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Amen to that, brother!!Originally Posted by life on mars
You didn't say that though, you said:
Just to clarify, you just mean Madonna and Johnny Depp or all people who supported Obama?The rhetoric of hate began with Clinton and Obama supporters and every other loony leftie
Either way you look at it I don't think you aren't being objective. Are Madonna and Johnny Depp left wing? Is everyone who criticises Donald Trump likely to be left wing?
Jeepers ,folk need to get a grip and grasp the world of reality ,Thatvhers (Yes ironic) Cider helps .
Indeed
But it just appears to be en vogue to blame Trumpeasy pickings i guess
No he's not on this subject, the hatred of Jews is dreadful all over the world ,as we know ,we even see graves damaged in this country and language used on social media, yep it's 2018?
Hes an easy shot I guess , he's a dreadful awful man, that society has created and put in power, but people are equally horrible.Indeed
But it just appears to be en vogue to blame Trump
I think at some point a 70 year old man has to recognise who he is, how he got there and take responsibility for his words and actions. He uses deliberate strategies to wind people up - that's not society's fault.
Society created Trump?? You will have to explain that one.
Good luck with that.
Ah right. People don't hate Trump because he is a self-obsessed, incompetent, serial liar and poster boy of the most reactionary and vile elements of US society (including the KKK and 57 different varieties of Nazis and neo-Nazis). No they hate him because it is 'the popular thing to do'! I can't imagine how that view became so popular.
Apparently, the man who shot all of those people a few days ago sees Trump as part of the problem - he has not gone far enough in his opinion. So, in my view, to say that Trump is directly to blame for the shootings would be wrong, but indirectly to blame? I think that's different.
When I started this thread, I wondered whether I should put it on the politics board, but decided not to because I thought of the various shootings at schools in America down the years which did not appear to have a political motive behind them, but the way this thread has developed shows that I got it wrong - in these days it seems almost everything is political.
The Trump apologists in this thread (they can't stand him as a man of course) use the old excuse that the apparent perpetrators of the pipe bombs sent to individuals who have been critical of Donald Trump plan and the synagogue shootings are mentally unstable. To the extent that it looks downright odd to plaster your van in posters which would make you look guilty and to advertise what you were going to do on line, these actions, along with the intention to kill of course, do not mark either of them down as sane men.
In the interests of fairness, it should also be pointed out that not all politically motivated killers come from the right, but this article shows that in the last quarter of century in America there have been much more killings from the political right than there have been from the left.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspi...s-on-u-s-soil/
As for Donald Trump, I for one, find the implication carried by the "just blame it all on Trump" line insulting because it seems to me that it carries the assumption that critics of the man were unaware of him until he decided to run for President - that's not true in my case, I despised Donald Trump for all sorts of reasons for a couple of decades before that happened.
In my opinion, Trump cannot escape blame for what we've seen in America from Cesar Sayoc and Robert Bowers because he uses wholly inappropriate language for someone in the position of great power and influence he finds himself in. In my lifetime, the President of America I can remember who comes closest to comparing to Trump in character is Richard Nixon - in some ways, such a comparison is unfair on Trump mind because he has not been found guilty of the sort of criminal activities Nixon was. However, I saw a programme over the weekend where it was said that Nixon had his mind changed over the Vietnam war when he left the White House to discuss that situation with anti war protesters who were outside the Presidential residence - I find it impossible to believe that Trump would even contemplate doing such a thing.
Trump is unyielding in his opinions and gives no impression whatsoever that he could ever be talked around to a differing viewpoint on the core issues of his Presidency. One of the dangers of this approach is that weak and insecure people (nearly always men) can feel emboldened by such certainty as it helps to create a climate whereby potentially awful thoughts become transformed into actual deeds. We saw something similar in this country with the murder of Jo Cox during the referendum campaign two years ago and how anyone could be shocked by the rise in hate crime following that vote is beyond me given the tone used by some during that campaign.
Trump is either unaware of or doesn't care about the consequences which might follow from some of the things he says - to me, that marks him down as a dangerous and divisive man.
No one can say that the attack was Trump's fault alone.
But since entering the political sphere, he has called neo-nazis "fine people", called reporters "enemies of the people", called a congressman who assaulted a reporter "my kind of guy", offered to pay legal fees for his supporters who "knocked the crap" out of protesters, shared cgi videos of himself punching and hitting his opponents with golf balls, threatened that "second amendment people" would take matters into their own hands if he lost the election, legitimised hate publications like infowars, retweeted far right anti-muslim videos, said the previous president had founded the world's most famous terror group and seen a good deal of the people he has concentrated his attacks on receive bombs in the mail.
So I think when we see supporters from his side engaging in violent acts, we can hold him a little bit responsible.
