Social Housing

[Packerman]

I live In a housing association property
It's called Aquila house, falcon drive, Cardiff bay
it's located about 60 seconds from the National Assembly of wales to the right off me. It's a lovey place to live we even have out very on concierge service, cleaners the lot
If anything in the flat breaks I.e lights,boilers, windows etc we call the housing association and they come out and fix it
I pay £460 a month for a 2 bed and that's with water rates included
I think my council tax is £116 a month
Me and my Mrs work full time

I drive a Mercedes

Life's great

you need a Focus to impress this board mate

[Eric Cartman]

The other option is to go back to creating ghettos of people with social problems, a sort of cleansing of more affluent areas. These ghettos do even less for those people, but let's be honest, it's about people being snobbish.

We are all kinda NIMBYs at heart even if we see the need. If Donna was ringing up with the kind of stories we have heard in this thread then I could have some sympathy because it isn't fair that people have to deal with shit.

As far as I am aware, Donna's new neighbours haven't done anything to her other than exist.

Humble, genuine people tend to attribute their success and prosperity down to many different things including luck. Donna seems to think she is better than everyone else and did it all herself.

[WJ99mobile]

once again we have a thread that raises a political issue and once again we have those on both sides who display the usual lack of empathy for considering the alternative.

without a doubt this is a devastating human tragedy and something in the short term had to be done. However, I cannot see how longer term housing social tenants in such a block is going to create anything other than enmity from the majority of those who have paid inordinate amounts of money (and continue to do so). Clearly they bought the property on the basis it was a private residence and would expect to continue ownership under those circumstances.

for those that say that 20% of all new build must be social housing. This is correct, but by and large developers build the social housing aspect away from the main development so that the private/social mix isn't always there. clearly this is an abuse of the intended purpose of the policy but it is the only way social housing can be built.

Social housing % is different on each development and each council. All agreed at planning stage.

It's also down to the council to have a say where the social houses are on the site. Sometimes they're more integrated, again site specific.

[Mrs Steve R]

We are all kinda NIMBYs at heart even if we see the need. If Donna was ringing up with the kind of stories we have heard in this thread then I could have some sympathy because it isn't fair that people have to deal with shit.

As far as I am aware, Donna's new neighbours haven't done anything to her other than exist.

Humble, genuine people tend to attribute their success and prosperity down to many different things including luck. Donna seems to think she is better than everyone else and did it all herself.

This is true but you can understand why she is worried about what kind of neighbour she's going to get, nobody is saying these people should not be housed or that they are bad people, I have a lot of sympathy for them and wouldn't wish what they have been through on anyone, but at the same time I wouldn't wish my neighbours on anyone either.
Things are better now as their kids are older and not there as much but at one time I dreaded Steve going to work on the weekends because I didn't want to be here on my own, I was constantly on edge wondering what they were going to do next, it's horrible.

[Feedback]

This is true but you can understand why she is worried about what kind of neighbour she's going to get, nobody is saying these people should not be housed or that they are bad people, I have a lot of sympathy for them and wouldn't wish what they have been through on anyone, but at the same time I wouldn't wish my neighbours on anyone either.
Things are better now as their kids are older and not there as much but at one time I dreaded Steve going to work on the weekends because I didn't want to be here on my own, I was constantly on edge wondering what they were going to do next, it's horrible.

Perhaps you shouldn't spy on them taking a piss then :D

[Mrs Steve R]

Perhaps you shouldn't spy on them taking a piss then :D

He's on the other side, we don't hear a peep out of him, but I still get one.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

On the row of houses that I live on we all own our houses except for my next door neighbours who rent, they have been a nightmare from day one, their kids put paint stripper on Steve's van, cracked our kitchen window, they have had countless parties that have ended up with police there.
Even their chickens kept invading my garden at one stage, the chickens have gone now, dunno what happened to them, they probably sacrificed them or something.

Fowl play.

