope, he's shown he can move us up the table nine places plus, and will be able to explain the next stage and what is needed to Dalman and Tan, he's an experienced Manager and knows what he is doing.

It's up to the board to manage the money, move on expensive unused players and carefully use the loan market, there are some fantastic Premier League youngsters. I would also expect some Turkish, Greek, and German scouting and players, to try and find some value.

[Undercoverinwurzelland]

Unless he changes his formation and tactics he'll be gone by Christmas, regardless of who he signs.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Unless he changes his formation and tactics he'll be gone by Christmas, regardless of who he signs.

I think he will be gone next week, if not he will improve us, but time will tell

[Undercoverinwurzelland]

Bulut on formations last June:
"My style, my favourite, is 4-2-3-1, sometimes 4-3-3," he said. "We can speak a lot about systems, 2-5-2, 4-4-2.

"But in the game, all my players should know what we have to do within the game. Sometimes it's three at the back in a different system. At the start, it could look like a 4-2-3-1 but it could change, depending on what we have to do."

Needs to change it (probably not to 2-5-2!)

[Undercoverinwurzelland]

He also said on transfers:

"We need in every department. Offensive department, Cardiff last season scored only 41 goals. Second bottom scorers.

"In attacking, we have to invest, in my opinion. Also in the midfield. Attacking is not only wingers, strikers, No.10. This will start from the back, from the goalkeeper."

[Keyser Soze]

Ike Ugbo scored 4 goals in 20 appearances for Bulut's Cardiff City side.

He's scored 7 in 17 appearances for struggling Sheffield Wednesday.

Any theories on why that has happened?

Style I suspect. I don’t know Sheff Weds style. But he isn’t a back-to-goal striker that thrives off slow build up.

If Wednesday play with a quick counter attack and ball through the middle, or wingers who get wide early, beat their man and whip it in quick, or target man flicking it on behind in a 4-4-2, 3-5-2 with Ugbo running behind, then Ugbo would thrive.

Bulut’s attacks tend to be big set pieces, or the ball out wide (rarely put behind down the middle quickly). In a 4-5-1 no second runner behind with legs with flick ons so we rarely see that. So Ugbo would struggle.

So I am guessing style.

[Keyser Soze]

More on Bulut’s issues. This is my take. I think Bulut came in, was given a budget, and is a systems man. He has a system he knows well and is good at.

But we have built a 4-5-1 style without the players to support that style. His system looks to replicate AC Milan around 1990s with Van Basten in it. Well that is what he is trying to accomplish at this much lower level, without it being as effective as he wants. But that style requires one or more of following:

1. Wide men who can beat players and deliver quality, or full backs overlapping to deliver and wide men cutting inside to hunt for goals or creativity

2. Central midfielders who are mobile and can defend as well create chances and support the single attacker with goals

So far we have not the required success on .1 as service is slow or barely existent. And on .2, our central midfielders have not been successful enough in goal contribution nor defensive shit outs. Nor are they mobile enough in my view to support such a system.

If above cannot be done, then a defence as a nun’s proverbial is required, and you base your entire tactics on a compact 5 man midfield that restricts the space, and goals come in the form of set pieces, quick counters or the central striker being all-encompassing all-rounder: in the sense that he will be big and hard enough to play back to goal, clever enough in skill to bring in other players, and fast enough to take a quick ball centrally in between or either side of the full back. 1-0s, 2-0s being the scores you look for. Containment, restrict, nick a goal.

Where it failed for us? I’d say a combination of…

1. Midfield not mobile enough to be equally effective in defence and attack: vital for this system

2. Wide men not fast and creative enough

3. Strikers don’t fit the system. Whereas Milan had Weah, Meite had none of it. Diedhou is a fox in the box man that needs service. Etete is good on crosses and set pieces but no pace or skill, so he loses the ball and can’t get through.

Kieffer Moore could have been the man to make the difference for us. He can hold it up, flick it on, race through and make set pieces effective. He is an all rounder. Had we had decent wingers, I also think Karlan Grant would have been our most effective 9. He can hold it up, he can race in behind for a quick ball, he can get on the end of wingers crosses, and his goal rate at WBA suggest he can score 1 in 2, but at least 1 in 3 at this level. Wasted on the wing.

So can Bulut succeed?

