Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

What a load of rubbish. You actually think that the Labour government pre 2010 have nothing to do with the state the country is in now ?. They spent billions of pounds of money they didn't have, which our children and childrens children will still be paying for in 50-100 years time. The country was almost bankrupt in 2010 and Corbyns answer to all this is to propose spending and borrowing more in future. How do you know who votes for the Conservatives anyway. There are many of working class and vulnerable people who must have voted for them in 2010 and since in order for them to get in. Corbyn and Mcdonnell are basically communists who dont give a fig about the ordinary people of this country and are only interested in lining their own pockets and the pockets of the people who are backing them (the Corbynistas). The richest and most powerful people in far left/communist places like Russia and China are the leaders, whilst most of the prople live in abject poverty.

Rubbish , the poor and disadvantaged are the least likely to vote , many are not even on the electoral register !!

As for spending money we didn't have , you have been reading too many right wing newspapers

Corbyn may not be everybody's cup of tea but he has shown there is a demand for democratic socialism in this country

People have had enough of market led capitalism and the economics of greed

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Sludge. Your hatred of the Conservatives is legendary on here, and I’m not disagreeing with you, but if 90% of the wealth in the UK is owned by 10% of the people, how come they are in power most of the time, and when Labour are in charge, why do things never seem to get better? After all, if Labour did a better, fairer job of running the country then they’d surely stay in power longer?
They are as bad as each other.

We have never had a true socialist Labour government

One day I hope we will

[I.8.POLITICAL.CORRECTNESS]

We have never had a proper socialist Labour government , that's why , Blair was Thatcher in a suit

being a youngster compared to yourself sludge i have only known 1 labour government mate
witch was as you point out Blair and Brown

wasn't there socialist labour governments in the past then ?

[I.8.POLITICAL.CORRECTNESS]

Rubbish , the poor and disadvantaged are the least likely to vote , many are not even on the electoral register !!

As for spending money we didn't have , you have been reading too many right wing newspapers

Corbyn may not be everybody's cup of tea but he has shown there is a demand for democratic socialism in this country

People have had enough of market led capitalism and the economics of greed

but why are the poor and disadvantaged less likely to vote in your opinion ?
how do you define poor and disadvantaged ?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

but why are the poor and disadvantaged less likely to vote in your opinion ?
how do you define poor and disadvantaged ?

Because they feel powerless, have mental health problems , are homeless or badly housed

I define poor and disadvantaged according to Institute of fiscal studies data and information from organisations like the child poverty action group

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

being a youngster compared to yourself sludge i have only known 1 labour government mate
witch was as you point out Blair and Brown

wasn't there socialist labour governments in the past then ?

Brown and Blair were not socialists , Brown was a good man who made some poor decisions , Blair was a Tory

There have been labour governments in the past who were leaning towards democratic socialism but didn't quite get there

Harold Wilson was a good bloke

[I.8.POLITICAL.CORRECTNESS]

Because they feel powerless, have mental health problems , are homeless or badly housed

I define poor and disadvantaged according to Institute of fiscal studies data and information from organisations like the child poverty action group

i don't know how u can compare mental health issues with being poor i cant tie that one together sludge mate
and powerless there are times when everyone of us feels powerless
I'm sorry mate i think you have gone so far above my head I'm walking under it lol
can you break it down please

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

i don't know how u can compare mental health issues with being poor i cant tie that one together sludge mate
and powerless there are times when everyone of us feels powerless
I'm sorry mate i think you have gone so far above my head I'm walking under it lol
can you break it down please

People with mental health problems are just about the most disadvantaged in society ......they are more likely to be out of work than any other group in society and amongst disabled people are those most likely to rely on benefits .......that's poor

And you may feel powerless from time to time and you are right everybody does , but the poor and disadvantaged and vulnerable feel powerless and excluded from society every fecking day

Of people with long term health conditions like diabetes , lung problems , multiple sclerosis , heart disease etc , people with severe and enduring mental health problems are the least likely to be in work due to stigma and discrimination ........they are poor and powerless and often need a great deal of advocacy and support to live

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Eric didnt know you could predict the past - you have no way of knowing what the conservatives would have done

Osborne says he would have spent the same as Labour and backed their spending plans in opposition. That seems conclusive enough to me. Now had he said he wouldn't have spent the same and attacked Labour's spending plans in opposition then there are grounds to suggest things would have turned out differently. Seems logical enough.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I would that counter that a little, the brand new facility over in Llandough for mental health is very good and certainly meets the needs of people in the area with mental health problems.

THE issue is people who refuse treatment and instead self medicate using drugs / alcohol. It is of little wonder they become homeless - as they have refused help (for any number of reasons), their employer will eventually sack them and the mortgage company repossess etc. I had a close friend who luckily has an understanding employer - he recently decided to not take his medication - and went back on the booze - he was sectioned (again) last month and is currently back on the medication.