[Nick]

One problem is that 'affordable housing' is often unaffordable - especially for the working poor.

The definition is 80% of local market rents - and in many parts of the country that means you have to be well off or one of the very few who get through the allocations and benefits lottery through their local council.


https://www.theguardian.com/housing-...social-housing

Out of interest what proportion of these affordable housing tenants actually pay the rent themselves out of money they earn?

[blue matt]

Social housing % is different on each development and each council. All agreed at planning stage.

It's also down to the council to have a say where the social houses are on the site. Sometimes they're more integrated, again site specific.

around here they like to integrate them, as i described, 400 K house backing onto a row of affordable houses ( its a row of 4 )

[blue matt]

As far as I am aware, Donna's new neighbours haven't done anything to her other than exist.

.

Very true, but what are the chances of them becoming a bit of a nuisance ? ?

[blue matt]

I know what you mean mate, I once had a window cleaner move in next to me, and he totally lowered the tone of the neighbourhood!

they can do that, especially if they have a white van, it seems people hate them white vans

This is an interesting and revealing thread.

I wonder if there are any lazy caricatures, cliches or sneering put-downs we have missed? Surely scope to do a bit more around white vans, travellers and 'closed curtains'?



.

with ref to the white van, it was aimed at me, Wales-Bales might have thought it funny to mention window cleaners, I replied as that is one of my jobs and i guess he wanted me to reply, but the dig about white vans was aimed at me, as when i moved into my new house, i wasnt allowed to park " commercial Vehicles " on the estate for 5 years due to a covenant on the estate

[Croesy Blue]

Out of interest what proportion of these affordable housing tenants actually pay the rent themselves out of money they earn?

What's it to you? Would you rather they were on the street?

[Croesy Blue]

Very true, but what are the chances of them becoming a bit of a nuisance ? ?

What factors are we basing the calculation of the probability of them becomming a nuisance on? Class? Bank Balance? Wage?

Who'd have thought a window cleaner who spends every holiday in disney land florida would be a such a snob.

[Nick]

What's it to you? Would you rather they were on the street?

Not at all! I was merely asking the question of Jon as he has a considerable expertise in this particular area it would appear.

[jon1959]

with ref to the white van, it was aimed at me, Wales-Bales might have thought it funny to mention window cleaners, I replied as that is one of my jobs and i guess he wanted me to reply, but the dig about white vans was aimed at me, as when i moved into my new house, i wasnt allowed to park " commercial Vehicles " on the estate for 5 years due to a covenant on the estate

You have quoted my post and I wasn't aiming it at you. I missed your reference. I was thinking of the Emily Thornberry 'white van scandal' at the time of the 2015 election. 'White van man' was used by the media as short-hand for a certain type of St George's flag waving resident - either a patriotic hero or a nuisance neighbour, depending on which tabloid was using it to score points.

[jon1959]

Out of interest what proportion of these affordable housing tenants actually pay the rent themselves out of money they earn?

I don't know. I don't know what % of social tenants live in 'affordable homes' but I assume it is still a small % as the category (with rents set at 80% of local market rents) was only begun after 2008.

I'm also 3 years out of the loop (early retired) and haven't kept track of the changing numbers.

However, this article from late 2015 gives a fair indication across all social housing in England and Wales:

https://www.theguardian.com/housing-...-england-wales

41% of social renters (council and housing association homes mainly) are in work.
28% of social renters are over 65 and on state pensions.
31% of social renters are therefore of working age but not working (some single parents, some with disabilities or illnesses...)

However, about 80% (3.3m out of 4.1m) of social renters get some housing benefit - so housing benefit (like many other welfare benefits) is supporting workers on low pay. It is even starker in parts of the private rented sector where the benefits system is subsidising landlords.

[Nick]

I don't know. I don't know what % of social tenants live in 'affordable homes' but I assume it is still a small % as the category (with rents set at 80% of local market rents) was only begun after 2008.

