Dementia tax

[Alfonso Perez]

Anyone watching bbc1?
Christ Andrew Neil is giving it to Theresa May fair play.
Not in that way you mucky lot....

I don't think anyone can accuse Andrew Neil of bias as politicians get it off him with both barrels regardless of their political persuasion

[Eric Cartman]

What about those people who have worked hard, paid their fair share of taxes & led prudent lives in order to build up a decent level of assets for a comfortable retirement & something to pass onto their children?

I would imagine the majority of people fit into that category. I don't understand why I (current/future) taxpayer should pay for somebodies care solely so their 50+ year old children can receive a wacking big inheritance. If the taxes they had paid held any relevance in this discussion then we wouldn't be having to talk about it in the first place.

Before you look at the murky side of all of this (the discussion about insurance products etc) it resembles a sustainable policy, but unfortunately a lot of British people of a certain age don't want a sustainable solution that won't burden future generations, they want their cake and then they want to give it to their 'kids' so they can eat it too.

[Eric Cartman]

There was a point made on radio5 earlier - do you not think that if Nick Clegg promised to make tuition fees Free and then realised the cost of making that happen and said sorry oopsie cant do it.

What makes people thank that Corbyn and McDonnell could make tuition fees free ? (as well as all the other stuff)

Always worth a chuckle - policy announced, policy criticised, policy changed - changed policy decision criticised. 10p tax, hot pasties, Nick Clegg tuition fees

Is that true? I always assumed it was just one of those things that they knew they could never agree as part of a coalition and were quite happy to barter away to make other parts of their manifesto happen.

[Alfonso Perez]

I would imagine the majority of people fit into that category. I don't understand why I (current/future) taxpayer should pay for somebodies care solely so their 50+ year old children can receive a wacking big inheritance. If the taxes they had paid held any relevance in this discussion then we wouldn't be having to talk about it in the first place.

Before you look at the murky side of all of this (the discussion about insurance products etc) it resembles a sustainable policy, but unfortunately a lot of British people of a certain age don't want a sustainable solution that won't burden future generations, they want their cake and then they want to give it to their 'kids' so they can eat it too.

Fair play that's an incredibly narrow minded attitude towards normal people who have led sensible lives & done the right thing. I know of people who are making great sacrifices to save for their future & am firmly of the opinion that working hard & paying your fair share of taxes should go hand in hand with being treated fairly in your old age.

If normal people choose to save & build assets for their retirement & to pass onto their children then surely this should be encouraged, not discouraged via the threat of having most of it taken away if they need help in their old age.

[Since64]

I've read with interest the debate on this topic and a special thanks to Organ Morgan for his imput re seven year rule but the family have already used that one,so my question is do you think they will stop that option and if so do you think there will be loopholes in the new system?

[Wales-Bales]

I thought the bbc were supposed to biased towards the Tories and anti Labour, isnt that correct Lefties ?

It's probably an elaborate plan to get Corbyn elected and then keep us in the EU

[Mrs Steve R]

Fair play that's an incredibly narrow minded attitude towards normal people who have led sensible lives & done the right thing. I know of people who are making great sacrifices to save for their future & am firmly of the opinion that working hard & paying your fair share of taxes should go hand in hand with being treated fairly in your old age.

If normal people choose to save & build assets for their retirement & to pass onto their children then surely this should be encouraged, not discouraged via the threat of having most of it taken away if they need help in their old age.

Couldn't agree more, hardly an incentive is it.

[Eric Cartman]

Fair play that's an incredibly narrow minded attitude towards normal people who have led sensible lives & done the right thing. I know of people who are making great sacrifices to save for their future & am firmly of the opinion that working hard & paying your fair share of taxes should go hand in hand with being treated fairly in your old age.

If normal people choose to save & build assets for their retirement & to pass onto their children then surely this should be encouraged, not discouraged via the threat of having most of it taken away if they need help in their old age.

The whole reason we are having this discussion is because it has become apparent that successive governments haven't managed to appropriately plan for the future - Social care is a problem simply because people haven't paid enough tax to pay for their care in old age. The baby boomer generation are the first (and only) to have taken out more than they will put in and therefore something drastic must be done.

