English born Welsh players

[Rhiw-Blue]

The essence of international football SHOULD be about determining which country has the greatest depth of talent at any point in time and not who can convince players to pull on their shirt because of a tenuous link.
The rules are wrong not the countries exploiting it.
If Germany (for example!!) win a World Cup with 11 foreigners in their squad doesn't it cheapen the achievement, what has it proved?
I just don't see the point in international football with the way the rules are openly exploited

[G rangetown Blue]

Oh, your point on Vokes is completely invalid by the way, he played for Wales' Under 21s at 17, an age where he would still have had chances to play for England at any level, he instead committed to Wales and has showed a lot more commitment than a lot of "proper Welshman" (a certain Mr.Giggs springs to mind)

Williams has admitted to supporting England when he was a kid and of course he did, but now he seems himself as fully Welsh and has raised his children as such, nationality is more than whichever hospital you happen to have been born in

I said they would obviously rather play for England. Surely you're not doubting that?

They are denying Welsh players (some who only qualify for Wales) a cap for their country, it's not right however you want to dress it up.

Ryan Giggs played every meaningful game for Wales he could. He is the most decorated Welsh player in history, one of the most decorated in the whole World, and managed his career perfectly. The fact that he never showed up for some dead rubber games, or money making friedlies was probably instigated by the MUFC management, and they were probably right.

[splott parker]

The essence of international football SHOULD be about determining which country has the greatest depth of talent at any point in time and not who can convince players to pull on their shirt because of a tenuous link.
The rules are wrong not the countries exploiting it.
If Germany (for example!!) win a World Cup with 11 foreigners in their squad doesn't it cheapen the achievement, what has it proved?
I just don't see the point in international football with the way the rules are openly exploited

The Germans use non German born players.

[blue matt]

As long as Players have a link to Wales ( grandparents are ok with me, look at Vinnie Jones, proud as hell to play for his granddads country ) as long as they commit and give 100% then its fine with me

I have said on here before, My oldest daughter was born In Bath, but only sees herself as Welsh, Her mum ( my wife ) is English aswell, but she is only ever going to be Welsh, nothing to discuss with her

We are heading towards a potential issue with her Netball, we have met England U21 coaches ( though they do not pick the U17 sqaud ) and they have made it clear they have hopes for her making the grade ( though she is aiming for Team GB ) but she will not entertain the English setup, she only sees herself playing in the green and red of Wales

Now i guess some will see a issue with her playing for Wales, afterall she was born in England, Not sure we will take much notice of them

[surge]

An Englishman playing in a Welsh shirt would not work at all as they wouldn't be able to buy into the togetherness and pride in their country this team is built on. We don't have a team of mercenaries, we have a team who have become Welsh via birth or otherwise. Any question of this is a cheap shot or attempt to undermine our game.

Should international football do away with the grandparent rule? It is a debate to have but it should not be focussed on our team or our system.

[G rangetown Blue]

The Germans use non German born players.

They do, but a least the players CHOSE to play for Germany instead of their own country, which is a little different.

Williams for example was never given the choice, England never wanted him.

[Rhiw-Blue]

The Germans use non German born players.

They are one of the worst (or best) at it.

[joecity]

You completely missed my point.
Why should an Englishman, rejected by England, play for Wales instead of a Welshman?
It's just selfish and egotistical, and morally wrong.
A few players (recent e.g. Turner and Shawcross), have politely declined, even though they 'qualify' they are not Welsh, and therefore did the decent thing.

Still disagree sorry. Doubt Vokes and Williams were approached by England, couldn't care if they were. Turner n Shawcross either weren't or feel 100 English. Good for them. My old mans Dad is from Sierra Leon. He was born in Barry and is as welsh as they come, point is you are where you are now. If you feel Welsh then so be it. That is what you are. If Welsh born player's miss out to a dual player then they need to get better. Of course for me they would all speak Welsh and Be born of the Hen Wlad but they are not. As long as they commit and buzz of it i'm in.

[G rangetown Blue]

As long as Players have a link to Wales ( grandparents are ok with me, look at Vinnie Jones, proud as hell to play for his granddads country ) as long as they commit and give 100% then its fine with me

I have said on here before, My oldest daughter was born In Bath, but only sees herself as Welsh, Her mum ( my wife ) is English aswell, but she is only ever going to be Welsh, nothing to discuss with her

We are heading towards a potential issue with her Netball, we have met England U21 coaches ( though they do not pick the U17 sqaud ) and they have made it clear they have hopes for her making the grade ( though she is aiming for Team GB ) but she will not entertain the English setup, she only sees herself playing in the green and red of Wales

Now i guess some will see a issue with her playing for Wales, afterall she was born in England, Not sure we will take much notice of them

It's a little different when players have a choice, and choose who to play for.
But when it's obvious they are not Welsh ( dodgy grandparents birth cert!) then they should not be considered, it's not fair on the Welsh players missing out on caps for THEIR country.

