Labour's election manifesto leaked.

[Eric Cartman]

The Total Tax Contribution of the 100 Business Group was £82.3 billion, up from £80.5 billion in 2015. This includes both taxes borne of £23.7bn and taxes collected of £58.6bn, and represents 13.3% of total government receipts.

This is just 100 businesses ,best we dont attack dog then to badly as they provide jobs , revenues, pay staff ,who then purchase goods,better their lives , and pay more tax ,its an easy target , however without business and businessmen and investment within the private sector we would just be left with public non profitable public sector jobs.

Interestingly Corporation tax is the third largest tax , after employers’ NIC and business rates. The contribution from corporation tax has increased by 9.2% from the previous year, despite the rate has been at its lowest level since over the last 2 years ago .

I'm not saying we cant be smarter in gathering tax revenues , but simply saying money for this and that ,nationalise that , and we fund from taxing this area, not the answer its a bit short sighted , there are plenty of other areas of wastage going on that could be targeted , but are way too politically sensitive, as it effects core voters .

Whilst I understand what you are saying it feels dangerously close to 'lets ask the businesses what they would like to contribute'...

Railway nationalisation is actually an issue where right and left seem to meet around the back quite often. It doesn't make sense to pump public money into something that produces profit for private companies. Especially when you consider the levels of service and perception of most commuters that the cost of train tickets is absurdly high. I don't feel like we are getting a good deal as a country.

In terms of the cost, it is almost as though you haven't read it or even thought about it. There is absolutely no reason why nationalisation of the railways would cost a penny. Energy industry is a different kettle of fish but the approach in the manifesto appears to involve setting up publicly owned companies to effectively regulate the industry from within by providing competition.

[Eric Cartman]

Absolutely. I don't think the EU care less what May says. She certainly isn't doing herself any favours. I suspect someone like Keir Starmer would be much more effective

It is laughable really, she and the rest of her drones have spent months lecturing everyone about how to negotiate and on day 1 she isolated herself. They appear to have convinced themselves that we are the big brother of the EU and can dictate everything...

[tommy31]

Good manifesto, fair play to him for having the balls to put stuff like the railways in it.

[Eric Cartman]

Eric - Jean-Claude Juncker has admitted that the leak of his discussions with Theresa May during a Downing Street dinner was a "serious mistake" in case you missed it. The man is drunken unelected fool, with a very corrupt past.

What is your point? What kind of deal we end up with rests solely with team theresa (or whatever the conservatives are called this week), I haven't seen anything from her to suggest that she will do a good job.

[Eric Cartman]

Eric - regardless of this election result - re the Railways, in Wales the WAG have stated (not promised) that when the Arriva Trains Wales franchise runs out - they will run it themselves - so in effect they will be creating a 'Wales Rail'

It will be interesting to see if the WAG have A. The Balls to try and run it and B What the service / strike levels are like. At least then we in Wales could be the test for a much wider roll out in the UK.

Personally I would like to see it run like the Japanese railways. Where private companies are allowed to run some services, but there is a national railway (Japan Rail) that is run by a company on behalf of the Govt.

I would just like to see it run well. I don't care if we steal the blueprint for this from the eskimos or from the jetsons. At the moment it costs a lot and is shit, chuck one franchise out and there is a good chance another shit one replaces it. Something needs to change - maybe we just say if x% of the trains are late then the CEO gets his nuts chopped off.

[Organ Morgan.]

I had a long chat with one of Arriva's Revenue Protection people a few days ago. He made a stoic defence of the company. He said the Assembly's to blame for overcrowded trains because they grossly underestimated the increase in passenger numbers when awarding the franchise. He also contended that they can't get hold of extra carriages as there's none to be had. I was surprised to learn he worked for a sub-contractor and he along with all his colleagues are on zero hour contracts.

[Rjk]

I had a long chat with one of Arriva's Revenue Protection people a few days ago. He made a stoic defence of the company. He said the Assembly's to blame for overcrowded trains because they grossly underestimated the increase in passenger numbers when awarding the franchise. He also contended that they can't get hold of extra carriages as there's none to be had. I was surprised to learn he worked for a sub-contractor and he along with all his colleagues are on zero hour contracts.

One of the main problems with the franchise system is the terms are set 20 years at a time.

[Eric Cartman]

Eric - "I would just like to see it run well."

Serious question - What makes you think the WAG could run it any better than a company that has been running train and transport services for years ?