What people with mental health problems need is the help of the support / crash team to call on - when they have lapsed. Once they become homeless, then they almost become contactless to the authorities, which is a spiral that is hard to break free from - unless they are forced to detox - which is not possible unless they are sectioned first.

You could build them a brand new house if you want but it wont help their addiction issues

Well I have been in the brand new unit in llandough as a patient and my experience is that the mental health services in Bridgend were far better , I am in a support group and many are not impressed with the new unit

Have you been admitted ?

By crash team you mean the crisis team

Addiction and self medication is a very complex issue , but that's beside the point , people with mental health problems are amongst the poorest and most excluded in society , whichever way you want to look at it

[jon1959]

What a load of rubbish. You actually think that the Labour government pre 2010 have nothing to do with the state the country is in now ?. They spent billions of pounds of money they didn't have, which our children and childrens children will still be paying for in 50-100 years time. The country was almost bankrupt in 2010 and Corbyns answer to all this is to propose spending and borrowing more in future. How do you know who votes for the Conservatives anyway. There are many of working class and vulnerable people who must have voted for them in 2010 and since in order for them to get in. Corbyn and Mcdonnell are basically communists who dont give a fig about the ordinary people of this country and are only interested in lining their own pockets and the pockets of the people who are backing them (the Corbynistas). The richest and most powerful people in far left/communist places like Russia and China are the leaders, whilst most of the prople live in abject poverty.

'What a load of rubbish', to borrow from you.

If the UK was 'almost bankrupt' in 2010 (defined as the government being unable to pay all its debts immediately if they were all called in?) then that was true for most western governments - certainly the USA. But that technical definition is not useful or very illuminating. The official UK debt to GDP ratio in 2010 was under 70% - lower than many other western countries, and much lower than in earlier decades. If you add in the so-called 'hidden' debts or liabilities then that % rises steeply, but so it does for most other countries too. Most of the debate about unofficial debt and liabilities is so politicised that it is hard to find any figures to trust - but in any case it is not a new phenomenon.

As this piece describes, if the UK was broke in 2010 it had been broke for centuries! In other words it's a scare-mongering headline with no value.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...tain-not-broke

Your solution to defecit and low growth seems to be cuts. The alternative strategy of investing to promote growth and greater national income through government capital projects (funded by low interest borrowing) is a century old and has worked all around the world. It may not fit with the Thatcherite 'corner shop' model of economics, but then the Chancellor of the Exchequer doesn't keep the assets and revenues of the UK in a shoe box under his bed either. Labour has been consistent in advocating a version of Keynsian economics to invest and build our way out of trouble - and has a lot of popular and academic support for its plans.

Yes, many working people voted Tory in 2010 - and 2015 - and every other election where they had a vote. They always have. A lot of people in elections vote against their own interests for a lot of complicated reasons. In my opinion it has historically been down to The Sun, The Mail and an unhealthy deference. Just maybe a few crunched the numbers and read the manifestos and thought Thatcher or Cameron were the answer. My 'out-laws' are an example.

Corbyn and McDonnell are not communists. They are left social democrats. They are also - obviously - amongst that small group of MPs who have consistently not lined their own pockets (see expenses). You are entitled to disagree with them and detest their politics, but the personal attack on them and their motives is pathetic.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

'What a load of rubbish', to borrow from you.

If the UK was 'almost bankrupt' in 2010 (defined as the government being unable to pay all its debts immediately if they were all called in?) then that was true for most western governments - certainly the USA. But that technical definition is not useful or very illuminating. The official UK debt to GDP ratio in 2010 was under 70% - lower than many other western countries, and much lower than in earlier decades. If you add in the so-called 'hidden' debts or liabilities then that % rises steeply, but so it does for most other countries too. Most of the debate about unofficial debt and liabilities is so politicised that it is hard to find any figures to trust - but in any case it is not a new phenomenon.

As this piece describes, if the UK was broke in 2010 it had been broke for centuries! In other words it's a scare-mongering headline with no value.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...tain-not-broke

Your solution to defecit and low growth seems to be cuts. The alternative strategy of investing to promote growth and greater national income through government capital projects (funded by low interest borrowing) is a century old and has worked all around the world. It may not fit with the Thatcherite 'corner shop' model of economics, but then the Chancellor of the Exchequer doesn't keep the assets and revenues of the UK in a shoe box under his bed either. Labour has been consistent in advocating a version of Keynsian economics to invest and build our way out of trouble - and has a lot of popular and academic support for its plans.

Yes, many working people voted Tory in 2010 - and 2015 - and every other election where they had a vote. They always have. A lot of people in elections vote against their own interests for a lot of complicated reasons. In my opinion it has historically been down to The Sun, The Mail and an unhealthy deference. Just maybe a few crunched the numbers and read the manifestos and thought thatcher or Cameron were the answer.

Corbyn and McDonnell are not communists. They are left social democrats. They are also - obviously - amongst that small group of MPs who have consistently not lined their own pockets (see expenses). You are entitled to disagree with them and detest their politics, but the personal attack on them and their motives is pathetic.

