FT: CROATIA 2 - 1 ENGLAND. Match thread

[Der Kaiser]

I can see what Henderson brings to the side in terms of balance, England look far worse when Dier is playing instead of him, but playing both Lingard & Alli makes little sense to me (you can throw Sterling in there as well). I'm not sure the 3 at the back worked as well for them as has been made out

That three at the back system with the full backs is lovely when you play against teams that generally don't attack down the flanks, or have creativity (See Tunisia, Panama, and Colombia w/o Rodriguez and Sweden.. and they struggled in two of those games!) but the two times they play teams with creativity, and players who can actually play the ball, they lose. Flawed system, that got overhyped by some ok performances against below average teams. I look forward to the next tournament, as I really do not think this style will work once teams have looked at it properly. As for Lingard, and Alli, well they better hope Phil Foden and Jadon Sancho get proper game time, the pair of them are garbage against quality opponents. Mexico must be kicking themselves they were so sloppy against Sweden.

[the other bob wilson]

That midfield three of Alli/Henderson/Lingard has a little bit of not much at all.

Do you think it was a midfield three? It always struck me as a midfield one - Jordan Henderson was faced with an impossible workload once England started playing against sides who were contenders to win the tournament and I presumed one of the more attacking players would be left out to accommodate a "proper" central midfielder. In Southgate's defence, he's hardly spoiled for choice in that part of the field (although Der Kaiser is right to point out that may well change in the not too distant future) as is proved by how close Jake Livermore got to making the final twenty three - would Aaron Ramsey and/or Joe Allen have started last night if they were English, I reckon they would have, but possibly Southgate was so wedded to the system he played that I'm wrong?

Having tipped France and England to progress against opponents that were more tired than them, I was congratulating myself halfway through the second half for getting things right. I don't agree with the argument that Croatia were England's equal, or better, in the first half and I thought they were pretty comfortable until they conceded the equaliser, but once that went in there was only one team in it. Huge credit to Croatia for being the fitter, bolder and committed side for the last hour of the game, but Modric and Rakitic and the rest were helped because they suddenly had so much more room in the middle of the park as England's lack of specialists in there finally told against them.

As for England, I was surprised to feel quite sorry for them at the end, but that didn't last too long because, in essence, what was being said about them by some beforehand (things would look different when they faced a team of true quality) was proven to be the case - England were probably one of the weakest teams to have made a World Cup Semi Final in truth.

[noodles]

Despite everything that has been said about this English squad, at the end of the day, they were just not good enough, end of! Especially when they played against a team like Croatia who played with more drive, ambition, and quality. I agree with a lot the other bob wilson has posted but the most significant part of his post for me and surely for a lot of others was: England were probably one of the weakest teams to have made a World Cup Semi Final in truth.

[thehumblegringo]

Do you think it was a midfield three? It always struck me as a midfield one - Jordan Henderson was faced with an impossible workload once England started playing against sides who were contenders to win the tournament and I presumed one of the more attacking players would be left out to accommodate a "proper" central midfielder. In Southgate's defence, he's hardly spoiled for choice in that part of the field (although Der Kaiser is right to point out that may well change in the not too distant future) as is proved by how close Jake Livermore got to making the final twenty three - would Aaron Ramsey and/or Joe Allen have started last night if they were English, I reckon they would have, but possibly Southgate was so wedded to the system he played that I'm wrong?

Having tipped France and England to progress against opponents that were more tired than them, I was congratulating myself halfway through the second half for getting things right. I don't agree with the argument that Croatia were England's equal, or better, in the first half and I thought they were pretty comfortable until they conceded the equaliser, but once that went in there was only one team in it. Huge credit to Croatia for being the fitter, bolder and committed side for the last hour of the game, but Modric and Rakitic and the rest were helped because they suddenly had so much more room in the middle of the park as England's lack of specialists in there finally told against them.

