Labour's election manifesto leaked.

[Dr Lecter]

Supposedly they're pledging to nationalise the railways, bus services, Royal Mail and energy services.

Also scrapping tuition fees.

Not sure how do-able that lot is but I'm sure the Tory led media will quickly pour cold water over it.

[Pearcey3]

Love it. Is it affordable? No idea but the Tories lie so I don't care.

[severncity]

Bring back Vesta curries and boil-in-the-bag cod in parsley sauce while they're at it. And white dog poo too.

[Dr Lecter]

Leaked!! - was it feck, you can tell by Labour's reaction to the 'leak' this was a very carefully planned 'leak'.
The 'leaked' manifesto was only a draft you see, so what happens now is that everyone talks about it - Labour see what the reaction is - then tweak / drop pledges.

I would do exactly the same thing - as it gets your party back in the limelight, what they need to make sure is that they havent spent the money three times over - which it appears they have. What really is disappointing is that they still think 'tax and spend' is worth pursuing

The money for it is all accounted for actually.

They're going to use the money they save by only paying policemen 8 grand a year.

[Rjk]

Best manifesto in ****ing years.
Pity the billionaire media barons will prevent it ever becoming a reality.

[Ainsley Harriott]

The money for it is all accounted for actually.

They're going to use the money they save by only paying policemen 8 grand a year.

That's a pretty tasty pay increase from Diane Abbot's planned £7.50 a year pay for officers...

[Dr Lecter]

That's a pretty tasty pay increase from Diane Abbot's planned £7.50 a year pay for officers...

Sorry, I mis-spoke there.

Of course I meant to say 300 million (plus overtime) per copper.

[Dr Lecter]

I think the printed press (left and right) are getting ignored by the majority of people. Most people tend to get their news and debate from bbc, skynews and the radio (which is nearly always the bbc), I listen to radio5 and 4 whenever in the car or working from home.

Social Media gives political parties a direct route to voters - it worked for Trump and nearly worked for Saunders in the US.

Add into that FaceBook , Twitter and Google Advertising as well as shares, likes, etc, its nearly at a point where print is obsolete.

What people want to see is all the policies listed out - how much they will cost, and how they will be paid for - either from cuts to other services or tax rises etc. So far - they havent been great on the numbers and seem to have spent the increased taxes 3 times over - before they have even been collected.

The elephant is still in the room though - do you want Corbyn negotiating Brexit ? - this isn't a normal general election - it comes down to who you want in No10 and Brexit delivery - everything else is just mood music.

ps - I will vote for any politician that will spend more on services, give everyone a pay rise, limit the number of hours I work, and extra bank holidays for everyone. But I've yet to meet any politician that gives me jam today and jam tomorrow. Blair came close - but then we had the hangover - tuition fees, Iraq, Boom - Bust - Crash.

If you think that May will do a better job of negotiating Brexit then you've well and truly been taken in.

Like it or not, the only way we'll get out of the eu is by stumping up lots of cash and no amount of grandstanding by the bloodless one will change that.

All May's political showboating has done is make the EU more determined to show us who's boss.

[Rjk]

Rail privatised: 1994
Royal Mail sold: 2013
Electricity privatised: 1990
Tuition fees: 1998
But Labour want to take us 'back to the 70s'


Unremorsefully stolen from Twitter

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Leaked!! - was it feck, you can tell by Labour's reaction to the 'leak' this was a very carefully planned 'leak'.
The 'leaked' manifesto was only a draft you see, so what happens now is that everyone talks about it - Labour see what the reaction is - then tweak / drop pledges.

I would do exactly the same thing - as it gets your party back in the limelight, what they need to make sure is that they havent spent the money three times over - which it appears they have. What really is disappointing is that they still think 'tax and spend' is worth pursuing

Funny how most of the countries with the best quality of life in the world tend to be run along the lines of higher taxation, better public services for the many.

[the other bob wilson]

Bring back Vesta curries and boil-in-the-bag cod in parsley sauce while they're at it. And white dog poo too.

You mean a time when we weren't in the Common Market/EU? Funny how so many making derogatory comments about the leaked Labour manifesto being a return to the 70s voted for just that in June last year!

For what it's worth, if elections were decided on policies alone, I think Labour would have a good chance of winning on June 8. I'd have no problems at all voting for them based on what I've heard so far, but I can't get around the fact that I don't believe their leader, shadow Chancellor, shadow Home Secretary and shadow Foreign Secretary are up to the job.