For a start, I don't live in Wales so my comments are regarding the train system of the UK (but mainly around London).

Well it wouldn't be run 'by the wag', in the same way that Jeremy Hunt isn't sitting at the front desk of my local hospital taking names. The likelihood is it would be staffed by roughly the same kind of people with the same kind of experience. The upside would be that currently every decision is made based on the potential for profit, if it was not-for-profit and publicly owned the decisions could be made based on how best to transport passengers from A to B (i.e. the point of a railway).

[Eric Cartman]

I didnt realise that Northern Ireland railway system has remained publicly owned ever since 1948 -
I then Googled "Northern Ireland's rail system strike"

And it seems they like strike or 2 https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Northern+Ireland%27s+rail+system&oq=Northern+Ireland%27s+rail+system&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=Northern+Ireland's+rail+system+strike

How does it perform compared to the privately owned franchises?

[Kris]

Supposedly they're pledging to nationalise the railways, bus services, Royal Mail and energy services.

Also scrapping tuition fees.

Not sure how do-able that lot is but I'm sure the Tory led media will quickly pour cold water over it.

Labour have my vote, first time since 1997. Great manifesto.

[Eric Cartman]

Are you not allowed to make comments about things in places where you dont live then ? - bizarre

Ok lets keep it to where you live then - so what you are saying is that the same people that work for Southern Rail will work for a new publicly owner company (I get that bit) my point being when looking at the Northen Ireland public sector trains - they seem to have a fair bit of industrial action going on - to say the least.

Now - going on to your other point about the money - every franchise is different and the contracts have a "cap and collar" clause which means in the contract they state how much revenue they expect to come in (agreed by both sides) - if there is too much revenue - they pay the Govt , if there is a short fall - the govt pays the franchise. Some franchises make a surplus - some dont.

As you know Im sure - the franchises dont own the rolling stock and dont look after the track.

Why not have a read of the full fact article https://fullfact.org/news/do-train-o...ssive-profits/ where it explains it all for you.

ps - going back to WAG Railways - the guards and drivers etc who have to work for someone. I think goes back to a mindset - if you used to work for British Rail - you knew you had the Govt over a barrel - there was no competition, and there was no incentive to provide a decent service - as you could not be got rid of.

my original point still stands - it needs to be run something akin to the Japanese model - which runs a mix of both private and public.

I think it stands to reason that I wouldn't specifically comment on a train system I don't use.

I can accept privatisation as a good alternative if there is the potential for competition. In general, customers can't 'shop elsewhere' so there is no incentive for failing franchises to improve, they end up leaning on the government more and more but still somehow making a profit. I live in one of the few small towns to have two stations with two different operators as they are different lines. I actually have choice, the downside of this is you get to see how disjointed the system has become over the last 20 years. Oyster is available at one and not the other because it hasn't been rolled out by one provider.

I am not specifically advocating a return to British Rail and everything being run centrally. I just think decisions about vital public services shouldn't be made with shareholders in mind.

How does the publicly run rail service in Northern Ireland compare to franchises in England and Wales in terms of delays and customer satisfaction?

[TH63]

Supposedly they're pledging to nationalise the railways, bus services, Royal Mail and energy services.

Also scrapping tuition fees.

Not sure how do-able that lot is but I'm sure the Tory led media will quickly pour cold water over it.

I would imagine that the cheapest option from the above wish list would be scrapping tuition fees. A mere £10bn per annum

All very noble ideals, but who's going to be paying for it?

[LordKenwyne]

All of those other measures you mentioned are also just bringing us more in line with Europe. Parental leave is great in places like Sweden and Germany, and last time I checked they have so far managed to avoid descending into a post apocalyptic anarchy.
The Tories would like us all to believe that these things are unattainable, because they are mostly wealthy enough to have no need for them.

The quite small nation that is sweden are not really what we are looking.

It isn't a case of employers always squeezing employees. In my experience is very often the other way around.

If you think universal collective bargaining would be a good thing for workers then I hope you manage a workforce on a budget in the future.

[LordKenwyne]

I would imagine that the cheapest option from the above wish list would be scrapping tuition fees. A mere £10bn per annum

All very noble ideals, but who's going to be paying for it?

Tax more init.

So those clever people that aspire to getting a great career can go to Uni for free.

To be told they aren't paying their fair share in tax if they succeed.

Around in circles we go.