I'm also 3 years out of the loop (early retired) and haven't kept track of the changing numbers.

However, this article from late 2015 gives a fair indication across all social housing in England and Wales:

https://www.theguardian.com/housing-...-england-wales

41% of social renters (council and housing association homes mainly) are in work.
28% of social renters are over 65 and on state pensions.

However, about 80% (3,3m out of 4.1m) of social renters get some housing benefit - so housing benefit (like many other welfare benefits) is supporting workers on low pay. It is even starker in parts of the private rented sector where the benefits system is subsidising landlords.

Thank you Jon.

[blue matt]

I know what you mean mate, I once had a window cleaner move in next to me, and he totally lowered the tone of the neighbourhood!

they can do that, especially if they have a white van, it seems people hate them white vans

You have quoted my post and I wasn't aiming it at you. I missed your reference. I was thinking of the Emily Thornberry 'white van scandal' at the time of the 2015 election. 'White van man' was used by the media as short-hand for a certain type of St George's flag waving resident - either a patriotic hero or a nuisance neighbour, depending on which tabloid was using it to score points.

I was just pointing it out, that my post was more of a dig at me, rather than anyone else

[Eric Cartman]

Very true, but what are the chances of them becoming a bit of a nuisance ? ?

I don't know, do you?

[blue matt]

What factors are we basing the calculation of the probability of them becomming a nuisance on? Class? Bank Balance? Wage?

you have missed the obvious, though i guess that was on purpose, a nuisance, you know, playing music really loud all night, shouting at children, swearing, in the case of these old tower blocks, setting fire to the bins under the rubbish shoot, leaving dirty needles on the stairways, sat around at the entrance drinking cans of special brew, I do wonder if you have ever been to these places, as you really have no clue, for such a smart bloke that is

Who'd have thought a window cleaner who spends every holiday in disney land florida would be a such a snob.

a snob ? ? ?

I prefer i am a realist, i have worked on council houses / housing association homes for many a year, i still do when a previous company i worked for is stuck, in a few months i have been asked to run a " refurb " on a small housing association estate, new kitchens and Bathrooms and a new shed, they have yet to meet my wage demands ( but i feel they will )

I have seen the issues with social housing first hand many times, though saying that, i have met some cracking people who have been great, maybe you havent had first hand experience and just feel the need to defend, i dont know

[JDerrida]

I live In a housing association property
It's called Aquila house, falcon drive, Cardiff bay
it's located about 60 seconds from the National Assembly of wales to the right off me. It's a lovey place to live we even have out very on concierge service, cleaners the lot
If anything in the flat breaks I.e lights,boilers, windows etc we call the housing association and they come out and fix it
I pay £460 a month for a 2 bed and that's with water rates included
I think my council tax is £116 a month
Me and my Mrs work full time

I drive a Mercedes

Life's great

Out of interest, on what basis were you granted a housing association property ?

How can you afford a merc ?

Have your circumstances changed since you were granted this property ?

If so, are you that seriously on the breadline that you still need social housing.

By staying there, you are denying unfortunate soul the opportunity to live there.

[JDerrida]

We are all kinda NIMBYs at heart even if we see the need. If Donna was ringing up with the kind of stories we have heard in this thread then I could have some sympathy because it isn't fair that people have to deal with shit.

As far as I am aware, Donna's new neighbours haven't done anything to her other than exist.

Humble, genuine people tend to attribute their success and prosperity down to many different things including luck. Donna seems to think she is better than everyone else and did it all herself.

Why do you believe Donna thinks she is better than EVERYONE else ? That's an absolute generalisation which is prevalent to a lot of left wing individual's on here.

How do you know that Donna ( ? and her partner ) didn't make the money to afford to live there ? Another generalisation.

What we have is a truly appalling tragedy. The responsibility to re-home is down to Kensington Council and to a lesser extent other councils in the UK.

It is NOT the responsibility of Donna.