It all rests in budget, player availability and agent contacts. If he can solve above issues then we could build and hit the playoffs next year. But this system is highly technical and tactical - the right players HAVE to fit in.

If not, get the players that are good and available, and change the system to suit their strengths. But for that to happen, he needs to have the knowledge to coach the new system well. If he is hell bent on this system and cannot get the players, we can expect another average season in my view.

[J R Hartley]

More on Bulut’s issues. This is my take. I think Bulut came in, was given a budget, and is a systems man. He has a system he knows well and is good at.

But we have built a 4-5-1 style without the players to support that style. His system looks to replicate AC Milan around 1990s with Van Basten in it. Well that is what he is trying to accomplish at this much lower level, without it being as effective as he wants. But that style requires one or more of following:

1. Wide men who can beat players and deliver quality, or full backs overlapping to deliver and wide men cutting inside to hunt for goals or creativity

2. Central midfielders who are mobile and can defend as well create chances and support the single attacker with goals

So far we have not the required success on .1 as service is slow or barely existent. And on .2, our central midfielders have not been successful enough in goal contribution nor defensive shit outs. Nor are they mobile enough in my view to support such a system.

If above cannot be done, then a defence as a nun’s proverbial is required, and you base your entire tactics on a compact 5 man midfield that restricts the space, and goals come in the form of set pieces, quick counters or the central striker being all-encompassing all-rounder: in the sense that he will be big and hard enough to play back to goal, clever enough in skill to bring in other players, and fast enough to take a quick ball centrally in between or either side of the full back. 1-0s, 2-0s being the scores you look for. Containment, restrict, nick a goal.

Where it failed for us? I’d say a combination of…

1. Midfield not mobile enough to be equally effective in defence and attack: vital for this system

2. Wide men not fast and creative enough

3. Strikers don’t fit the system. Whereas Milan had Weah, Meite had none of it. Diedhou is a fox in the box man that needs service. Etete is good on crosses and set pieces but no pace or skill, so he loses the ball and can’t get through.

Kieffer Moore could have been the man to make the difference for us. He can hold it up, flick it on, race through and make set pieces effective. He is an all rounder. Had we had decent wingers, I also think Karlan Grant would have been our most effective 9. He can hold it up, he can race in behind for a quick ball, he can get on the end of wingers crosses, and his goal rate at WBA suggest he can score 1 in 2, but at least 1 in 3 at this level. Wasted on the wing.

So can Bulut succeed?

It all rests in budget, player availability and agent contacts. If he can solve above issues then we could build and hit the playoffs next year. But this system is highly technical and tactical - the right players HAVE to fit in.

If not, get the players that are good and available, and change the system to suit their strengths. But for that to happen, he needs to have the knowledge to coach the new system well. If he is hell bent on this system and cannot get the players, we can expect another average season in my view.

Lost me at Milan around the 1990s.

[MOZZER2]

Lost me at Milan around the 1990s.

heard Merthyr played like that on Saturday. A thumping 7-1 win just missing out in the play offs too i see

you think they will go one step further next season ?

[J R Hartley]

heard Merthyr played like that on Saturday. A thumping 7-1 win just missing out in the play offs too i see

you think they will go one step further next season ?

I doubt it, they should have done it this year, was in the play offs or autos all season then dropped out with 1 game to go. Very inconsistent 2nd half of the season but they are a young side and a likeable bunch as a team so cant be too critical.

I think this is their level to be honest and theres talk their star man, Ricardo Rees, will be off to a club higher up the pyramid in the summer.

Jack Evans - Joe Rodons best mate and personal trainer - leaving for a club further north to be closer to Rodon didnt help. Lovely player he was.

[Keyser Soze]

Lost me at Milan around the 1990s.

I am not surprised grandpa. I think you have been lost full stop, since the 1990s. Go and finish your jigsaw.

[North Cardiff Blue]

I am not surprised grandpa. I think you have been lost full stop, since the 1990s. Go and finish your jigsaw.

Savage

[Dembe]

More on Bulut’s issues. This is my take. I think Bulut came in, was given a budget, and is a systems man. He has a system he knows well and is good at.

