The right wing on this board..

[the other bob wilson]

are moving closer and closer to fascism.

The board used to be balanced politically, but I guess as the country has moved further and further to the right over the last 30 years, this board is just a reflection of that societal shift.

30 years ago there would have been outrage at some of the topics that have been raised on here over the last few weeks, but nowadays apart from apathy, there is just an overwhelming acceptance of political situations as if they are normal.

Today we learn that despite 4,000 plus civilians in Yemen being bombed to death over the last 18 months by Saudi Arabia, the British government has blocked any attempt to hold a UN inquiry into what is going on in Yemen. Why? Because we are one of the main arms suppliers to the Saudi government and hence we are responsible for the bombs that are being dropped there.

People have become dumbed down by corporate mainstream media which in the main just acts as a stenographer for government policies and seem perfectly relaxed about being experts on consumerism, buying things on eBay, while being relatively naive and somewhat disconnected about politics.

A nation which used to be so passionate about politics, are still passionate, only now it's about Primark.

This board was certainly left leaning until a few months ago and then you came back and started influencing things .

[Splott David]

This board was certainly left leaning until a few months ago and then you came back and started influencing things .

Do you think that it was something that I said?

[Sir Sidney Ruff-Diamond]

You would be one of the few wto say this. Most say this board is extremely left.

I agree.

SD is right about the apathy, though. I can't believe the change in mindset over the years. You are seen as being a weirdo if you dare to even question the official version of things. What used to be called 'critical thinking' (which used to be encouraged) is now seen as 'loony conspiracy theories'.

[LordKenwyne]

I agree.

SD is right about the apathy, though. I can't believe the change in mindset over the years. You are seen as being a weirdo if you dare to even question the official version of things. What used to be called 'critical thinking' (which used to be encouraged) is now seen as 'loony conspiracy theories'.

Not really.

If they have the right to question every story then I can question them.

I've called no one a weirdo for simply questioning.

Conscious thought is one of the most important forms of intelligence. Some people through life not even knowing of it. Are they worse for it? Maybe not, life is short.

Having an agenda and trying to force it upon every story is not conscious thought in my eyes.

[Sir Sidney Ruff-Diamond]

Not really.

If they have the right to question every story then I can question them.

I've called no one a weirdo for simply questioning.

Conscious thought is one of the most important forms of intelligence. Some people through life not even knowing of it. Are they worse for it? Maybe not, life is short.

Having an agenda and trying to force it upon every story is not conscious thought in my eyes.

That's because you've been brainwashed.


(Kidding!!)


I agree; some people certainly do try and channel everything through their agenda-driven monologue. I suppose it's a hobby for some.

[Barry Dragon]

That's because you've been brainwashed.


(Kidding!!)


I agree; some people certainly do try and channel everything through their agenda-driven monologue. I suppose it's a hobby for some.

More than a hobby. Its an obsession when you appear to donate every minute of your life to it.

[Mrs Steve R]

More than a hobby. Its an obsession when you appear to donate every minute of your life to it.

I bet you thought I was bad until David came back

[Barry Dragon]

I bet you thought I was bad until David came back

I wish for your crazy posts now. Though you seem to have come gone through it and come out of the other side.

[Mrs Steve R]

I wish for your crazy posts now. Though you seem to have come gone through it and come out of the other side.

I wouldn't say I've come out of the other side but I do see things a bit differently than I did before.

[David Vincent]

I beg to differ with you on the issue of fascism David. Revisionist Zionism was based purely on fascist principles and values. The Revisionists had one base in fascist Italy hosted by Mussolini and 40 training bases in Nazi Germany between 1933-40. Revisionist Zionism has dominated Israeli politics since the early 1970's continuously, only these days it's name is Likud.

If you research it you will find that Netanyahu's father was the right-hand man for Jabotinsky, who was the founder of Revisionist Zionism, so there is a political timeline continuum right the way through from the 1930's until the present day.

I didn't know anything about Jabotinsky until I read your comment. I don't know if you are calling him a fascist, but from what I have read he seems to have believed in democracy. His idea that Europe in the 1930s was not safe for Jews and that they should all leave Europe within ten years was probably right. He wasn't an anti-British terrorist like Begin. In fact, he seems to have been a loyal fighter for Britain in The First World War.

The belief that you can just move your coreligionists to another country and eventually take it over seems wrong but with open borders this is going to happen in many parts of the world. It has happened in Palestine and people are complaining, but will the same people complain when it happens in other countries? A few years ago I can remember the Fijians protesting about their country being run by Indian immigrants and the Fijians were dismissed as racists. Coincidentally I think Indian immigration into Fiji started around the same time as European Jewish immigration into Palestine - c1870.