If she has a mortgage on her property and if those who need to be re-homed stay indefinitely, would you expect her property value to increase or decline ? It could lead her into negative equity, or possibly delay her retirement.

Why should she shoulder the responsibility directly ?

It needs to be set out clearly that it is a temporary measure for, perhaps no more than a month, by which time other councils should have been able to help.

Who pays for the social housing in such luxurious properties. You could house 10 - 20 times the amount of people for the same price as one family or individual in the luxurious property.

Think of it this way, for all of you who save up all year to go to Porthcawl, Spain, Florida, etc. How would you feel if someone in social housing was gifted an all expenses holiday to some of the expensive places on the planet ?

I re-iterate, it's the most appalling tragedy, with throwbacks to Bradford Fire Disaster, the Twin Towers and the Brazilian, Joelma disaster that has often featured in workplace fire lectures.
Tragic and all must responsibly be helped.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Why do you believe Donna thinks she is better than EVERYONE else ? That's an absolute generalisation which is prevalent to a lot of left wing individual's on here.

How do you know that Donna ( ? and her partner ) didn't make the money to afford to live there ? Another generalisation.

What we have is a truly appalling tragedy. The responsibility to re-home is down to Kensington Council and to a lesser extent other councils in the UK.

It is NOT the responsibility of Donna.

If she has a mortgage on her property and if those who need to be re-homed stay indefinitely, would you expect her property value to increase or decline ? It could lead her into negative equity, or possibly delay her retirement.

Why should she shoulder the responsibility directly ?

It needs to be set out clearly that it is a temporary measure for, perhaps no more than a month, by which time other councils should have been able to help.

Who pays for the social housing in such luxurious properties. You could house 10 - 20 times the amount of people for the same price as one family or individual in the luxurious property.

Think of it this way, for all of you who save up all year to go to Porthcawl, Spain, Florida, etc. How would you feel if someone in social housing was gifted an all expenses holiday to some of the expensive places on the planet ?

I re-iterate, it's the most appalling tragedy, with throwbacks to Bradford Fire Disaster, the Twin Towers and the Brazilian, Joelma disaster that has often featured in workplace fire lectures.
Tragic and all must responsibly be helped.

Why should residents be forced to leave the area for a fire that wasn't their own fault and could have been prevented?

[Sgt. Pepper]

This is an interesting and revealing thread.

I wonder if there are any lazy caricatures, cliches or sneering put-downs we have missed? Surely scope to do a bit more around white vans, travellers and 'closed curtains'?

Of course some 'social tenants' are an anti-social nightmare. So are some owner occupiers, and private landlords and their (often transient) tenants. Of course there are more likely to be lifestyles associated with low incomes amongst social tenants. But as a former council tenant myself and someone who has known thousands of council tenants through my work over decades, I have also come across some of the hardest working and house proud people ever in council homes.

After the trauma and terror of the Grenfell fire I wish every tenant (maybe some Right To Buy owners too?) the best in their new social home. All the best as well to Donna if she decides to move to some other bubble of expensive exclusivity.

Great post.

[JDerrida]

Why should residents be forced to leave the area for a fire that wasn't their own fault and could have been prevented?

Because of limitations to appropriate social housing in the area.

It happened next door to my late mother's property. Single lady had 3 children, 2 with life limiting conditions. Over a period of 10 years, those two poor souls died. The other son had moved out a number of years previously.

After a period of time, Labour controlled Cardiff City Council moved her to a smaller property and a large family moved in from away.

It's a needs based situation.

A number of the survivors may have come from other continents to live 'in this country', was it specified they 'had' to live in Kensington ?

Where it's possible to stay in appropriate social housing in Kensington, then they should stay in the area.

I would look at the needs of the individuals. Those who are working, in my opinion should be given priority to stay in the area. If not they MUST be given a new life and job in a new area.

There are simply no easy answers.

To make Donna some sort of scapegoat is grossly unfair.