Arm our officers

[Colonel Cærdiffi]

as a a retired met officer who was an AFO for 15 years my articulate thoughts are that the police don't need or want to be fully armed, what they need is enough armed response to deal with situations that arise, not a problem in London but obviously an issue in other smaller forces, carrying a weapon is a huge responsibility with the onus on you to justify your actions taken in the split second of an incident perhaps to a jury months later when what you did can be minutely examined, not everyone wants that responsibility, we've seen previous threads on this board with people asking why didn't they shoot to wound sums up the predicament nicely

Now that's a great contribution, nicely said.

[Bluebird since 1948]

A big no from me, I was in France during the Euros and I was a uncomfortable with seeing the Army on the streets as well as heavily armed police, I know it was a necessity but I would hate for that to become the norm here.

Besides why is there such a knee jerk reaction to yesterdays events? There was little that could have been done to stop what happened. I thought our emergency services did a terrific job of minimising what could have been a far worse situation. It's tragic that people died but the death toll was low compared to similar attacks in Berlin and especially Nice. I am not sure if arming the police will have stopped what happened yesterday.

[Packerman]

Pah, people coming on here who know what they're talking abou and talking sense based on their experience??? Away with you man.

Seriously though, respect to you sir.

In a side note, when I was at uni we played rugby against the met, hard as fookin nails the lot of them. I also used to play for Orpington and we had a couple of officers from the met who were bonkers

everybody wanted to get stuck into the met rugby team, so tended to get their retaliation in first

[Colonel Cærdiffi]

really ? ? ? did I ? ? ?

I like to think our police force is slightly better than the US



really ? ? ?



because its easy to use the US and its armed officers are a example to win the " we do not want to arm our police "

argument

I think that our police force is slightly better trained and behaved that the US

then you had nothing to say ? ? ?

I can't even tell what you're talking about or who you're quoting here. I really am giving up on talking to you now.

And as a bit of advice, the extra question marks don't help your argument, they just make you appear erratic and exasperated.

[TH63]

A big no from me, I was in France during the Euros and I was a uncomfortable with seeing the Army on the streets as well as heavily armed police, I know it was a necessity but I would hate for that to become the norm here.

Besides why is there such a knee jerk reaction to yesterdays events? There was little that could have been done to stop what happened. I thought our emergency services did a terrific job of minimising what could have been a far worse situation. It's tragic that people died but the death toll was low compared to similar attacks in Berlin and especially Nice. I am not sure if arming the police will have stopped what happened yesterday.

Another good post. Not sure how accurate it is, but I've read a report that the armed officers on scene immediately ran to the car but in the confusion the driver made his way through the crowd and went for the unarmed policeman and was actually shot by the nearest armed office, a minister's close protection officer.
As you say, the bravery and professionalism of our police and other emergency services yesterday was something we should all applaud and be proud of, but it's difficult to understand what else they could've done. They are a credit to our country.

[blue matt]

I can't even tell what you're talking about or who you're quoting here. I really am giving up on talking to you now.

And as a bit of advice, the extra question marks don't help your argument, they just make you appear erratic and exasperated.

Aye ok

you know that is what i posted about the US police

[CardiffIrish2]

as a a retired met officer who was an AFO for 15 years my articulate thoughts are that the police don't need or want to be fully armed, what they need is enough armed response to deal with situations that arise, not a problem in London but obviously an issue in other smaller forces, carrying a weapon is a huge responsibility with the onus on you to justify your actions taken in the split second of an incident perhaps to a jury months later when what you did can be minutely examined, not everyone wants that responsibility, we've seen previous threads on this board with people asking why didn't they shoot to wound sums up the predicament nicely

As an ex copper of 13 years who left in 2014 I agree with above . I didnt want to be armed and some ( not the majority ) I wouldn't trust with a stapler. One Copper who was desperate to be armed used to play shooting games at home all night, thank **** he failed the tests otherwise he'd have been Maniac Cop meets Tackleberry from Police academy.
I think more Cops should be trained up, and also personally think there should be more Cops full stop.

Ironic Theresa May praising them yesterday when her and Tom Winsor have been ****ing over the various Police organisations over the country since 2010.

[blue matt]

as a a retired met officer who was an AFO for 15 years my articulate thoughts are that the police don't need or want to be fully armed, what they need is enough armed response to deal with situations that arise, not a problem in London but obviously an issue in other smaller forces, carrying a weapon is a huge responsibility with the onus on you to justify your actions taken in the split second of an incident perhaps to a jury months later when what you did can be minutely examined, not everyone wants that responsibility, we've seen previous threads on this board with people asking why didn't they shoot to wound sums up the predicament nicely

welcome to the thread, even though disagree with me

as you say, the answer must be to have more ARU's, i have used rural area's as a example, over 30 mins ETA to the furthest town in the county

you mention not all would want to be armed, what type of % do you think it would be ? ? ( I am planning to ask my mate this tomorrow ) i have mentioned in this thread the bloke next door using his tazer and the comebacks on it, he is still worried about it now

I have sent this thread to a AR Officer in the met, he has replied to me, that he will read it later

[TH63]

Matt's all over the place here today

[Packerman]

As an ex copper of 13 years who left in 2014 I agree with above . I didnt want to be armed and some ( not the majority ) I wouldn't trust with a stapler. One Copper who was desperate to be armed used to play shooting games at home all night, thank **** he failed the tests otherwise he'd have been Maniac Cop meets Tackleberry from Police academy.
I think more Cops should be trained up, and also personally think there should be more Cops full stop.