[Splott David]

I didn't know anything about Jabotinsky until I read your comment. I don't know if you are calling him a fascist, but from what I have read he seems to have believed in democracy. His idea that Europe in the 1930s was not safe for Jews and that they should all leave Europe within ten years was probably right. He wasn't an anti-British terrorist like Begin. In fact, he seems to have been a loyal fighter for Britain in The First World War.

The belief that you can just move your coreligionists to another country and eventually take it over seems wrong but with open borders this is going to happen in many parts of the world. It has happened in Palestine and people are complaining, but will the same people complain when it happens in other countries? A few years ago I can remember the Fijians protesting about their country being run by Indian immigrants and the Fijians were dismissed as racists. Coincidentally I think Indian immigration into Fiji started around the same time as European Jewish immigration into Palestine - c1870.

Jabotinsky set up a military training base in Mussolini's Italy in the 1930's. He is the father and founder of Revisionst Zionism, the outline beliefs of which can be found in his book, The Iron Wall.

http://www.marxists.de/middleast/ironwall/ironwall.htm

[David Vincent]

Jabotinsky set up a military training base in Mussolini's Italy in the 1930's. He is the father and founder of Revisionst Zionism, the outline beliefs of which can be found in his book, The Iron Wall.

http://www.marxists.de/middleast/ironwall/ironwall.htm

You can only admire the honesty and far-sightedness of the author of that document. It reminds me of a developer neighbour who introduced himself by saying "You are not going to like what I am going to tell you, but it doesn't matter because it's going to happen anyway".

Jabotinsky was honest in the sense that he said it was no good trying to lie about Zionist intentions to the Arabs or to bribe them. I also think his analogy with the native Indians in America was also apt. I've often thought it was a similar thing myself. But I don't understand the bit where he says "Zionism is moral and just".

I had a look at the demographics of Palestine in the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica and the figure for that date was a total population of 650,000 with two thirds being Muslim and the other third split between Jews and Christians. I would guess the split was about even. There are now over 6 million Jews in Palestine. They had a plan, they worked together and they got what they wanted. Jabotinsky's "iron wall" is now a real iron wall or fence.

Jabotinsky's claim that "Every indigenous people will resist alien settlers as long as they see any hope of ridding themselves of the danger of foreign settlement" no longer seems to be true.

[Splott David]

You can only admire the honesty and far-sightedness of the author of that document. It reminds me of a developer neighbour who introduced himself by saying "You are not going to like what I am going to tell you, but it doesn't matter because it's going to happen anyway".

Jabotinsky was honest in the sense that he said it was no good trying to lie about Zionist intentions to the Arabs or to bribe them. I also think his analogy with the native Indians in America was also apt. I've often thought it was a similar thing myself. But I don't understand the bit where he says "Zionism is moral and just".

I had a look at the demographics of Palestine in the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica and the figure for that date was a total population of 650,000 with two thirds being Muslim and the other third split between Jews and Christians. I would guess the split was about even. There are now over 6 million Jews in Palestine. They had a plan, they worked together and they got what they wanted. Jabotinsky's "iron wall" is now a real iron wall or fence.

Jabotinsky's claim that "Every indigenous people will resist alien settlers as long as they see any hope of ridding themselves of the danger of foreign settlement" no longer seems to be true.

Unfortunately David I think you will find that it is true. It may no longer get the coverage on Western corporate media that it did 30 years ago, but then that is as a result of a deliberate policy by the media.

Here's a series of articles on Gaza written by Prof Norman Finkelstein following the 51 day invasion by Israeli forces.



https://www.byline.com/project/13/article/149

https://www.byline.com/project/13/article/163

https://www.byline.com/project/13/article/170

https://www.byline.com/project/13/article/192

https://www.byline.com/project/13/article/201

https://www.byline.com/project/13/article/205

[Taunton Blue Genie]

SD. How does the 'deliberate policy' by the 'Western media' supposedly work? Exactly what mechanism ensures a stranglehold on the thousands of news outlets?

[Splott David]

SD. How does the 'deliberate policy' by the 'Western media' supposedly work? Exactly what mechanism ensures a stranglehold on the thousands of news outlets?

It's one of the best questions that I have seen on here TBG.

The BBC bias has been well documented and corporate media marches almost in lockstep with whatever government policy is when it comes to geo-political events and situations. Hence the growth in alternative media outlets where investigative journalism has largely moved to.

As regards BBC bias this is one example: http://www.spinwatch.org/index.php/b...el-commentator

Another would be the BBC's Jane Corbin documentary, Death in the Med which has been comprehensively debunked.

At the time of the documentary Corbin's husband was President of the Conservative Friends of Israel (CIF)

https://kenokeefe.wordpress.com/2010...s-jane-corbin/

https://pulsemedia.org/2010/08/26/th...-a-journalist/

https://hotterthanapileofcurry.wordp...nds-of-israel/

[Taunton Blue Genie]

It's one of the best questions that I have seen on here TBG.