[G rangetown Blue]

Still disagree sorry. Doubt Vokes and Williams were approached by England, couldn't care if they were. Turner n Shawcross either weren't or feel 100 English. Good for them. My old mans Dad is from Sierra Leon. He was born in Barry and is as welsh as they come, point is you are where you are now. If you feel Welsh then so be it. That is what you are. If Welsh born player's miss out to a dual player then they need to get better. Of course for me they would all speak Welsh and Be born of the Hen Wlad but they are not. As long as they commit and buzz of it i'm in.

Of course they weren't approached by England, that's why they play for us.

[joecity]

It's a little different when players have a choice, and choose who to play for.
But when it's obvious they are not Welsh ( dodgy grandparents birth cert!) then they should not be considered, it's not fair on the Welsh players missing out on caps for THEIR country.

I do get what you're saying my friend and you state you're case well. I just don't agree. It used to wind me up about Welsh people not speaking Welsh. Not anymore. I will Give you Prince Charles.. John Redwood trying to mime the anthem. Wrth gwrs, football wise can't we just get on the same page?

[joecity]

Of course they weren't approached by England, that's why they play for us.

I meant Turner n the donkey mate

[G rangetown Blue]

They are one of the worst (or best) at it.

All the Polish players who play for Germany, could have played for Poland if they wanted. The English players in the Welsh team could not have played for England. That's the difference.

[joecity]

All the Polish players who play for Germany, could have played for Poland if they wanted. The English players in the Welsh team could not have played for England. That's the difference.

They could have though. They didn't. It's a choice. They could have held out like Turner, Shawcross n co the other way around and maybe Never made it. They play for Wales. I'm glad. That's the choice they made and I bet not a one would change it.

[severncity]

He is right though The first time Ashely Williams came to Wales was to play for the national team. Im sure its the case for many others (i mean if only one grandparent was from an area).

Durham is simply doing what any Welshman has done in the past with the Plastic Paddy's, English Cricket team, Lennox Lewis, Mo farah, Gregg Rusedski, etc....

Michael Owen has never lived in England. Apart from his brief time in Madrid he has always lived in Wales. I believe that when he played for Newcastle Utd he commuted by helicopter to Tyneside. In this article http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport...-could-4749253
he claims that he lived in Newcastle and that the helicopter was for his family to visit him. He also seems to think that Hawarden is in north west England!

“My wife in particular wanted to come back to England.”

And with a big family back in the North West, Owen explained his motives for why he snapped up a chopper during his United days.

What a f@cking tosser.

[G rangetown Blue]

They could have though. They didn't. It's a choice. They could have held out like Turner, Shawcross n co the other way around and maybe Never made it. They play for Wales. I'm glad. That's the choice they made and I bet not a one would change it.

The English players in the Welsh team never had a choice to play for England, and would obviously choose England if they had.

[joecity]

What you mean they never had a choice? They are English according to you., why wouldn't they have a choice? You lost me now my man.

[joecity]

What you mean they never had a choice? They are English according to you., why wouldn't they have a choice? You lost me now my man.

Soz mate. I see. Chance you mean. Who's to say that either. If Delph can get a game then who know's

[Rhiw-Blue]

All the Polish players who play for Germany, could have played for Poland if they wanted. The English players in the Welsh team could not have played for England. That's the difference.

For you

I have this strange notion that a Polish player or Turkish player should play for their country of origin

[Ianto13]

It's also crazy that Michael Owen who grew up in Wales and played for North Wales Schoolboys but as was born in Chester Hospital like a lot of North Wales babies he wasn't eligible to play for Wales as his parents are English?

[Pearcey3]

My thoughts on this are (very) well documented.

If a player isn't good enough to be picked for His own country, then why would he / should he, take the place of a Welsh player in their national team.

Obviously, Williams and Vokes would love to play for England, but were not good enough, so (some might say) selfishly play for Wales.

I understand the point but Williams has proven himself to be good enough to play for England. Let’s be honest Williams chose to play for Wales at a time the national team was a mess. So I don’t think he has been selfish. He has been far more committed than someone like Giggs.

[J R Hartley]

All the Polish players who play for Germany, could have played for Poland if they wanted. The English players in the Welsh team could not have played for England. That's the difference.

There’s no difference, youre still contradicting yourself. The Polish players are still stopping a German playing for THEIR country as you put it.

[joecity]

understand the point but Williams has proven himself to be good enough to play for England. Let’s be honest Williams chose to play for Wales at a time the national team was a mess. So I don’t think he has been selfish. He has been far more committed than someone like Giggs.

Cant y Cant.

[J R Hartley]

It's also crazy that Michael Owen who grew up in Wales and played for North Wales Schoolboys but as was born in Chester Hospital like a lot of North Wales babies he wasn't eligible to play for Wales as his parents are English?

Not really, he’s English

[Rhiw-Blue]

It's also crazy that Michael Owen who grew up in Wales and played for North Wales Schoolboys but as was born in Chester Hospital like a lot of North Wales babies he wasn't eligible to play for Wales as his parents are English?

So, he's English born with English parents, represented England from Under 15's all the way through to the senior side.
Not the best example of craziness