Ironic Theresa May praising them yesterday when her and Tom Winsor have been ****ing over the various Police organisations over the country since 2010.

often the john wayne types who really want to carry fail the tests or get weeded out during training , thank feck as you say as they make everyone nervous,

[Packerman]

welcome to the thread, even though disagree with me

as you say, the answer must be to have more ARU's, i have used rural area's as a example, over 30 mins ETA to the furthest town in the county

you mention not all would want to be armed, what type of % do you think it would be ? ? ( I am planning to ask my mate this tomorrow ) i have mentioned in this thread the bloke next door using his tazer and the comebacks on it, he is still worried about it now

I have sent this thread to a AR Officer in the met, he has replied to me, that he will read it later

the majority in my experience, as i said a huge responsibility, reasonable force can be a bastard when you have spray, perhaps a taser and a gun, split second to decide

[Packerman]

Matt's all over the place here today

boys got stamina though

[blue matt]

Matt's all over the place here today

Not really, i still believe that the police should be armed, just interested in Packermans View. maybe discussion with someone who has been on the " front line " might make me see it differently ( i will also be chatting tomorrow to blokey next door ) afterall its got to be better than the opinion of people who " just dislike the police "

[blue matt]

the majority in my experience, as i said a huge responsibility, reasonable force can be a bastard when you have spray, perhaps a taser and a gun, split second to decide

how long you been out ? ? ?

genuinely interested in this armed dilemma from people who have done it

[TH63]

Not really, i still believe that the police should be armed, just interested in Packermans View. maybe discussion with someone who has been on the " front line " might make me see it differently ( i will also be chatting tomorrow to blokey next door ) afterall its got to be better than the opinion of people who " just dislike the police "

You've had two former officer now more or less confirming what the colonel's been saying, in fact one of them said, and I quote, "I wouldn't trust some of them with a stapler"

[Packerman]

how long you been out ? ? ?

genuinely interested in this armed dilemma from people who have done it

retired in 2011,

[Kiffa]

do terrorists target villages?

Well no - so absolutely no need for the village bobby to be packing a glock really

[blue matt]

You've had two former officer now more or less confirming what the colonel's been saying, in fact one of them said, and I quote, "I wouldn't trust some of them with a stapler"

they have opinions ( which i respect ) , i have mine, hardly " all over the place "

[TH63]

they have opinions ( which i respect ) , i have mine, hardly " all over the place "

With respect (genuinely) , I value their opinion over yours.

[CardiffIrish2]

My believed opinion is that the Policeman who fired that shot yesterday will be investigated thoroughly , interviewed, his clothes taken at time he was wearing and he will be left sweating for a period of time whilst it is decided if he carried out his actions lawfully.

I once went into a custody suite where a bloke brought in on drunk and disorderly has a massive heart attack and died. All sorts of ailments bless him and nothing could be done. I had nothing to do with him but was still investigated throughly as I happened to be in the acells in another matter.
So I give respect to my ex colleagues who take up armed duties as it's a hell of a responsibility especially when you take a shot .

[blue matt]

retired in 2011,

i wonder if the % has changed with the " new terrorist threats "

[blue matt]

With respect (genuinely) , I value their opinion over yours.

and so you should, they have done it, i have no issues with that

I welcomed Packerman ( I didnt cardiffirsh as i missed it ) to the discussion, i would rather have a discussion with someone who has been on the front line over someone who " just doesnt like the police "

[Bluebird since 1948]

I actually know a former AR unit officer in a rural police force, he served for maybe a decade before switching to the canine unit maybe five years ago. I have not spoken to him about it recently but he said switching was like a weight off his shoulders. Although as far as I am aware he never had to kill anyone there were plenty of moment where he must have come close. He also told me they delve into your personal live and you must inform them of any significant changes. He eventually got moved because he was having an affair and his wife found out about it and the powers that be decided that was enough to move him over.

It goes to show that not everyone can handle that pressure, it should only be for those who can.

[blue matt]

[QUOTE=CardiffIrish2;4728975]My believed opinion is that the Policeman who fired that shot yesterday will be investigated thoroughly , interviewed, his clothes taken at time he was wearing and he will be left sweating for a period of time whilst it is decided if he carried out his actions lawfully.

/QUOTE]

which is the way it should be, while I would trust the call of the guy 100% ( naive maybe ) when he takes a life, of course it needs to be justified, which leads me to our police force being a step above the US

[Charlie]

Well his thread has taken a pleasantly informed turn.