[LordKenwyne]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...d=tmg_share_tw

Maybe Labour will clarify their costing...

[Eric Cartman]

I would imagine that the cheapest option from the above wish list would be scrapping tuition fees. A mere £10bn per annum

All very noble ideals, but who's going to be paying for it?

Well it benefits everyone to have as educated workforce as possible. Unfortunately university has become about delaying entering the workplace (in a lot of cases) while learning almost nothing useful. Domestically it was possibly the worst move labour made in government in my opinion, so hard to reverse the trend of university being the default. The whole system is designed to load debt onto kids and is mental really.

Part of the blame should be placed on further education itself. They shouldnt be offering some of the crappy courses that they do but like everyone else these days they cant resist going for the cash.

[Eric Cartman]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...d=tmg_share_tw

Maybe Labour will clarify their costing...

I think they should probably wait and see what is in the published manifesto.

[LordKenwyne]

I think they should probably wait and see what is in the published manifesto.

Ye I was thinking that.

Slandering Labour and it isn't even their manifesto yet.

[life on mars]

Whilst I understand what you are saying it feels dangerously close to 'lets ask the businesses what they would like to contribute'...

Railway nationalisation is actually an issue where right and left seem to meet around the back quite often. It doesn't make sense to pump public money into something that produces profit for private companies. Especially when you consider the levels of service and perception of most commuters that the cost of train tickets is absurdly high. I don't feel like we are getting a good deal as a country.

In terms of the cost, it is almost as though you haven't read it or even thought about it. There is absolutely no reason why nationalisation of the railways would cost a penny. Energy industry is a different kettle of fish but the approach in the manifesto appears to involve setting up publicly owned companies to effectively regulate the industry from within by providing competition.

I do agree rail effects so many lives, however that central control efficiency will it work ? does it bring with it old fashioned power struggles unions v government , it needs to be a protected service to the public as per policing, people should not be held to ransom . .

[Heathblue]

I do agree rail effects so many lives, however that central control efficiency will it work ? does it bring with it old fashioned power struggles unions v government , it needs to be a protected service to the public as per policing, people should not be held to ransom . .

Keep it private , and get rid of Welsh Labour having any influence, it's become shambolic and i'm a regular user of the service, it needs regulation and controlling but, by a non political and non profit making entity.

[Eric Cartman]

I do agree rail effects so many lives, however that central control efficiency will it work ? does it bring with it old fashioned power struggles unions v government , it needs to be a protected service to the public as per policing, people should not be held to ransom . .

I don't understand why or how this country has become so accepting of big business holding us to ransom but so scared of a small group of normal people doing it.

[life on mars]

It is laughable really, she and the rest of her drones have spent months lecturing everyone about how to negotiate and on day 1 she isolated herself. They appear to have convinced themselves that we are the big brother of the EU and can dictate everything...

Lets be honest the skills we need for this have gone and not needed since us joining , its a pity we cant get a cross party consensus on this type of issue and others like NHS , immigration ,unfortunately each of the parties like to use the subjects as emotional battering rams and gain browny points with the electorate .

Coalition politics is the way forward ,I wonder how many would now vote for a Cameron / Clegg party instead of the current choices ?

[Eric Cartman]

Lets be honest the skills we need for this have gone and not needed since us joining , its a pity we cant get a cross party consensus on this type of issue and others like NHS , immigration ,unfortunately each of the parties like to use the subjects as emotional battering rams and gain browny points with the electorate .

Coalition politics is the way forward ,I wonder how many would now vote for a Cameron / Clegg party instead of the current choices ?

It definitely doesn't look so bad now haha

[David Vincent]

Well it benefits everyone to have as educated workforce as possible. Unfortunately university has become about delaying entering the workplace (in a lot of cases) while learning almost nothing useful. Domestically it was possibly the worst move labour made in government in my opinion, so hard to reverse the trend of university being the default. The whole system is designed to load debt onto kids and is mental really.

Part of the blame should be placed on further education itself. They shouldnt be offering some of the crappy courses that they do but like everyone else these days they cant resist going for the cash.

I must be very drunk because I agree with nearly everything Eric has just written. I used to think he was a moron. Here's a question for historians on here. What was the contribution of our universities to the industrial revolution? The answer is zero.

[LordKenwyne]

http://www.labour.org.uk/page/-/Imag...sto%202017.pdf

Here's the manifesto