As for England, I was surprised to feel quite sorry for them at the end, but that didn't last too long because, in essence, what was being said about them by some beforehand (things would look different when they faced a team of true quality) was proven to be the case - England were probably one of the weakest teams to have made a World Cup Semi Final in truth.

The midfield was a definite game changer. I think Southgate was right to stick with the tactic that has worked so far this world cup in playing with pace in behind Kane on the counter.

A bit of composure in front of goal in a few occasions would have put England into the final, but in truth the problem runs deeper than that. For whatever reason England never ever produce midfielders who can control the tempo of a match. If they had a Xavi or a Pirlo in their ranks last night they would have won the game but they tend to play with one pace and that is panic mode.

There have been some encouraging signs from an English point of view and they have centre backs who are far more comfortable on the ball now and won't give the ball straight back to the opposition which you can't do at the very top level, however I commend Southgate in that he seems to (unlike the English pundits) have his finger on the pulse and his comment about "we are where we are" indicated to me that he knew they were currently punching above their weight.

There are definitely some good players on the horizon for England to supplement a promising squad but the truth is unless their given opportunity to flourish in the cut throat premier league they'll never reach their potential.

[bobh]

Love the way the media are trying to put a positive spin on this defeat this morning!

[lardy]

Do you think it was a midfield three? It always struck me as a midfield one -

Yeah that's pretty much what I'm getting at. Alli plays off Kane at Spurs but Sterling is already in that position, albeit a little wider. I don't really know what Lingards best position is. Maybe all three play between the lines and that's too many. I made the very easy prediction that good midfielders would destroy that England midfield and so it was.

I don't rate Dier that highly but he should have been in for Lingard to give some kind of stability and base, particularly with a back three that can easily get stretched and leave holes.

In the past England have been too regimented, but this team is too naive. A lot of flair and creativity but nothing produced and most of the goals were set pieces.

Away from tactics, I think a lack of big game experience did for them. Henderson in a CL final - who else has played really big semis or finals? Has Pickford (who had an excellent tournament) even played in Europe? Up against Modric with four Champs League winners medals.

[the other bob wilson]

The midfield was a definite game changer. I think Southgate was right to stick with the tactic that has worked so far this world cup in playing with pace in behind Kane on the counter.

A bit of composure in front of goal in a few occasions would have put England into the final, but in truth the problem runs deeper than that. For whatever reason England never ever produce midfielders who can control the tempo of a match. If they had a Xavi or a Pirlo in their ranks last night they would have won the game but they tend to play with one pace and that is panic mode.

There have been some encouraging signs from an English point of view and they have centre backs who are far more comfortable on the ball now and won't give the ball straight back to the opposition which you can't do at the very top level, however I commend Southgate in that he seems to (unlike the English pundits) have his finger on the pulse and his comment about "we are where we are" indicated to me that he knew they were currently punching above their weight.

There are definitely some good players on the horizon for England to supplement a promising squad but the truth is unless their given opportunity to flourish in the cut throat premier league they'll never reach their potential.

Completely agree with this, as, incidentally, does Harry Redknapp who sounded doubtful though as to whether it would happen - truth is, managers like Arri are the reason there's a problem because, from memory, he was hardly the sort who would only resort to splashing the cash once he had given the best young players at whatever club he was with a chance to prove themselves in the senior team first.

[bobh]

On BBC this morning (didn't see who was talking) -
the rest of the world "are scared" of how England are developing as a football team.
They're going to win the next tournament(s)

[The Bloop]

On BBC this morning (didn't see who was talking) -
the rest of the world "are scared" of how England are developing as a football team.
They're going to win the next tournament(s)

Bigging them up already for the next 2 tournaments which only means one thing - getting knocked out in the group stages.

[BLUETIT]

Love the way the media are trying to put a positive spin on this defeat this morning!

With all the praise they are getting, you would think they played great football and were unlucky.

They scraped past Tunisia, with a 91st minute goal, then they needed a pelanty to draw with a depleted Colombia, if the Swede's would have attacked 'um, instead of trying to play "tippy tappy", they would have put 'um under pressure.