What people cannot say is that they do not have a choice in styles between the two biggest parties in this election. On the one hand, you have a party with policies that are offering a real change in approach from what we have currently, but are unable to convince the majority of the country that they have the personalities and gravitas to succeed. On the other, you have a governing party that could write it's manifesto on the back of a postage stamp as they offer more of the same old, same old under a leader who is perceived by most it would seem as their greatest asset - can't see it myself, but indecision, a fear of meeting ordinary people and a frequent use of the letter and words "I", "me" and "mine" "strong", "stable", "coalition", "of" and "chaos" are seen as election winning qualities these days it seems .

[CardiffIrish2]

I agree with the railway nationalisation.
But I'm not in favour of energy denationalisation.
Truth is thats the job I'm involved in is in private sector energy sales so can't agree with that one.
No matter what comes out Labour are still on course for a thumpIng 1983 style and I'd be amazed at anything different.

[Rjk]

IMG_20170511_135157.jpg

Labours cooperation tax rate proposal in some context.

[life on mars]

Funnily enough Bob there was an interview on the radio this morning with some sort of psychology professor - who said the same thing. A politician can promise people the world but there 2 hurdles they need to over come before anyone will vote for them , trust and competence. I dont think Corbyn, Abbott McDonnell have either at the moment (and probably never will).

Remember all May has to do in order to win - is be better than Corbyn - nothing else.

At least with May and Corbyn there is a clear choice of policy - though in essence they are both hamstrung by the economic environment around them. If Corbyn was replaced by a David Milliband type character - then perhaps Labour would have a chance. It doesnt matter who you are - you cant make a silk purse from a sows ear and companies faced with corporation taxes will make the necessary arrangements to negate that - so he would be spending money he hasn't got - which is where the whole ideology falls apart.

Other than that I remember British Rail and the strikes and everything else that was bad about a non competitive market environment - I also remember the Southern Rail strikes of this year. Nothing changes that much really

Spot on ,nothing more to add really , lets hope we sign a few decent elite players soon

[Rjk]

Funnily enough Bob there was an interview on the radio this morning with some sort of psychology professor - who said the same thing. A politician can promise people the world but there 2 hurdles they need to over come before anyone will vote for them , trust and competence. I dont think Corbyn, Abbott McDonnell have either at the moment (and probably never will).

Remember all May has to do in order to win - is be better than Corbyn - nothing else.

At least with May and Corbyn there is a clear choice of policy - though in essence they are both hamstrung by the economic environment around them. If Corbyn was replaced by a David Milliband type character - then perhaps Labour would have a chance. It doesnt matter who you are - you cant make a silk purse from a sows ear and companies faced with corporation taxes will make the necessary arrangements to negate that - so he would be spending money he hasn't got - which is where the whole ideology falls apart.

Other than that I remember British Rail and the strikes and everything else that was bad about a non competitive market environment - I also remember the Southern Rail strikes of this year. Nothing changes that much really

In a well functioning market the private sector is better than the public.
The rail is not a well functioning market. There is no real competition day to day. I can't go to Cardiff Queen st and choose which operator I want to get to Caerphilly.

You could actually design a nationalised rail industry that incorporated more day to day competition than the current privatised system has.
If the lines were still run regionally they could compete against one another and the best performing ones would get bonuses for all staff from top to bottom.
Our could have a bonus for hitting profit targets, running on time, passenger satisfaction etc

The energy markets​ are a more complex case.
The front end customer facing bits are in reasonable competition, but the infrastructure stuff behind the scenes are not.

[Feedback]

If you think that May will do a better job of negotiating Brexit then you've well and truly been taken in.

Like it or not, the only way we'll get out of the eu is by stumping up lots of cash and no amount of grandstanding by the bloodless one will change that.

All May's political showboating has done is make the EU more determined to show us who's boss.

[Feedback]

IMG_20170511_135157.jpg

Labours cooperation tax rate proposal in some context.

cooperation tax rates

You cannot tax corporation tax rates in isolation when you add in a whole host of other business taxes which show the true extent of doing business in the UK

[LordKenwyne]

They can't claim to be pro business at all with some of these policies.

Basically do anything possible to win workers votes.

There needs to be a balance between punishing employers and rewarding employees. This is too lobsided in my opinion. This will hurt small to medium companies more than any other.

Workers are obviously gushing over it saying it is amazing. Yes, well done, if all these policies are enforced you'll probably just be laid off.

The quicker labour move on from the mantra that all business is evil, maybe they'll stop dying.

[Rjk]

They can't claim to be pro business at all with some of these policies.

Basically do anything possible to win workers votes.

There needs to be a balance between punishing employers and rewarding employees. This is too lobsided in my opinion. This will hurt small to medium companies more than any other.

Workers are obviously gushing over it saying it is amazing. Yes, well done, if all these policies are enforced you'll probably just be laid off.