95% of my colleagues are Americans. The company I work for is headquarters in Florida (I’m here now) but we have sites in 26 states so I see a huge cross section of American society every month. My colleagues are balanced and largely a great group of people. They don’t consider Trump a diplomat, but that’s less important to them. What they do think however is that from an economic perspective he is generally delivering against his word. The average person is seeing an improvement in their standard of living and their economy is recovering - people have more money and businesses are growing. I despise the man but only as a human being - taking guns away from Americans sadly is beyond any single person. I think he just accepts it so he can deliver his economic agenda
This is the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen. You go to Florida to a ****ing theme park resort and act like you’ve got the feel of a whole country. It’s like going to Disney land Paris and thinking you’ve got an idea of the situation in the Ukraine because you’ve chatted to a few holiday makers by the pool.
The second paragraph is complete and pure idiocy too, people don’t like trump because of what he spouts. It’s nothing to do with it being the popular thing to do, to reduce it to something as simple as that shows how little you actually grasp the situation.
I don’t think anyone is saying it’s Trump’s fault alone but he is a great mouthpiece for tipping lunatics like this over the edge. He is radicalising people and that guys van gave an insight into it.
Trump and his rhetoric are very dangerous and I can’t see how anyone can ignore that.
People wonder how Germany “fell“ to the nazis but the colleagues saying «*he’s no diplomat but he’s making us richer » is pretty scary imo. Obviously there’s a big jump between the 2 and I’m not comparing trump to Hitler but the whole I’m all right jack and indifference to it is how stuff like this escalates.
This is just not true, the economy recovered under Obama and it continues under Trump. However, after Tump's new tax laws it's the corporations and the people at the top who see most of the money. Healthcare is becoming more expenisive, petrol is over a dollr more a gallon than it was 2 years ago, social programs are being cut, regulations have been slashed in the name of of job creation but it's really in the name of corporate profits. Poluted rivers, selling goverment land to energy companies. Private prisons. Even detaining immigants. ($745 per person per day to private companies on the taxpayers dime) It's all a huge con.
My headquarters are in Minnesota
Most of my colleagues believe the economic growth in the US was just a continuation of the Obama policies and while give trump credit for continuing them wonder why a 14% cut in corporation tax was needed... the economy was already stimulated!
Adding 1.7 trillion dollars onto the deficit on an already stable and growing economy seems barmy. Especially when 90% of savings has gone to buying back shares in their own corporations. While the stock market has that kind of movement the markets react well .. but it’s all based on a deficit
Additionally you have a republican president giving hand outs to farmers, a trationaly no-no for republicans and lambasted by republicans when democratic administrations done similar things as ‘socialism’
To service the deficit the administration are attempting to cut social welfare funds
The whole trump economic success is based on a lie and a seeking out the poorest of the poor
Non partisan world economic experts expect a major US recession as the country comes to terms with a huge deficit, tax cuts that will not increase the working wages in line with inflation, trade wars that will eventually see jobs being lost and corporations gaining more and more power.
Time will tell but the economic arguments for trump seem very short sighted
Operation Crossfire did more to damage the perception of democracy than anything Trump will ever do.
And again today, Trump is tweeting that the Fake News Media are the true Enemy of the People. Continuing to fan the flames as best he can because it suits him.
I'm not defending Trump, but the news media are a disgrace. They don't report on politics, they are in the business of politics, pushing agengas, shaping narratives, etc.. And it's not only happening in America, it's everywhere.
He knows what he’s doing he always tweets anything about conspiracies because he knows it appeals to his base.
I used to think he did it because he was an idiot know I just think he does It because he has no morals and he knows it generates positivity among those who vote for him.
There's no doubt elements of the media push a narrative that will help them (more often that not it's the right that does this) but to suggest they're all a disgrace is disingenuous and misleading, and recently has become dangerous. If we were to have a purely fact based narrative a calmer voice is necessary.
He's clever cos he's got the left going insane, while the right are eating out of his hand. This leads me to believe he wants to destroy the leadership of left and their allies, no matter what the collateral damage is. I certainly haven't seen any attempts of appeasement to show this isn't his strategy. Someone above mentioned a civil war. I think it's already in progress, but it's a cold war not a hot war.
Both sides are at it, and it's not just in America, you only need to look at Brexit, and around Europe to see parallels. I believe we have reached a crossroads, and what we are now witnessing is an ideological war being played out amongst opposing factions of elites from around the world.
What evidence do you have that Trump has anything approximating a strategy. Despite regular suggestions from some quarters that he is the Gary Kasparov of 4d chess all the evidence suggests that he lives off his instincts. How else can you explain his ability to read Presidential statements prepared for him from a teleprompter and ad-lib something venal and contradictory a few hours later.
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