But we have built a 4-5-1 style without the players to support that style. His system looks to replicate AC Milan around 1990s with Van Basten in it. Well that is what he is trying to accomplish at this much lower level, without it being as effective as he wants. But that style requires one or more of following:

1. Wide men who can beat players and deliver quality, or full backs overlapping to deliver and wide men cutting inside to hunt for goals or creativity

2. Central midfielders who are mobile and can defend as well create chances and support the single attacker with goals

So far we have not the required success on .1 as service is slow or barely existent. And on .2, our central midfielders have not been successful enough in goal contribution nor defensive shit outs. Nor are they mobile enough in my view to support such a system.

If above cannot be done, then a defence as a nun’s proverbial is required, and you base your entire tactics on a compact 5 man midfield that restricts the space, and goals come in the form of set pieces, quick counters or the central striker being all-encompassing all-rounder: in the sense that he will be big and hard enough to play back to goal, clever enough in skill to bring in other players, and fast enough to take a quick ball centrally in between or either side of the full back. 1-0s, 2-0s being the scores you look for. Containment, restrict, nick a goal.

Where it failed for us? I’d say a combination of…

1. Midfield not mobile enough to be equally effective in defence and attack: vital for this system

2. Wide men not fast and creative enough

3. Strikers don’t fit the system. Whereas Milan had Weah, Meite had none of it. Diedhou is a fox in the box man that needs service. Etete is good on crosses and set pieces but no pace or skill, so he loses the ball and can’t get through.

Kieffer Moore could have been the man to make the difference for us. He can hold it up, flick it on, race through and make set pieces effective. He is an all rounder. Had we had decent wingers, I also think Karlan Grant would have been our most effective 9. He can hold it up, he can race in behind for a quick ball, he can get on the end of wingers crosses, and his goal rate at WBA suggest he can score 1 in 2, but at least 1 in 3 at this level. Wasted on the wing.

So can Bulut succeed?

It all rests in budget, player availability and agent contacts. If he can solve above issues then we could build and hit the playoffs next year. But this system is highly technical and tactical - the right players HAVE to fit in.

If not, get the players that are good and available, and change the system to suit their strengths. But for that to happen, he needs to have the knowledge to coach the new system well. If he is hell bent on this system and cannot get the players, we can expect another average season in my view.

So you are saying he knows his system, and brought in Turnbull and Diedhou despite them not fitting his system?

Fantastic.

[splott parker]

More on Bulut’s issues. This is my take. I think Bulut came in, was given a budget, and is a systems man. He has a system he knows well and is good at.

But we have built a 4-5-1 style without the players to support that style. His system looks to replicate AC Milan around 1990s with Van Basten in it. Well that is what he is trying to accomplish at this much lower level, without it being as effective as he wants. But that style requires one or more of following:

1. Wide men who can beat players and deliver quality, or full backs overlapping to deliver and wide men cutting inside to hunt for goals or creativity

2. Central midfielders who are mobile and can defend as well create chances and support the single attacker with goals

So far we have not the required success on .1 as service is slow or barely existent. And on .2, our central midfielders have not been successful enough in goal contribution nor defensive shit outs. Nor are they mobile enough in my view to support such a system.

If above cannot be done, then a defence as a nun’s proverbial is required, and you base your entire tactics on a compact 5 man midfield that restricts the space, and goals come in the form of set pieces, quick counters or the central striker being all-encompassing all-rounder: in the sense that he will be big and hard enough to play back to goal, clever enough in skill to bring in other players, and fast enough to take a quick ball centrally in between or either side of the full back. 1-0s, 2-0s being the scores you look for. Containment, restrict, nick a goal.

Where it failed for us? I’d say a combination of…

1. Midfield not mobile enough to be equally effective in defence and attack: vital for this system

2. Wide men not fast and creative enough

3. Strikers don’t fit the system. Whereas Milan had Weah, Meite had none of it. Diedhou is a fox in the box man that needs service. Etete is good on crosses and set pieces but no pace or skill, so he loses the ball and can’t get through.

Kieffer Moore could have been the man to make the difference for us. He can hold it up, flick it on, race through and make set pieces effective. He is an all rounder. Had we had decent wingers, I also think Karlan Grant would have been our most effective 9. He can hold it up, he can race in behind for a quick ball, he can get on the end of wingers crosses, and his goal rate at WBA suggest he can score 1 in 2, but at least 1 in 3 at this level. Wasted on the wing.