The BBC bias has been well documented and corporate media marches almost in lockstep with whatever government policy is when it comes to geo-political events and situations. Hence the growth in alternative media outlets where investigative journalism has largely moved to.

As regards BBC bias this is one example: http://www.spinwatch.org/index.php/b...el-commentator

Another would be the BBC's Jane Corbin documentary, Death in the Med which has been comprehensively debunked.

At the time of the documentary Corbin's husband was President of the Conservative Friends of Israel (CIF)

https://kenokeefe.wordpress.com/2010...s-jane-corbin/

https://pulsemedia.org/2010/08/26/th...-a-journalist/

https://hotterthanapileofcurry.wordp...nds-of-israel/

That hardly covers thousands of media outlets.

[Mrs Steve R]

That hardly covers thousands of media outlets.

Something more like this?
http://www.businessinsider.com/these...ca-2012-6?IR=T

[Wales-Bales]

SD. How does the 'deliberate policy' by the 'Western media' supposedly work? Exactly what mechanism ensures a stranglehold on the thousands of news outlets?

Do you trust the Germans?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NftfeAyYEg

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Something more like this?
http://www.businessinsider.com/these...ca-2012-6?IR=T

We all know about the US media.

[TruBlue]

Do you trust the Germans?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NftfeAyYEg

Shouldn't that be Russians?

[David Vincent]

Unfortunately David I think you will find that it is true. It may no longer get the coverage on Western corporate media that it did 30 years ago, but then that is as a result of a deliberate policy by the media.

Here's a series of articles on Gaza written by Prof Norman Finkelstein following the 51 day invasion by Israeli forces.



https://www.byline.com/project/13/article/149

https://www.byline.com/project/13/article/163

https://www.byline.com/project/13/article/170

https://www.byline.com/project/13/article/192

https://www.byline.com/project/13/article/201

https://www.byline.com/project/13/article/205

Thank you for the links but that wasn't quite what I was thinking about.

You have obviously fallen for the left wing / right wing false dichotomy and you have put yourself in the left wing box. This means your views on all political topics will be predictable. I am able to predict your view on the Islamic settlement of Europe and you have already stated your views on the Jewish settlement of Palestine. Do you think there is any inconsistency in these two views? You are for one and against the other? Why?

Can you think of any cases in which settlers have become the majority population and they have not made the indigenous population second class citizens? Perhaps you believe this is a uniquely Zionist thing. But the American settlers, for example, weren't Zionists.

[Splott David]

That hardly covers thousands of media outlets.

First of all there are not thousands of media outlets. Six major corporations control virtually all broadcasting in the USA. The views of those corporations will be the ones that the various news editors will adhere to. The same applies in the UK. Look how ownership of media is controlled by a handful of companies and individuals. With Rupert Murdoch, he controlled 60 different national newspapers across the world, when it came to the invasion of Iraq all of the 60 editors followed the same line precisely. None of them took a different editorial view or altered the message approved by him by one line.

[Mrs Steve R]

We all know about the US media.

Pardon me for trying to help.

Thank you for the links but that wasn't quite what I was thinking about.

You have obviously fallen for the left wing / right wing false dichotomy and you have put yourself in the left wing box. This means your views on all political topics will be predictable. I am able to predict your view on the Islamic settlement of Europe and you have already stated your views on the Jewish settlement of Palestine. Do you think there is any inconsistency in these two views? You are for one and against the other? Why?

Can you think of any cases in which settlers have become the majority population and they have not made the indigenous population second class citizens? Perhaps you believe this is a uniquely Zionist thing. But the American settlers, for example, weren't Zionists.

Looks like it's just me and you in the middle of the road then I was told last night that I need to come down off my fence, but I find the view is better from up here.

[Splott David]

Thank you for the links but that wasn't quite what I was thinking about.

You have obviously fallen for the left wing / right wing false dichotomy and you have put yourself in the left wing box. This means your views on all political topics will be predictable. I am able to predict your view on the Islamic settlement of Europe and you have already stated your views on the Jewish settlement of Palestine. Do you think there is any inconsistency in these two views? You are for one and against the other? Why?

Can you think of any cases in which settlers have become the majority population and they have not made the indigenous population second class citizens? Perhaps you believe this is a uniquely Zionist thing. But the American settlers, for example, weren't Zionists.

David I don't engage in whataboutery and my views are diverse according to the issue and the politics of that issue. I've been anti-Zionist and pro-Palestine and the Palestinian people since 1967. I'm not going to go in to projections or crystal ball gazing into hypothetical views which I have not expressed. There was not as you stated a 'settlement' but a very clear plan to steal the land from the indigenous population. This foolish political notion was stillborn and belonged to an earlier century of colonialism, it remains as one of the fundamental reasons for the current situation throughout the Middle East.

[life on mars]

on this board , even if your a centralist , your compartmentalised as right winger now .