The quicker labour move on from the mantra that all business is evil, maybe they'll stop dying.

It's hardly a savage attack on the profit makers, it basically brings us more into line with the rest of Europe.

At the end of the day we have a simple choice, we can give this money to the richest or we can spend it to make our country a better place to live.

Even if you don't think Labour will be able to afford to do 100% of the things they've said they'll try to do, that's surely better than just handing it to the rich and hoping some will trickle down to where it is needed.

[lardy]

If you think that May will do a better job of negotiating Brexit then you've well and truly been taken in.

Like it or not, the only way we'll get out of the eu is by stumping up lots of cash and no amount of grandstanding by the bloodless one will change that.

All May's political showboating has done is make the EU more determined to show us who's boss.

Don't worry, she's bringing back fox hunting. That'll get the Jurgens and the Jean-Pauls back on our side.

[LordKenwyne]

It's hardly a savage attack on the profit makers, it basically brings us more into line with the rest of Europe.

At the end of the day we have a simple choice, we can give this money to the richest or we can spend it to make our country a better place to live.

Even if you don't think Labour will be able to afford to do 100% of the things they've said they'll try to do, that's surely better than just handing it to the rich and hoping some will trickle down to where it is needed.

That is fair enough, but:

-Increase paternity leave.
-Increase pay on paternity leave.
-Strengthen maternity leave.
-Four new public holidays.
-Every worker has a right to a union. + collective bargaining.
-Stopping employers from employing only from overseas (but they don't come here to take our jobs, so what is the problem?)
-Minimum wage raised to a tenner by 2020.
-Increase main rate of corporation tax to 26%

will mainly not have an affect on big business. Or bringing money in from big business. It will hurt smaller companies.

They preach that they are there for smaller firms to grow and grow then they do this

Labour voters will see money coming away from business and their default response is well that must be good.

This one will be atrocious I believe:

-Every worker has a right to a union. + collective bargaining.

[Rjk]

That is fair enough, but:

-Increase paternity leave.
-Increase pay on paternity leave.
-Strengthen maternity leave.
-Four new public holidays.
-Every worker has a right to a union. + collective bargaining.
-Stopping employers from employing only from overseas (but they don't come here to take our jobs, so what is the problem?)
-Minimum wage raised to a tenner by 2020.
-Increase main rate of corporation tax to 26%

will mainly not have an affect on big business. Or bringing money in from big business. It will hurt smaller companies.

They preach that they are there for smaller firms to grow and grow then they do this

Labour voters will see money coming away from business and their default response is well that must be good.

This one will be atrocious I believe:

-Every worker has a right to a union. + collective bargaining.

All of those other measures you mentioned are also just bringing us more in line with Europe. Parental leave is great in places like Sweden and Germany, and last time I checked they have so far managed to avoid descending into a post apocalyptic anarchy.
The Tories would like us all to believe that these things are unattainable, because they are mostly wealthy enough to have no need for them.

[Eric Cartman]

All of those other measures you mentioned are also just bringing us more in line with Europe. Parental leave is great in places like Sweden and Germany, and last time I checked they have so far managed to avoid descending into a post apocalyptic anarchy.
The Tories would like us all to believe that these things are unattainable, because they are mostly wealthy enough to have no need for them.

Bingo.

[life on mars]

The Total Tax Contribution of the 100 Business Group was £82.3 billion, up from £80.5 billion in 2015. This includes both taxes borne of £23.7bn and taxes collected of £58.6bn, and represents 13.3% of total government receipts.

This is just 100 businesses ,best we dont attack dog then to badly as they provide jobs , revenues, pay staff ,who then purchase goods,better their lives , and pay more tax ,its an easy target , however without business and businessmen and investment within the private sector we would just be left with public non profitable public sector jobs.

Interestingly Corporation tax is the third largest tax , after employers’ NIC and business rates. The contribution from corporation tax has increased by 9.2% from the previous year, despite the rate has been at its lowest level since over the last 2 years ago .

I'm not saying we cant be smarter in gathering tax revenues , but simply saying money for this and that ,nationalise that , and we fund from taxing this area, not the answer its a bit short sighted , there are plenty of other areas of wastage going on that could be targeted , but are way too politically sensitive, as it effects core voters .

[Pearcey3]

If you think that May will do a better job of negotiating Brexit then you've well and truly been taken in.

Like it or not, the only way we'll get out of the eu is by stumping up lots of cash and no amount of grandstanding by the bloodless one will change that.

All May's political showboating has done is make the EU more determined to show us who's boss.

Absolutely. I don't think the EU care less what May says. She certainly isn't doing herself any favours. I suspect someone like Keir Starmer would be much more effective