Then, the first time they come up against any kind of side, they lose.

Sterling for all his running about, i don't think he created one chance, the cheat, also known as Deli Ali, scored a header my 9 year old grand-daughter could have put in the net.

Me thinks, they are talking and thinking above themselves.

[Des Parrot]

It's all a bit tetchy at work!

I only mentioned that the ref. had a good game exept for the pelanty that Lovren could / should have had, apparently I'm the only person in the world who thinks that way!

I need to be elsewhere until they've cooled off (a couple of weeks maybe?)

[bobh]

Bigging them up already for the next 2 tournaments which only means one thing - getting knocked out in the group stages.

Or failing to qualify.

[BLUETIT]

It's all a bit tetchy at work!

I only mentioned that the ref. had a good game exept for the pelanty that Lovren could / should have had, apparently I'm the only person in the world who thinks that way!

I need to be elsewhere until they've cooled off (a couple of weeks maybe?)

Wind them up with Pickford's tackle

Ball first, man after, Grizzly got a pelanty for that in Australia game.

Anywhere else on the pitch and that's a free kick.

[Gnojek]

Wind them up with Pickford's tackle

Ball first, man after, Grizzly got a pelanty for that in Australia game.

Anywhere else on the pitch and that's a free kick.

......and then Pickford goading Mandzukic when he was lying hurt on the floor. Very classy.

[thehumblegringo]

'Underestimated' Croatia stars twist the knife after beating England via @OnefootballEN. Read it here:

https://1.ftb.al/IICZQdNiuO

[bobh]

'Underestimated' Croatia stars twist the knife after beating England via @OnefootballEN. Read it here:

https://1.ftb.al/IICZQdNiuO

Love it!

[jamieccfc]

......and then Pickford goading Mandzukic when he was lying hurt on the floor. Very classy.

am i the only one who thought that tackle was terrible and should've been a penalty (anywhere else on the pitch and it could well have been a red card imo)

[BLUETIT]

am i the only one who thought that tackle was terrible and should've been a penalty (anywhere else on the pitch and it could well have been a red card imo)

See posts 26/28/29, we all know it was a defo pelanty as well

[goats]

Don't even think England dominated in the first half, especially not in the manner that is being made out. Croatia were miles better than England from the start of the second half, in fact, any England performance this tournament. Kane will get away with that miss as he is the golden boy, but truth be told, that lost them the game. Hope Croatia do France.

Kane proved his is not world class last night, not yet anyway. He should have easily buried that one chance, the fact they didn’t go into the break 2 up cost them a place in the final. Croatia were rattled first half and they had to finish it then, that’s history now.

[City123]

......and then Pickford goading Mandzukic when he was lying hurt on the floor. Very classy.

I was so glad it was Mandzukic who got the winner after the way Pickford goaded him when he was down injured

Did anyone else notice a lot of the England players doing the "hard man walk" to (presumably) try and intimidate the Croatians? Pathetic

[Divine Wright]

'Underestimated' Croatia stars twist the knife after beating England via @OnefootballEN. Read it here:

https://1.ftb.al/IICZQdNiuO

So it’s not only us who have a chip on our shoulder.

You never know, maybe english football and their media are genuinely irritating and arrogant after all.

[City123]

Kane proved his is not world class last night, not yet anyway. He should have easily buried that one chance, the fact they didn’t go into the break 2 up cost them a place in the final. Croatia were rattled first half and they had to finish it then, that’s history now.

The first half was far more even than the English media are portraying it, in truth Croatia were in control of the match from the 30th minute onwards

[SABlue]

I'm just glad the arrogant Tw@ts are out ....... Nothing against the players, aimed at the Fans and the media.

[BlueArmy 86]

Not impressed at all with that Modric guy. He may be brilliant for Real Madrid but seemed pretty ordinary tonight.

[bobh]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44811549
England facing FIFA investigation over chants;
Also FA fined £50 Grand when 3 players wore "unsponsored" socks