Forget the emotional rhetoric for one second and try to remember that I am only expecting people to pay for their own existence (if they can afford to and if not the taxpayer will foot the bill), you are expected to do that for the rest of the time you are an adult. You make it sound like I am proposing stealing off them.

My gran went into a care home and died within 9 months. I will be keeping my parents out of it for as long as possible and by then I hope they have spent all the money that they have earned on doing things they enjoy. I would love a flat in a ski resort but not if it will cripple society and make the next generation poorer than the previous one.

[Eric Cartman]

I think the bit the Lib Dems seemed to have forgotten was that it used to 5% of School leavers that went to 'uni' , now it is just under 50%, so whatever the cost used to be - it is now 10 times that amount.
"It was a pledge made with the best of intentions – but we should not have made a promise we were not absolutely sure we could deliver. I shouldn't have committed to a policy that was so expensive when there was no money around."

The irony is that the fees went up and forecasts suggest that the government won't receive any more money back in repayments from £9,000 fees than £3,000. It really does demonstrate perfectly that money is just a few 0's on a screen these days.

[Eric Cartman]

Couldn't agree more, hardly an incentive is it.

The incentive is being self sufficient and not crippling the next generation.

I think that was actually May's intention, but she had to make a U-turn because people don't like funding their own lifestyle.

[Eric Cartman]

Just to make something clear. I would prefer a progressive tax system which pays for health and care. That ship has sailed unfortunately. Can't expect this generation to pick up the bill else it is no more than one big pyramid scheme.

[Mrs Steve R]

It's probably an elaborate plan to get Corbyn elected and then keep us in the EU

http://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.php...=1#post4654922

The incentive is being self sufficient and not crippling the next generation.

I think that was actually May's intention, but she had to make a U-turn because people don't like funding their own lifestyle.

[Pearcey3]

I thought the bbc were supposed to biased towards the Tories and anti Labour, isnt that correct Lefties ?

I thought he was pretty kind to her given the mess of the Tory presentation. He willbe far more aggressive on Friday

[Eric Cartman]

http://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.php...=1#post4654922

[Gofer Blue]

Re: university fees. I would be in favour of scrapping tuition fees but only for those degree courses where there is an urgent need for graduates in those disciplines e.g. medicine, nursing, engineering, computing, teaching. Retain the fees for courses such as media studies, art history, criminology, soccer studies, surf science (I kid you not) and sociology.

Re: the "dementia tax". Teresa May is correct in that this issue has to be tackled now, it cannot be put off. With the numbers of people over 75 set to rise dramatically, the whole care system will surely collapse without the same people being prepared to fund their own care. I was 70 this year so I am acutely aware of the issue! Thankfully I am pretty fit and still compos mentis. However I regularly visit an old lady in a care home where most of the residents are completely ga-ga, sitting silently in their armchairs with vacant expressions from morning til night, unless moved to be fed or have their nappies changed. I know it's wrong to think it, but I must confess that I do wonder from time to time why we prolong life in these circumstances. It's not a scenario I would like to find myself in but what could I do about it if I was?

[Eric Cartman]

Re: university fees. I would be in favour of scrapping tuition fees but only for those degree courses where there is an urgent need for graduates in those disciplines e.g. medicine, nursing, engineering, computing, teaching. Retain the fees for courses such as media studies, art history, criminology, soccer studies, surf science (I kid you not) and sociology.

Re: the "dementia tax". Teresa May is correct in that this issue has to be tackled now, it cannot be put off. With the numbers of people over 75 set to rise dramatically, the whole care system will surely collapse without the same people being prepared to fund their own care. I was 70 this year so I am acutely aware of the issue! Thankfully I am pretty fit and still compos mentis. However I regularly visit an old lady in a care home where most of the residents are completely ga-ga, sitting silently in their armchairs with vacant expressions from morning til night, unless moved to be fed or have their nappies changed. I know it's wrong to think it, but I must confess that I do wonder from time to time why we prolong life in these circumstances. It's not a scenario I would like to find myself in but what could I do about it if I was?