Well said

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Well I have been in the brand new unit in llandough as a patient and my experience is that the mental health services in Bridgend were far better , I am in a support group and many are not impressed with the new unit

Have you been admitted ?

By crash team you mean the crisis team

Addiction and self medication is a very complex issue , but that's beside the point , people with mental health problems are amongst the poorest and most excluded in society , whichever way you want to look at it

There are fewer beds in llandough than whitchurch had

The staff in the new unit are overworked and vary in their attitude towards those with mental health problems , the initial assessment team were ok but once you are transferred to a ward it's a different matter , some of the nurses were kind and caring , others sat there and ignored people in distress

The unit may be newly built but it certainly has many faults ......

How do you know it certainly meets the needs of people in the local area ?

What facts do you base this on ?........I don't mean a few stories about so and so

The patient advocacy service was dealing with several complaints when I was in there

The crisis team has to cover Cardiff, penarth , Barry , llantwit major, cowbridge and the rural vale reaching right up to Bridgend ......it's the role of the crisis team to prevent people going into hospital in the first place , I know of a young woman of 19 who was seriously ill and needed to be in hospital yet had to wait 24 hours for the crisis team to get back to her

What are you basing your comments .......the new unit certainly meets the needs of people in the area ......on ?

The evidence from service users , voluntary sector organisations and mental health advocates is not in line with your statement

[life on mars]

Well said

Yes well positioned , yet I still don't think as a labour voter more subsidized industry , borrowing , repealing of union law ,is the answer to our woes .

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Yes well positioned , yet I still don't think as a labour voter more subsidized industry , borrowing , repealing of union law ,is the answer to our woes .

I do

Nationalise gas , water , electricity , the trains , buses

By spending money on house building .....and I mean both private and council housing , and giving the workers more rights we will be a more civilised and fairer country

And people will still be able to afford the latest apple iphone for £1000 if they wish

Never confuse communism with democratic socialism

[Pearcey3]

I do

Nationalise gas , water , electricity , the trains , buses

By spending money on house building .....and I mean both private and council housing , and giving the workers more rights we will be a more civilised and fairer country

And people will still be able to afford the latest apple iphone for £1000 if they wish

Never confuse communism with democratic socialism

Agreed.
Also a great post by Jon.

We need to get away from all this talk of austerity. Under the Tories the well off had tax cuts. It was targeted austerity aimed at the weaker in society. Bloody disgusting.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Agreed.
Also a great post by Jon.

We need to get away from all this talk of austerity. Under the Tories the well off had tax cuts. It was targeted austerity aimed at the weaker in society. Bloody disgusting.

Indeed , fecking disgraceful , the weakest in society can't fight back

That's why we need a safety net to care for them because you can bet your arse the conservatives won't

They will leave that to the neo con policies of the capitalist market place , where greed is good , money rules , the strong survive and scraps are thrown at the vulnerable

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

PM sent

Read and replied to

[William Treseder]

I remember drinking in the model inn one night yrs ago and about a dozen down on their luck types who were sleeping rough had come in for a pint.
I didn’t go down well when the barman rang the last orders bell and shouted “come on you lot. Haven’t you got homes to go to?”.

[Henry Hill]

Sludge you are living in fantasy land

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Sludge you are living in fantasy land

The people have had enough of the free market and rampant capitalism

The house of cards will soon collapse

[Vimto]

I remember drinking in the model inn one night yrs ago and about a dozen down on their luck types who were sleeping rough had come in for a pint.
I didn’t go down well when the barman rang the last orders bell and shouted “come on you lot. Haven’t you got homes to go to?”.

I used to drink in the Model Inn, years ago.
I hope you never tried it on with me.

[Vimto]

The people have had enough of the free market and rampant capitalism

The house of cards will soon collapse

I think Netflix have pulled it.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I think Netflix have pulled it.

Was it any good ?

[dembethewarrior]

I would that counter that a little, the brand new facility over in Llandough for mental health is very good and certainly meets the needs of people in the area with mental health problems.

THE issue is people who refuse treatment and instead self medicate using drugs / alcohol. It is of little wonder they become homeless - as they have refused help (for any number of reasons), their employer will eventually sack them and the mortgage company repossess etc. I had a close friend who luckily has an understanding employer - he recently decided to not take his medication - and went back on the booze - he was sectioned (again) last month and is currently back on the medication.

What people with mental health problems need is the help of the support / crash team to call on - when they have lapsed. Once they become homeless, then they almost become contactless to the authorities, which is a spiral that is hard to break free from - unless they are forced to detox - which is not possible unless they are sectioned first.

You could build them a brand new house if you want but it wont help their addiction issues

You come across like a politician who's never seen any issues like this face to face..

(Apologies if wrong, but the way that's written...)

Edit..didnt get to the part about the friend as the bit before kind of had me screaming "politician"

I do apologise.