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Thread: How the manufactured anti-Semitism crisis is destroying UK Labour

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  1. #18

    Re: How the manufactured anti-Semitism crisis is destroying UK Labour

    Quote Originally Posted by Splott David View Post
    Identity politics is all well and good where the identity is clear cut and unambiguous, for example, there's no such thing as a black religion in the same way there is no such thing as a Muslim political viewpoint. In a similar way there is no such thing as all football fans are hooligans, some are, some were, most were not. But that doesn't stop some fans from self-identifying and seeing themselves as part of a united group. The notion of a group is only a group when there's a football match to watch, outside of that they are all just a bunch of individuals. The notion of group or tribe is illusory, some might say transitory it doesn't actually exist accept on certain occasions when the individuals meet for a common cause or pastime.

    You would no more think it right for someone to identify with group football violence as a way of giving some structure and meaning to their empty lives, than you would to a group of individuals who commit murder out of a warped sense of belonging to a self-declared elite group of thugs.

    Muslims are bonded with other Muslims through religion not through politics. People who are black may be bonded with other black people through religion or even politics, but definitely through a shared culture and ethnicity which is visually obvious.

    Now lets get to the meat, the Israeli first crowd self-identify on two counts, one of being Jewish, which in and of itself is just a way of self-identification as in reality anyone can become Jewish. The second count is that of being a Zionist. It's no different to those people who self-identified as being a Nazi or of belonging to a group of Nazis. (In reality the word Nazi is a pejorative term which was coined by a German journalist who was Jewish) Zionism is a secular political ideology which assumes exceptionalism as being entirely natural and that exceptionalism expresses itself in the notion that Jews are a race and the sanctity of their lives is more precious/special than all other human lives. In other words the bedrock in the belief of Zionism is that it is based on racial supremacy and apartheid. Like Nazism did in the 30's and 40's, Zionism co-opts mythical legends to flesh out a fabricated history and although completely secular, it borrows from religion as way of increasing its appeal to a wider section of Jews.

    Without enemies Zionism would have no reason to exist, Zionism was founded on the notion that enemies were everywhere, they would never be a time when there weren't any enemies and those perceptions had to be maintained as if they were the very lifeblood which kept Zionism alive. Now we come on to anti-Semitism, is there any? It depends on what a person means by anti-Semitism. One definition for an "anti-Semite" is as follows: Someone who knows how powerful the Jews are, who objects to their having such power and objects to the ends that this power is being used. Another definition would be an "anti-Semite" is a person who certain Jews hate. In other words the term is practically meaningless in its original definition and has now become weaponised as a means of attacking anyone who the pro-Israeli pro-Zionist lobby perceives as any form of threat.

    So in conclusion there is no such thing as a Jewish race, Jews self-identify as part of whichever grouping they wish to be associated with. But that doesn't stop certain sections of Jews as using race as a weapon, or a shield, depending on the prevailing circumstances that exist at the time.

    The pro-Israeli crowd see any questioning of Israel as being anti-Semitic. If you support Palestinians you're questioning Israel's rights to exist, which of course in reality means that Palestinians don't have a right to exist. Being Palestinian means they have given up any consideration to have rights, by virtue of the fact that they are not Jews. So is it wrong for a British MP to be openly racist? To believe that other human beings are somehow lesser because they are not Jews, to support apartheid based on the perception that equality of human values does not exist, outside of being Jewish? I have no problem with Ruth Smeeth standing as a member of the Knesset in Tel Aviv and passionately supporting Israel's interests, I do however object to her doing so while masquerading as a British member of parliament, supposedly committed to British values and British interests.
    Thank you for that long reply. As I have said before I like your posts and I usually agree with all the facts you have presented in your posts. I just disagree with your interpretation of the facts.

    The above post contains so many contradictions that I can only assume that the two hemispheres of your brain no longer communicate with one another. Perhaps the link between them was severed by a pole or a brick in one of those 1970s terrace fights. You say that Zionism is "completely secular" but it borrows from religion. You say that Zionism is based on "racial superiority and apartheid" but you also say anyone can become a Jew. If anyone can become a Jew then Zionism is nothing like Nazism because the Nazis did not accept non-Aryans.

    If Jews are not a race how do you explain how some diseases are much more common in Jews than in other groups? Why is there a Jewish look? Why are Jews so outstanding academically? Why do so many Jews think they are a race? Are they deluded?

    You say identity politics are ok for blacks because they are bonded by ethnicity. Why isn't ok for Jews? They also regard themselves as bonded by ethnicity. If identity politics are ok what about all those people who just see themselves as individuals and not as a member of a group. Don't you think they will find themselves at a disadvantage when competing with members of groups who are using identity politics ?

    Like most other ethnic and religious groups Zionists are using identity politics. The only difference is that Zionists are much better at it than any other group. They are loyal, clever and ruthless. I think you should be condemning identity politics in general rather than just one particular instance of it.
    Last edited by David Vincent; 07-10-16 at 22:39.

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