So can Bulut succeed?

It all rests in budget, player availability and agent contacts. If he can solve above issues then we could build and hit the playoffs next year. But this system is highly technical and tactical - the right players HAVE to fit in.

If not, get the players that are good and available, and change the system to suit their strengths. But for that to happen, he needs to have the knowledge to coach the new system well. If he is hell bent on this system and cannot get the players, we can expect another average season in my view.

Ah, football….the beautiful game that billions fell in love with because of it’s simplicity eh!

[Butterwick Blue]

So you are saying he knows his system, and brought in Turnbull and Diedhou despite them not fitting his system?

Fantastic.

Is there anyone as contradictory as you on this forum? You constantly bang on about letting people having an opinion, yet jump on anyone who’s opinion differs from yours. Make your mind up ffs.

[Dembe]

Is there anyone as contradictory as you on this forum? You constantly bang on about letting people having an opinion, yet jump on anyone who’s opinion differs from yours. Make your mind up ffs.

Where did I not allow him to have an opinion? If you know me so well, you'd realise I was having a dig at Bulut for having a system and bringing in players that don't suit it. I sarcastically thought it was fantastic.

Glad I could help.

[Keyser Soze]

Where did I not allow him to have an opinion? If you know me so well, you'd realise I was having a dig at Bulut for having a system and bringing in players that don't suit it. I sarcastically thought it was fantastic.

Glad I could help.

I didn’t read it as a dig actually. I think the problem is that Bulut maybe wanted 4-3-3 up his sleeve, and Diedhou could work with inverted wingers playing 1-2’s off him, but I think the combination of personnel didn’t click.

I think Diedhou is a superb fox-in-the-box and a good technician. But you see his body language and work rate drop when he doesn’t see enough ball. I genuinely believe he is one of those players where if the team gets plenty of supply into the box he would hit 20 goals a season. A cheap version of Robbie Fowler. And similarly if no supply is provided he drops out of the game. Probably a little mental weakness in there.

[llan bluebird]

I didn’t read it as a dig actually. I think the problem is that Bulut maybe wanted 4-3-3 up his sleeve, and Diedhou could work with inverted wingers playing 1-2’s off him, but I think the combination of personnel didn’t click.

I think Diedhou is a superb fox-in-the-box and a good technician. But you see his body language and work rate drop when he doesn’t see enough ball. I genuinely believe he is one of those players where if the team gets plenty of supply into the box he would hit 20 goals a season. A cheap version of Robbie Fowler. And similarly if no supply is provided he drops out of the game. Probably a little mental weakness in there.

Coupled with father time has well and truely caught up with him. The Brizzle version maybe, but never now.

[Henry Hill]

I didn’t read it as a dig actually. I think the problem is that Bulut maybe wanted 4-3-3 up his sleeve, and Diedhou could work with inverted wingers playing 1-2’s off him, but I think the combination of personnel didn’t click.

I think Diedhou is a superb fox-in-the-box and a good technician. But you see his body language and work rate drop when he doesn’t see enough ball. I genuinely believe he is one of those players where if the team gets plenty of supply into the box he would hit 20 goals a season. A cheap version of Robbie Fowler. And similarly if no supply is provided he drops out of the game. Probably a little mental weakness in there.

Oh do **** off with your psuedo football intellect act.

He’s nearly 32, at the arse end of his career and has hit 20+ goals in a season once - 8 years ago French Ligue 2.

His next best is 14. He’s more like Arthur Fowler than Robbie Fowler. Hope he’s not collecting the kitty money for the end of season tour.

[Dembe]

I didn’t read it as a dig actually. I think the problem is that Bulut maybe wanted 4-3-3 up his sleeve, and Diedhou could work with inverted wingers playing 1-2’s off him, but I think the combination of personnel didn’t click.

I think Diedhou is a superb fox-in-the-box and a good technician. But you see his body language and work rate drop when he doesn’t see enough ball. I genuinely believe he is one of those players where if the team gets plenty of supply into the box he would hit 20 goals a season. A cheap version of Robbie Fowler. And similarly if no supply is provided he drops out of the game. Probably a little mental weakness in there.

It wasn't a dig at you anyway just some fella having a bad morning wanting to have a pop for some reason