You have officially entered dangerous territory on CCMB.

I hope by the time I am 'old' there is some level of choice about when to go (without just jumping off beachy head). I had major surgery at 12, my insides are a bit ****ed up from it and when I visualise myself at 80 I cant help but imagine the poor bastard tasked with cleaning my poop up. History of dementia in both my parents families. I just can't see it being much fun and I don't really see the point once I can't make myself some toast.

Just a note on surf science, I lived with someone who did it. She was completely unprepared though, there was some pretty intense maths/physics expected of people doing the course and that was only the first year.

[Packerman]

You have officially entered dangerous territory on CCMB.

I hope by the time I am 'old' there is some level of choice about when to go (without just jumping off beachy head). I had major surgery at 12, my insides are a bit ****ed up from it and when I visualise myself at 80 I cant help but imagine the poor bastard tasked with cleaning my poop up. History of dementia in both my parents families. I just can't see it being much fun and I don't really see the point once I can't make myself some toast.

Just a note on surf science, I lived with someone who did it. She was completely unprepared though, there was some pretty intense maths/physics expected of people doing the course and that was only the first year.

my partner has alzheimers, she cant make her own toast and depends on me BUT as he has a lovely nature and is a joy to me every day, dark times ahead but you literally do live day to day and savour every happy moment

[life on mars]

I thought the bbc were supposed to biased towards the Tories and anti Labour, isnt that correct Lefties ?

And I clearly remember Cameron and Osborne and Thatcher loathing the left leaning BBC, and many years before that .It has always been left leaning and despised by the Tories, who wanted to break it up and privatise it , this has come about because someone has suggested the media as a whole is right sided , which in its self is fake news ,if you keep saying it enough time it becomes true in some minds .

[Gofer Blue]

my partner has alzheimers, she cant make her own toast and depends on me BUT as he has a lovely nature and is a joy to me every day, dark times ahead but you literally do live day to day and savour every happy moment

I have a dear friend who is in a similar situation to yourself. I have known him and his wife for about 35 years and she is now succumbing to dementia. It is so sad to see what's happening but his patience and love for her is truly inspirational - I just don't know how I would react in the same circumstances. I guess none of us know until it happens to us. As you say, all you can do is take each day as it comes.

[Eric Cartman]

my partner has alzheimers, she cant make her own toast and depends on me BUT as he has a lovely nature and is a joy to me every day, dark times ahead but you literally do live day to day and savour every happy moment

It was a rash statement on my behalf. Many more happy moments to come for you and your family I hope.

[Packerman]

It was a rash statement on my behalf. Many more happy moments to come for you and your family I hope.

[Gofer Blue]

You have officially entered dangerous territory on CCMB.

I hope by the time I am 'old' there is some level of choice about when to go (without just jumping off beachy head). I had major surgery at 12, my insides are a bit ****ed up from it and when I visualise myself at 80 I cant help but imagine the poor bastard tasked with cleaning my poop up. History of dementia in both my parents families. I just can't see it being much fun and I don't really see the point once I can't make myself some toast.

Just a note on surf science, I lived with someone who did it. She was completely unprepared though, there was some pretty intense maths/physics expected of people doing the course and that was only the first year.

This is the great dilemma of course. By the time you reach that stage, even if euthanasia were to become legal, will you be capable of making your wishes known? You could write a "living will" in advance but if you are not diagnosed as terminally ill (which most dementia patients are not, at least not with any certainty about timing) what then? The argument goes that you, the dementia patient, are "out of it" so your condition does not bother you nor does it bother you (apparently) that your nearest and dearest have to live a living hell seeing you in that state. This is leaving aside the enormous cost of keeping you alive, both in money terms and employing people to look after you - people who could be looking after folk in hospitals, helping them to recover and go on living useful lives. Sadly this is the harsh reality surely. I don't have the answer BTW, just the nagging fear that I could end up like one of the folk in the care home that I visit regularly.

Re: surf science degree - ok it may involve some maths/physics (so did my pharmacy degree) but what use is it? Does the country desperately need graduates in surf science and should I, the tax payer, be paying for it?